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  1. #1
    Senior Member great_bay's Avatar
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    Default ESFJ and ENFJ relation with Te function

    According to the eight function, these types both have Te as their 8th function. It's usually not well-liked and may come across as foreign. What I noticed in ESFJ users is that they may not pay attention to Te in favor of emotional harmony. What is your relation with Te function by TJ types?

  2. #2
    climb on Showbread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by great_bay View Post
    According to the eight function, these types both have Te as their 8th function. It's usually not well-liked and may come across as foreign. What I noticed in ESFJ users is that they may not pay attention to Te in favor of emotional harmony. What is your relation with Te function by TJ types?
    I'm a little confused by the question. Are you asking about my relationship with TJs? Or how I see myself using the Te function?
    Friends, waffles, work

    "The problem is, when you depend on a substitute for love, you can never get enough" - Louis Cozolino

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    *Gryffindor*


  3. #3
    Senior Member great_bay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    I'm a little confused by the question. Are you asking about my relationship with TJs? Or how I see myself using the Te function?
    Both

  4. #4
    Sweet Summer Dik Dik yama's Avatar
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    I get along well with most TJs. Almost all of my friends are ISTJs or INTJs. Only very rarely do our Te and Fe clash. We have a mutual respect and understanding for each other. As for the second question, I have no idea.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default ESFJ and ENFJ relation with Te function

    This is a tricky puzzle.

    Both use F first and both use T last of the four function F T S N .

    Perhaps there are two things happening Te is being influenced by. S and N the second and third preferences for the ESFJ and ENFJ.

    I place ENFJ at point:2 and I place ESFJ at point:8 and there is a line between both points. The second preference for each of these two types is N for ENFJ and S for ESFJ.

    The ENFJ is I see as being the 2w1 energy and the ESFJ is I see being the 8w9 energy.

    There are four steps from point two to point eight and four steps from point eight to point two.

    Both types seem to have some difficulty at the agenda level critically thinking wile relating to now time narrative and human activities.

    There can be said to be a relay between the two points that travels in two directions.

    Point eight via the line to point two and point two via the line to point eight and from point eight to point two in four steps via: 8-9-1-2 and from point two to point eight in four steps via: 2-1-9-8.

    It is also interesting that the are six placings between the eight points: 2-3-4-5-6-7-8 or conversely if that is the right word 8-7-6-5-4-3-2.

    So is it a question of a difficulty balancing the six instinctual variant heads with the eight cognitive processes that leads to these two types, posable difficulties with Te?

    Or is it an other two part four part eight part mechanism blocking and manifesting a fixation between the four points of
    2-1-9-8 , 8-9-1-2 ,
    8-2-1-9 , 2-8-9-1 .
    That manifests a use? ..of the Te for both ENFJ and ESFJ with a bias toward overcompensating the visceral ,that manifests an overcompensation that discourses Te as a sudo replacement for the six point: 3-4-5-6-7 or 7-6-5-4-3

    The instinctual energy of point nine is think and the fixation for these two types to get court up in is the relay between the four points 8-9-1-2 or conversely 2-1-9-8 and over compensates. If we acknowledge that at points one and two we find Feeling linked with point six Feel an instinctual superego activity, and if also we acknowledge that at points seven and eight we find Sensing linked with point three Sense an instinctual ego activity, we can see how these two types the 2w1 enfj and 8w9 esfj can get locked into a fix, because at points two and one the ESFJ gains feeling to balance its its sense at point eight, and sometimes things work in four's the point seven Sensing activity mood is substituted in a trade of for agendas needs with Te Think at point nine. There will be counter balances at points 5 and 4 that work with point three and point six and there four part eight part two part components.

    Same will apply with the working of the 2w1 ENFJ.
    And another layer of three into four can be applied relating to the line from 8 to 2 and 2 to 8 integration/stress or disintegration and neurosis/freedom the point of integration has two out puts freedom and neurosis. This complexity has structure that I have no framework for at this point it most likely flows past to the next fourth the Point of stress or disintegration of the Stress Point counted back seven places to the conches point of type. 2-1-9- 8 -7-6-5 the eighth place would be mood at point three for the ENFJ. Structure gets complex but the point is there is a flip side to the point of integration Neurosis the will of the symbiotic needs egoic mind fixated need/needs frustrated unmet.

    Some how there is or maybe an overcompensation of Te activity within An instinctual activity of relating agenda and mood via Think -(conches) at Point Nine. Point 4 and 5 or Points 5 and 4 may have a link with T and Ti because point 4 has a line connection with point 2 and point 5 has a line connection with point 8.

    The rest you can work on working out for your self if you are curious.

    But the point is that there are cemeteries and nuances at work between all nine points of the enneagram, and there is the principle of unification but I did not directly touch upon that component. To do so would posablely require looking at E I J P (IPEJ) (IEPJ) (IEJP) for all four points 8 2 1 9 and simply the four functions: I E P and J And the hole brain model. Note that these four may simply be my four settings but I think they are archetype universal for four Points 2, 1, 9, 8.

