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  1. #1
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    Question ISTJ & enneagram 7 - do any of you exist?

    I'm just curious: Are any of you ISTJs also enneagram 7s? Because the two types seem like polar opposites, and the possibility of that combination existing intrigues me. If there are any of you out there (or if you know one), what are you/they like?
    Tell me everything.

    (Alternately, feel free to speculate on what that combination might look like. )

  2. #2
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    Hmm...I know there are quite a few ISTJs on this forum, but I'm not sure that I recall any being 7s.

  3. #3
    Wei 18 - Sie 39 agentwashington's Avatar
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    ...I can't believe I signed up for this forum just to reply to this post.

    ISTJ 7w6 Sp/Sx here. You may have to be more specific about your question because I would like to start somewhere, but without any pointers I'm not sure where to begin.

    They aren't exactly polar opposites unless you deal in archetypal thinking, which I imagine is the purpose of MBTI and Enneagrams. A lot of the discussion about enneagrams insist that 7s must act a certain way - when in fact they simply boil down to one or two questions, which are pure fear/drives. And I don't see why an Si dom can't pursue something so completely commonplace as primary drive, either.

    ...I have a feeling that what I just typed probably gave you some insight.

    Hmm...

    ...Update: Sorry for the necro. I assumed it was a new post from a live feed, which obviously was a wrong assumption after I made the reply. I'll leave it here in case.

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    Huzzah! After 6 months of wondering, I finally have an answer!

    Ahem.

    You are spot-on in pointing out archetypal thinking. After re-reading the descriptions of both types I can definitely see how they could work together, but I'm still curious about certain aspects that look like they would clash spectacularly. To use myself as an example: 7s have "extroverted energy" which is felt by everyone around me when I socialize, yet I am an introvert. INFPs prefer to focus on one "mission" or goal in life, yet my attention and interests are so scattered and varied that by my mid-twenties I still haven't figured out what direction to go in. INFPs are feelers (obviously), yet 7 is in the "thinking" center. And so on.

    Those are the kinds of things I'm wondering about: how do the supposedly "opposite" qualities of the archetypal ISTJ and 7 resolve themselves in your particular personality? Since you asked for specifics, here's a list of such opposites to get you started:
    - ISTJs are often described as very dutiful, while 7s are often described as free spirits.
    - 7s are thought to be undisciplined, while ISTJs are seen as the perfect models of discipline.
    - 7s generally prefer freedom over security, while ISTJs are often willing to sacrifice their freedom to maintain security.
    - ISTJs are stereotyped as "responsible adults" while 7s are stereotyped as "kids bouncing off the walls of a candy store on a sugar buzz"

    Feel free to add and discuss any other discrepancies or opposite traits you can think of. And thanks for the necro! I had just about lost hope that I would ever find an answer.

  5. #5
    Wei 18 - Sie 39 agentwashington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alasse View Post
    Huzzah! After 6 months of wondering, I finally have an answer!

    Ahem.

    You are spot-on in pointing out archetypal thinking. After re-reading the descriptions of both types I can definitely see how they could work together, but I'm still curious about certain aspects that look like they would clash spectacularly. To use myself as an example: 7s have "extroverted energy" which is felt by everyone around me when I socialize, yet I am an introvert. INFPs prefer to focus on one "mission" or goal in life, yet my attention and interests are so scattered and varied that by my mid-twenties I still haven't figured out what direction to go in. INFPs are feelers (obviously), yet 7 is in the "thinking" center. And so on.

    Those are the kinds of things I'm wondering about: how do the supposedly "opposite" qualities of the archetypal ISTJ and 7 resolve themselves in your particular personality? Since you asked for specifics, here's a list of such opposites to get you started:
    - ISTJs are often described as very dutiful, while 7s are often described as free spirits.
    - 7s are thought to be undisciplined, while ISTJs are seen as the perfect models of discipline.
    - 7s generally prefer freedom over security, while ISTJs are often willing to sacrifice their freedom to maintain security.
    - ISTJs are stereotyped as "responsible adults" while 7s are stereotyped as "kids bouncing off the walls of a candy store on a sugar buzz"

    Feel free to add and discuss any other discrepancies or opposite traits you can think of. And thanks for the necro! I had just about lost hope that I would ever find an answer.
    Ahhh hahhaha good god I never thought I'd see that dancing banana gif ever again

    I'll try to work out things on a case by case basis. Sorry about the formatting, quite frankly this interface isn't the most intuitive. Also, I should add that I'm still trying to figure out what my functional preferences are. I just kinda went with ISTJ because my functional stacks seem to fit the best here.

