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[ISTJ] ISTJ Conversation Manipulation?

Misty_Mountain_Rose

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Jul 21, 2008
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INTJ
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4w5
Do you, as an ISTJ, often work deliberately in a conversation to lead the other person down a particular road to get specific answers? Do you 'set people up' in conversations?

If yes, do you see it as merely a way to lower the other persons defenses so they reveal more than they intended before they are aware of it, or do you do it as a kind of game?
 

Spectre of the spam

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Sep 2, 2008
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66
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Uh, not that i'm aware of for the most part. I can lead conversation down a tangent if i'm really part of the conversation though.
 

Recoleta

No me digas, che!
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
600
MBTI Type
ISXJ
Do you, as an ISTJ, often work deliberately in a conversation to lead the other person down a particular road to get specific answers? Do you 'set people up' in conversations?

If yes, do you see it as merely a way to lower the other persons defenses so they reveal more than they intended before they are aware of it, or do you do it as a kind of game?

Could I if I wanted to? I guess so. Do I? No.

Truthfully, I really have no idea what you're talking about. Whenever anyone has a conversation with someone aren't they always trying to elicit answers to certain questions simply by asking questions? Maybe they just ask questions because they are interested or want more information.

It seems to me like you're asking if we ask certain questions to get some sort of response or confession from another person -- kind of like questioning someone in court. Or like asking rhetorical questions.

Sure, I can lead someone in a conversation if I already know all the answers. I do this every day when I teach my Spanish class. However, do I do this in my regular life? No. How can I? I don't know what the other person is going to say. I can ask a question, but it's up to the other person to respond however they'd like.
 

dnivera

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May 4, 2008
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165
MBTI Type
ISTJ
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6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp
Nope. If I need to know something, I'll ask you. That includes personal questions.

Some people take offense at my asking straightforward questions about themselves, when I'm actually just curious and interested in learning more about the other person. (What do you do, what did you study, where do you live? etc...). If I get a feel that someone feels uncomfortable revealing a lot about themselves, I just don't go there and talk about something else. If I end up leading the conversation, it usually happens to be me asking straightforward questions like those. Then the other person might end up "revealing more than they intended." I guess it's my way of getting to know the other person, but very often the other person shuts up and doesn't want to participate. I'm very careful not to ask personal questions now that I'm older. Don't be offended, it's just my way of getting to know you.
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
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Aug 3, 2008
Messages
7,914
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INTP
I think TJ's try to want to come to conclusions and close doors more in conversation, I don't know about manipulation.
 

phoenix13

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Mar 31, 2008
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ENFP
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7w8
Every time I express a firm opinion, my ISTJ buddy will bring up trivial "but what about" exceptions just to tick me off. Often it's "but nothing is 100%, blah blah, how can you be so sure, blah blah." :rolleyes2: I'm an ENFP, do you honestly think I don't know that? I just tell her to shut it. That's conversational manipulation (and attempted emotional manipulation), and I ain't havin' it. :dry:

Seriously, though, that whole "let's argue the most absurd points possible just to see how angry the ENFP will get" shit is so insulting. I personally find it amoral (pissing someone off for your own amusement). My ISTJ has knocked that off after confrontation because she's awesome like that... but those who don't, or those who currently do... cut that shit out.

EDIT: Sorry for getting vaguely off topic.
 

phoenix13

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btw, I've had someone who I'm pretty sure was an ISTJ walk me through a series of questions with the purpose of leading me to his pre-ordained answer. That's totally legitimate. He's basically walking me through his own reasoning and making me feel like I did it myself. I guess that could be seen as condescending, but I don't think that's the intent. OK, I think I'll stop here.
 

INA

now! in shell form
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
3,195
MBTI Type
intp
It was funny watching an ENFP with an ISTJ trying to talk some sense into her. Basically, the ENFP had a habit of confusing her feelings with facts, so she would often talk out of her ass. The ISTJ would ask her questions obviously to have her think it through, and the the ENFP would gradually build to a blow up.
Good times :cheers:
 

Misty_Mountain_Rose

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INTJ
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I wonder if its just the INTJ impression at being asked such direct questions that lead to the whole 'how did they extract this from me... it must be deliberate' kind of thinking.

My ISTJ friends can pull things out of me that I never intended to reveal with very pointed and seemingly progressive questioning that gets past the normal defenses... maybe because its in such a logical and direct manner? Maybe it just appeals to my penchant for logic and when they approach it in such an analytical manner my responses are almost automatic, without the feeling that some types seem to be looking for.

Its unnerving and piques my interest at how they do it. A kind of curiosity and mild distrust... but then they start questioning again and I start answering without a thought.
 

TickTock

Mud and rain and chaos...
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
948
MBTI Type
INFP
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4w3
Do you, as an ISTJ, often work deliberately in a conversation to lead the other person down a particular road to get specific answers? Do you 'set people up' in conversations?

If yes, do you see it as merely a way to lower the other persons defenses so they reveal more than they intended before they are aware of it, or do you do it as a kind of game?

