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  1. #11
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF3157 View Post
    It was funny watching an ENFP with an ISTJ trying to talk some sense into her. Basically, the ENFP had a habit of confusing her feelings with facts, so she would often talk out of her ass. The ISTJ would ask her questions obviously to have her think it through, and the the ENFP would gradually build to a blow up.
    Good times
    That's legitimate. That's a give and take convo. for the ENFP's benefit. What my friend did was argue trivialities that she knew were bull just to watch me get exhasperated and explode. That's emotional manipulation and super lame.

    EDIT: You might say it's in-person trolling.

  2. #12
    Senior Member dnivera's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's kind of stupid and pointless. You should probably just ignore her and change the subject. I don't do that myself, but when I'm in a group of NFs (pretty common among social scientists in college) and I raise a "trivial" or "detail-oriented" kind of point I just get ignored.
    Si>Ti>Te>Ne>Fe>Ni>Fi>Se

    Introverted (I) 60% Extroverted (E) 40%
    Sensing (S) 56.25% Intuitive (N) 43.75%
    Thinking (T) 61.29% Feeling (F) 38.71%
    Judging (J) 71.88% Perceiving (P) 28.13%

  3. #13
    Senior Member Hexis's Avatar
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    I do that all the time, and personaly from my own experinces with them (one of them being a best friend of mine and us actually haveing conversations about this exact topic with another INTJ), I dont think there capable of it if even percieving the ability to do so. No slight against ISTJs, I just dont think you can.
    SDMF

  4. #14
    Senior Member ArbiterDewey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    I do that all the time, and personaly from my own experinces with them (one of them being a best friend of mine and us actually haveing conversations about this exact topic with another INTJ), I dont think there capable of it if even percieving the ability to do so. No slight against ISTJs, I just dont think you can.
    Since I believe I'm the one mentioned in the above quote, I agree with Hexis. Hell...even if it's not me, I agree. Rarely if ever am I able to manipulate a conversation. My best conscious attempts are if I'm not offending women, especially girlfriends (something that is far too easy to do sometimes), or when helping someone through a rough time (ex. One of my friend's mother is dying. I lead the conversation "away" from any potentially hurtful side-tangents, but I never lead "to" something.)

    My thoughts.
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
    --Isaac Asimov, Salvor Hardin in "Foundation"

    Nothing is worse than active ignorance.
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    Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
    --Isaac Asimov

  5. #15
    Senior Member Fuent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    I do that all the time, and personaly from my own experinces with them (one of them being a best friend of mine and us actually haveing conversations about this exact topic with another INTJ), I dont think there capable of it if even percieving the ability to do so. No slight against ISTJs, I just dont think you can.
    Stop revealing those secrets damn it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    INTP... I think not.

  6. #16
    Member fishingdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    Do you, as an ISTJ, often work deliberately in a conversation to lead the other person down a particular road to get specific answers? Do you 'set people up' in conversations?

    If yes, do you see it as merely a way to lower the other persons defenses so they reveal more than they intended before they are aware of it, or do you do it as a kind of game?
    I absolutely manipulate conversations (at work mostly). I don't make them say things they don't want to say, I'm just always steering the conversation in a direction that gets me what I want, the facts. I know most people like to talk just to be talking. I don't, and that's why I try to cut straight to the point of why I'm talking to you in the first place.

    Yes, sometimes it can be a game. I'm not easy to read and people always think I'm serious. For this reason, people use me as a way to vent and sometimes this leads them to revealing things they wouldn't normally reveal. All I have to do is listen, nod my head, and occasionly ask a question. It's like they see me as preist during confession.

  7. #17
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    I think I see where you're going there. With people who like to wander off in conversation, instead of stopping everything abruptly and saying "let's talk about this, not that," I connect what they're saying to the area I wanted to discuss. That's only sometimes, don't know how subtle it actually is to others, and it often doesn't work anyway, especially when it's too subtle.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  8. #18
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    All the ISTJ's I know are pretty simple as far as communication goes. By "simple" I mean strait forward and to the point. I don't think they would be very good at manipulation.

  9. #19
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    When talking to ISTJ's and they ask questions like "are you sure?" or say things like "what the hell are you talking about?", they can litterally make me shake or make me pass out of frightenness. It makes me quite unstable and say things all the time that isnt ment to be said. Though I understand It's all about when they sound sure that makes me insecure, even on occasions when they've had wrong.
    I think Si as a very first function coupled with TJ makes a man do what makes sence, and confidence seems (absurdly much) important for sensors.

    So when they ask these specific questions that you really are never prepared for you could either train you confidence and direct the discussion back on track or tell the truth and be insulted or ruled.

    I've gotten pretty tired of my brothers moral questioning that I just started to point out his logical inconsistencies and we've made eachother angry on daily basis, when we were younger.

  10. #20
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    I was getting change for my register the other night, and decided to write down the amount I wanted wrong intentionally just to see if my manager would catch it. He did when I told him the amount he gave me back was wrong, but he didn't correct me on it. I was like, WTF.

    I was talking to a girl I work with earlier tonight, intentionally asking her questions that would help me verify her type. I asked her about her classes, probed about certain areas, asking her her opinion of certain things to see her viewpoint. I'm pretty sure she's an ENFJ, now. It's amazing how easily you can get an extravert to talk, heh.

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