    To use myself as an example: 7s have "extroverted energy" which is felt by everyone around me when I socialize, yet I am an introvert.
    First and foremost, I think in order to socialise there has to be some kinda bonding process. I'm extremely introverted out of habit by now, but when I was younger I had this. extroverted streak going on. Trying new things, etc etc.
    . INFPs prefer to focus on one "mission" or goal in life, yet my attention and interests are so scattered and varied that by my mid-twenties I still haven't figured out what direction to go in. INFPs are feelers (obviously), yet 7 is in the "thinking" center. And so on.
    ...I'm a bit iffy about type descriptions. They make INFPs sound like unicorns or something. Also, that aux Ne should probably manifest itself in seeing multiple possibiliities. That's just my take on that, though.

    Alright, to the questions.

    Those are the kinds of things I'm wondering about: how do the supposedly "opposite" qualities of the archetypal ISTJ and 7 resolve themselves in your particular personality?

    They don't. :p If there's one thing I've come to conclude, it's that people, me included, are complicated creatures.

    - ISTJs are often described as very dutiful, while 7s are often described as free spirits.

    I'm a dutiful free spirit.
    Well, to be more specific in a way that language requires me to...
    I like having autonomy. I'm also very loyal towards people who are loyal towards me. I don't like being dutiful out of a sense of obligation. An example would be the case of family: I am loyal to family, because they have consistently been there for me, even though their treatment of me at times is also abyssmal.
    On a more practical level, is there anybody whose happiness is not intrinsically tied to their relations with others, even as relation of production in the commonwealth of societies or whatever the stuff there is? The way I see it, I am free, but bound to all of these things. I reject them out of impulse, but also, stay bound because there's literally no other way.

    - 7s are thought to be undisciplined, while ISTJs are seen as the perfect models of discipline.
    I'm not a model of discipline in any sense of the word other than self-discipline. I have high ethical standards to the point of paralysis. (I guess in Enneagram terms it probably sounds like disintegration. Which it probably is.)

    - 7s generally prefer freedom over security, while ISTJs are often willing to sacrifice their freedom to maintain security.
    Yes, and it's a constant tug-of-war. But, the way I see it, the core desire of 7 is to not be in deprivation., and they achieve it via planning. It's a very ISTJ thing to do, if you boil it down to that sense.
    On a more individual level, it's really more like there's two different impulses that I constantly have to choose between. I often make the wrong choices when I sacrifice my security for freedom, but at the same time staying in the same spot, in "security", would just cause me continued misery.
    If there is a choice to stay in the same spot where I have a reasonable amount of autonomy, freedom, access to personal pleasures, etc etc, I'd probably do it. And I wouldn't give it up. ever. But it's not a choice like that. It's always a choice between a rock and a hard place.

    - ISTJs are stereotyped as "responsible adults" while 7s are stereotyped as "kids bouncing off the walls of a candy store on a sugar buzz"
    Both stereotypes seem false on an empirical level. There is nobody who is one dimensional. xD
    ...But
    ... I'm often very reserved. At the same time, I have the impulse to try some new things, just for variety. There are times when if you asked me what I was doing, I won't have any answer. I'll just suck it up and take the responsibility.
    "You’re on Earth. There’s no cure for that."
    — Samuel Beckett, Endgame

    “This world is beautiful. People can love each other and live life respecting each other. Someday everyone will come to realize that and this will become a beautiful world full of only such people.”
    — Kino no Tabi

  6. #6
    Talk to me. Merced's Avatar
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    My big brother is an e7 ISTJ. I'll give him a call and see what he's all about.

    I also think the character Agent Washington is a 7w6 ISTJ, for what it's worth, @agentwashington.You should stay and discuss it with us!
    Likes yama liked this post

  7. #7
    Wei 18 - Sie 39 agentwashington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merced View Post
    My big brother is an e7 ISTJ. I'll give him a call and see what he's all about.

    I also think the character Agent Washington is a 7w6 ISTJ, for what it's worth, @agentwashington.You should stay and discuss it with us!
    ...looks around. coughs.

    I knew there was a reason I liked this character! But I pretty much typed him as 6w7 ISTJ instead of 7w6. The main reason was his focus on survival in the first seasons. Why do you see him as 7w6?

    Do let us know what your brother says, if you want to, of course.
    "You’re on Earth. There’s no cure for that."
    — Samuel Beckett, Endgame

    “This world is beautiful. People can love each other and live life respecting each other. Someday everyone will come to realize that and this will become a beautiful world full of only such people.”
    — Kino no Tabi

  8. #8
    Talk to me. Merced's Avatar
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    When you view 7s as 'discomfort avoiders' moreso than 'thrill seekers', they became a thousand times more human.