I know an ISTJ who has done this and he wouldn't admit that he does. The reason being in my opinion is to validate his own view so he uses this method that is motivated by his need to prove himself.

I know an INTJ who has admitted to me that he does it.
 

phoenix13

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It was funny watching an ENFP with an ISTJ trying to talk some sense into her. Basically, the ENFP had a habit of confusing her feelings with facts, so she would often talk out of her ass. The ISTJ would ask her questions obviously to have her think it through, and the the ENFP would gradually build to a blow up.
Good times :cheers:

That's legitimate. That's a give and take convo. for the ENFP's benefit. What my friend did was argue trivialities that she knew were bull just to watch me get exhasperated and explode. That's emotional manipulation and super lame.

EDIT: You might say it's in-person trolling.
 

dnivera

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Yeah, that's kind of stupid and pointless. You should probably just ignore her and change the subject. I don't do that myself, but when I'm in a group of NFs (pretty common among social scientists in college) and I raise a "trivial" or "detail-oriented" kind of point I just get ignored.
 

Hexis

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I do that all the time, and personaly from my own experinces with them (one of them being a best friend of mine and us actually haveing conversations about this exact topic with another INTJ), I dont think there capable of it if even percieving the ability to do so. No slight against ISTJs, I just dont think you can.
 

ArbiterDewey

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Feb 3, 2008
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ISTJ
I do that all the time, and personaly from my own experinces with them (one of them being a best friend of mine and us actually haveing conversations about this exact topic with another INTJ), I dont think there capable of it if even percieving the ability to do so. No slight against ISTJs, I just dont think you can.

Since I believe I'm the one mentioned in the above quote, I agree with Hexis. Hell...even if it's not me, I agree. Rarely if ever am I able to manipulate a conversation. My best conscious attempts are if I'm not offending women, especially girlfriends (something that is far too easy to do sometimes), or when helping someone through a rough time (ex. One of my friend's mother is dying. I lead the conversation "away" from any potentially hurtful side-tangents, but I never lead "to" something.)

My thoughts.
 

Fuent

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ENTP
I do that all the time, and personaly from my own experinces with them (one of them being a best friend of mine and us actually haveing conversations about this exact topic with another INTJ), I dont think there capable of it if even percieving the ability to do so. No slight against ISTJs, I just dont think you can.

Stop revealing those secrets damn it.
 

fishingdude

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Nov 15, 2008
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ISTJ
Do you, as an ISTJ, often work deliberately in a conversation to lead the other person down a particular road to get specific answers? Do you 'set people up' in conversations?

If yes, do you see it as merely a way to lower the other persons defenses so they reveal more than they intended before they are aware of it, or do you do it as a kind of game?

I absolutely manipulate conversations (at work mostly). I don't make them say things they don't want to say, I'm just always steering the conversation in a direction that gets me what I want, the facts. I know most people like to talk just to be talking. I don't, and that's why I try to cut straight to the point of why I'm talking to you in the first place.

Yes, sometimes it can be a game. I'm not easy to read and people always think I'm serious. For this reason, people use me as a way to vent and sometimes this leads them to revealing things they wouldn't normally reveal. All I have to do is listen, nod my head, and occasionly ask a question. It's like they see me as preist during confession.
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
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sp/so
I think I see where you're going there. With people who like to wander off in conversation, instead of stopping everything abruptly and saying "let's talk about this, not that," I connect what they're saying to the area I wanted to discuss. That's only sometimes, don't know how subtle it actually is to others, and it often doesn't work anyway, especially when it's too subtle.
 

King sns

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All the ISTJ's I know are pretty simple as far as communication goes. By "simple" I mean strait forward and to the point. I don't think they would be very good at manipulation.
 

lorkan

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Nov 10, 2008
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INFJ
When talking to ISTJ's and they ask questions like "are you sure?" or say things like "what the hell are you talking about?", they can litterally make me shake or make me pass out of frightenness. It makes me quite unstable and say things all the time that isnt ment to be said. Though I understand It's all about when they sound sure that makes me insecure, even on occasions when they've had wrong.
I think Si as a very first function coupled with TJ makes a man do what makes sence, and confidence seems (absurdly much) important for sensors.

So when they ask these specific questions that you really are never prepared for you could either train you confidence and direct the discussion back on track or tell the truth and be insulted or ruled.

I've gotten pretty tired of my brothers moral questioning that I just started to point out his logical inconsistencies and we've made eachother angry on daily basis, when we were younger.
 

raz

Let's make this showy!
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Nov 11, 2008
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LoLz
I was getting change for my register the other night, and decided to write down the amount I wanted wrong intentionally just to see if my manager would catch it. He did when I told him the amount he gave me back was wrong, but he didn't correct me on it. I was like, WTF.

I was talking to a girl I work with earlier tonight, intentionally asking her questions that would help me verify her type. I asked her about her classes, probed about certain areas, asking her her opinion of certain things to see her viewpoint. I'm pretty sure she's an ENFJ, now. It's amazing how easily you can get an extravert to talk, heh.
 
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