    A states I can favour is IEPJ my nine ness. I also can favour another form of my nine ness TNSF and in my freer state NTSFP with F in quadrant C and P in quadrant A and C and N in quadrant D and S in quadrant B quadrant A and quadrant C seem to be related to Sp (quadrant:A) and So (quadrant:C) the instincts I move to as SX with in the triangle I orientate preferable within ( points 4 and 1 and 7 ) Sx/Sp , Sp/So , So/Sx Instinctual Triangle, but these things are fluid and I simply provide a snap shot of two states of being for me. Like all Persons I am of all nine points and all 18 subtypes move within Me, the hole-enneagram is intact ,and complete at the deepest levels of Being. Posable as a multiplicity held between the duality of the sub conchs and u conches co connection and separation with each other and the conches mind as a three part two the part interconnection. Two path un conches to sub conches and four path conches to sub conches conches to sub conches conches to un conches un conches to conches. A Triangle.

    The thing to recognise is that functions I and E and P and J are linked to the four quadrants of the hole brain model as are the four functions S. N T F.

    And the hole brain model moves in more that A to D to B to C and A to B to C to D , when an individual finds freedom the process start at quadrant D to A to B to C this works in unison with the Hole Brain Central Point and all four quadrants relay bias free with clear interconnectivity of movement movements orientations including all four quadrants A B C D independently free but never separate from the central point. The Observer Observed duality within awareness maybe understood through this paradigm of nine parts five parts Observer four parts Observed.

    4 + 5 = 9

    In this context the decimal point ten system runs 0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9

    The zero is never hidden from the sum if we recognise the unity of the circle.

    1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0
    0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9
    Last edited by KitchenFly; 04-20-2015 at 08:13 AM.

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    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default ESFJ and ENFJ relation with Te function

    Quote Originally Posted by great_bay View Post
    According to the eight function, these types both have Te as their 8th function. It's usually not well-liked and may come across as foreign. What I noticed in ESFJ users is that they may not pay attention to Te in favor of emotional harmony. What is your relation with Te function by TJ types?
    I may have got a bit deep in the post above but I get along well with people who express TJ. And I find the healthy expression of Te ok/good and interesting ,it is not the predominate global view for me but it is not alien to me. Te has many faces expressed though all nine energies. So some expressions are dim within my personal Logos, but the general of Te is ok and appreciated when mirrored to me. I like Te.
    Last edited by KitchenFly; 04-21-2015 at 05:40 AM.

  7. #7
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Generally speaking I like Te and I work well with it. I do better with Te doms as opposed to Te aux as a general rule since the former is more frequently vocal, quick, and forthright. The latter tends to withhold which can be an issue with me.

    The key is I need to find common ground with Te. Really stubborn "exactly my way or the highway" Te doms can be a BAD mix with me because I will get just as equally stubborn and resolute in response and it can get extremely contentious bordering on overtly hostile and threatning. If there is common ground though, and we can look past detailed differences it ends up like "sure, you'll get to where we need to be, have at it!" and we'll get each other in a broad sense. I really appreciate their ability to just get shit done as it needs to, and they'll often drag me along with it showing me that it's going to work out. Generally they appreciate that I'll see holes (subjective Fe stuff they never even think about) that could render what they do ineffective.

    One of my good friends is an ENTJ and when we work together we make quite the team.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
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    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari

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  8. #8
    climb on Showbread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by great_bay View Post
    Both
    Sorry it took me so long to come back this! Life has been busy and I wanted to give a longish answer.

    I generally find Te and Fe to be extremely similar, at least in execution. Motivation for action seems to be what is different, but I often find that I plan/process pretty similarly to Te-doms. @EJCC even jokingly said she can't really tell us apart anymore. We tend to have slightly different priorities though. I think Te-doms take more delight in pristine execution and planning, I'm generally more concerned with outcome even if getting there is messy. It can always be cleaned up later, and I'm pretty good at letting go of details if necessary. I also tend to put more emphasis on the feelings (naturally). How will I feel if things go this way, or what will the impact on my wellbeing be if this falls through, etc. On cognitive functions tests I generally score about the same on Te/Ti, although I have an easier time recognizing when I am using Ti.

    In terms of relationships with Te, my dad is an ESTJ. I also dated an ISTJ. I have a pretty good relationship with my dad, when we disagree it's generally because I think his priorities are wrong and I don't like the way that impact myself or others. For example, he's a workaholic. He has consistently prioritized success at work over family time. This is really complicated though because he works for his dad, his dad is a workaholic, etc. We're just not going to go there. Anyways, ISTJ and I got along extremely well, we mostly broke up because of distance. It would have been interesting to see how that would have played out on it's own. I don't know if it was the common Si or what, but we just processed similarly and ended up on the wavelength a lot. Granted, I am much better at navigating emotional situations and working through my feelings.
    Friends, waffles, work

    "The problem is, when you depend on a substitute for love, you can never get enough" - Louis Cozolino

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    *Gryffindor*

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  9. #9
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    ^ Not an ESFJ or an ENFJ, but just popping in to say to @Hard and @Showbread that the feeling is mutual. A lot of times I feel like Fe and Te DO use a lot of the same tactics, but with a totally different strategy -- so my attitude is also something along the lines of "well as long as you make the right choices in the end, use whatever strange and foreign logic you need to".

    It really can be deceptive. I've mistaken ExFJs for ExTJs plenty of times, when I didn't know them well. It's only when you dig deeper, and find the tell-tale signs of Fe (detached and strategic focus on emotions, people, and the interpersonal realm; tendency to read the impersonal as personal) or Te (detached and strategic focus on facts, concepts, and the impersonal realm; tendency to read the personal as impersonal) that they become easier to differentiate.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!
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