    I should also note that my bro's enneagram is 712, sx/sp. He is musical at heart and I find him to be very dutiful. He's enlisted in the Air Force and hates it with a fiery passion. I wonder just how psychologically sound military training is. Haven't met a single person who has walked out of it happy. He didn't have a good relationship with our Dad (an ISFP, I think? I don't really talk to Dad. I wouldn't know...) . I don't blame him. Dad would never do anything for him as a kid. When I asked about it, he immediately brought up a memory of him being 13 and asking to go to the movies so he could go on a date. Our dad agreed and when my brother asked for the money, the whole ten dollars, to actually buy a ticket, our dad yelled 'I don't have any money for you. Get a job.' and drove off. Come to think of it, there are a lot of interactions with our Dad that I could pin point the development of enneacores. His relationship with our Mom (an ESFP 6w5 9w8 4w5 sp/sx) is much better. They seem to have a good synergy. However, I think he gets annoyed with my mom's hastiness and her hotheadedness. He uses to have a girlfriend, one who he dated since 8th grade, that mooched off of him all the way until a few years after his basic training. He finally broke it off with her when he realized that he was helping her just so he could rather than because he loved her. I'm glad he eventually came to that conclusion. Now he spends his time travelling, soaking up that apparent mid-20s joy, and discovering more and more music.

    Quote Originally Posted by agentwashington View Post
    ...looks around. coughs.

    I knew there was a reason I liked this character! But I pretty much typed him as 6w7 ISTJ instead of 7w6. The main reason was his focus on survival in the first seasons. Why do you see him as 7w6?

    Do let us know what your brother says, if you want to, of course.
    I say 7w6 because pre-Epsilon Agent Washington seems relatively excited and unconcerned. Aspects of that still show up as he warms up to the Reds and Blues. Usually when I do an all out typing for a character, I have all this fancy bbcode and quotes and gifs, but eh. I personally believe that enneatype can change if something is traumatic enough. So David and Agent Washington could be argued as two different characters. There's a lot of RvB fans here on the site, I'll check if there is a typing thread for it up and I'll tag ya.
    MBTI: Te = Ne > Ni = Si > Se > Fi > Fe > Ti
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  9. #9
    Wei 18 - Sie 39 agentwashington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merced View Post
    When you view 7s as 'discomfort avoiders' moreso than 'thrill seekers', they became a thousand times more human.

    I should also note that my bro's enneagram is 712, sx/sp. He is musical at heart and I find him to be very dutiful. He's enlisted in the Air Force and hates it with a fiery passion. I wonder just how psychologically sound military training is. Haven't met a single person who has walked out of it happy. He didn't have a good relationship with our Dad (an ISFP, I think? I don't really talk to Dad. I wouldn't know...) . I don't blame him. Dad would never do anything for him as a kid. When I asked about it, he immediately brought up a memory of him being 13 and asking to go to the movies so he could go on a date. Our dad agreed and when my brother asked for the money, the whole ten dollars, to actually buy a ticket, our dad yelled 'I don't have any money for you. Get a job.' and drove off. Come to think of it, there are a lot of interactions with our Dad that I could pin point the development of enneacores. His relationship with our Mom (an ESFP 6w5 9w8 4w5 sp/sx) is much better. They seem to have a good synergy. However, I think he gets annoyed with my mom's hastiness and her hotheadedness. He uses to have a girlfriend, one who he dated since 8th grade, that mooched off of him all the way until a few years after his basic training. He finally broke it off with her when he realized that he was helping her just so he could rather than because he loved her. I'm glad he eventually came to that conclusion. Now he spends his time travelling, soaking up that apparent mid-20s joy, and discovering more and more music.



    I say 7w6 because pre-Epsilon Agent Washington seems relatively excited and unconcerned. Aspects of that still show up as he warms up to the Reds and Blues. Usually when I do an all out typing for a character, I have all this fancy bbcode and quotes and gifs, but eh. I personally believe that enneatype can change if something is traumatic enough. So David and Agent Washington could be argued as two different characters. There's a lot of RvB fans here on the site, I'll check if there is a typing thread for it up and I'll tag ya.
    I'm not from America; I won't know what the military training is like. My dad never served due to health reasons, and neither did I. Back at home, military training is compulsory and seen to be a bonding process for many dudes that age, and is a formative part of local culture. (I greatly despise it on both moral grounds and ... just in general as a form of social control; yet at the same time I can't say I disagree with the ruling party's rationale for having conscription. It's not like I get a say in it anyway.)

    That incident from your brother's memory seems quite formative. Honestly, pleasure and pain are such fundamental parts of molding people's psyches in formative years that it just seems ... not unreasonable to actually desire some kind of security for that.

    To be honest, I never really delved too deeply into enneagram and tritypes, because it seemed like a lot of work.

    And sure thing. I don't want to get too deeply into it either, because I'm just. tired. 7w6 seems like a reasonable thing even for recovery Wash, because... prison sounds like pain. The ultimate terror of e7.
    "You’re on Earth. There’s no cure for that."
    — Samuel Beckett, Endgame

    “This world is beautiful. People can love each other and live life respecting each other. Someday everyone will come to realize that and this will become a beautiful world full of only such people.”
    — Kino no Tabi

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