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Thread: SJand NJ issues

  1. #1
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Default SJand NJ issues

    I work with and am totally surrounded by SJs much of the time. They appreciate my talent, to a degree, in that they are astonished at the particular skill set I possess, but when they ask me to do a project, they expect it to be a microwave dinner, fully cooked in a brief amount of time. When I compose a song they expect it to be performance ready right out the door. They have little time to listen to and work with me on delving out parts, etc. When I paint a mural they want an entire elementary school done in just days. Writing books? They have no idea how long it takes.

    My question, how do I do a great job while they snark at me to hurry up? None of the ones I work with can do what I can do, yet they bark orders at me like I'm expendable. When I try to explain the logistics of why it isn't possible for me to do it their way, they often have no time to listen and some of them walk away while I'm in mid-sentence, which I hate. It's excessively rude. (Mostly ESFJs and ESTJs do this.)

    So, I'd really like to hear from SJs how do I make this better? I mean it's not a problem for them, except for the fact that if I worked around the clock, I'd still never finish fast enough for them. Advice, por favor.

    So, bottom line....I need time for the creative process and the physical production of projects. They want the projects to be like "whatever else they saw and liked." They want it perfect and they want it yesterday.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  2. #2
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene
    They have no idea how long it takes.
    This is the crux of the problem. Perhaps, you should send each SJ a list of rough guestimates of how long each project takes and ask them to adjust their expectations accordingly.
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  3. #3
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    This is a case where you just have to put your foot down. Don't bother pandering to their impatience with detailed explanations - you don't have time. When they ask you for something, give them a realistic estimate of how long it will take, and that's it. If they don't like it, they can go to someone else. If they agree and then start to pester, don't tolerate it.

    This is just an extension of saying "no" when you need to, and setting boundaries.

    FWIW, I have seldom had this trouble with SJs, my present manager being an unfortunate exception.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Thanks, @Tellenbach but it doesn't work that way. I never know exactly how long one section will take me. It depends on a lot of variables that are beyond my control.

    So, @CoriolisI just told them that it'll be done when it's done. I told them that if they want it look good, then it might take awhile. They didn't like it, but that's the answer I gave them. I hope it gets better with your present manager.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  5. #5
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Appeal to a job well done that will benefit the entire system. To do so may take time that goes beyond any schedule. Say, "You're either interested in an excellent result or you're not. What's it going to be?" Then wait. He who speaks first, loses. Finish with, " If there's nothing else, I have my work to get back to." Extend your hand and shake theirs firmly. It will let them know you mean business, and the pressure in your handshake speaks volumes - whether you're a man or a woman. Don't allow your hand to be a wet noodle. Ever.

    You are now in the driver's seat.

    Good luck.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Thanks, @Jaguar

    Just wondering, are you an SJ?
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  7. #7
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Thanks, @Jaguar

    Just wondering, are you an SJ?

    Christ, no. I'm just used to dealing with SJs in business.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Christ, no. I'm just used to dealing with SJs in business.
    LOL! I totally understand. Thanks. And thanks for the advice.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  9. #9
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    I work with and am totally surrounded by SJs much of the time. They appreciate my talent, to a degree, in that they are astonished at the particular skill set I possess, but when they ask me to do a project, they expect it to be a microwave dinner, fully cooked in a brief amount of time. When I compose a song they expect it to be performance ready right out the door. They have little time to listen to and work with me on delving out parts, etc. When I paint a mural they want an entire elementary school done in just days. Writing books? They have no idea how long it takes.

    ...So, I'd really like to hear from SJs how do I make this better? I mean it's not a problem for them, except for the fact that if I worked around the clock, I'd still never finish fast enough for them. Advice, por favor.

    So, bottom line....I need time for the creative process and the physical production of projects. They want the projects to be like "whatever else they saw and liked." They want it perfect and they want it yesterday.
    As an SJ and as someone who works in an ESTx-style office environment (GET IT DONE NOW!!), I suggest that you lay down ground rules IMMEDIATELY. They know you're the expert, so when they tell you their expectations, refute them before they get a chance to settle in. If they question you, appeal to Si ("From my experience as the expert here, it should usually take approximately X amount of time because of Y factors").

    My question, how do I do a great job while they snark at me to hurry up? None of the ones I work with can do what I can do, yet they bark orders at me like I'm expendable. When I try to explain the logistics of why it isn't possible for me to do it their way, they often have no time to listen and some of them walk away while I'm in mid-sentence, which I hate. It's excessively rude. (Mostly ESFJs and ESTJs do this.)
    The more you lay down the rules, the less likely they will be to do this. Their rudeness is out of ignorance and their own Si experience. Their Si database will shift, the more evidence you give that their expectations are baseless.

    As for walking away mid-sentence -- firstly, that's horrendously rude and I am angry on your behalf. Secondly, I think if I were you, I'd yell at them to wait as soon as they start to walk away. In an office full of pushy people, a lot of times you need to be equally pushy in order to get their attention. My boss is an ESTP so I have some experience with this.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Appeal to a job well done that will benefit the entire system. To do so may take time that goes beyond any schedule. Say, "You're either interested in an excellent result or you're not. What's it going to be?" Then wait. He who speaks first, loses. Finish with, " If there's nothing else, I have my work to get back to." Extend your hand and shake theirs firmly. It will let them know you mean business, and the pressure in your handshake speaks volumes - whether you're a man or a woman. Don't allow your hand to be a wet noodle. Ever.

    You are now in the driver's seat.

    Good luck.
    Yes definitely. This is exactly the kind of push-back I was referring to.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    If people are being difficult about something that they want you to do, you need to ask them if they want you to do it or not(saying the not besides just asking if they want it to be done adds weight to it), and when they reply yes, you just tell them what(time, resources, whatever) you need in order to do it. If they are being difficult again, just ask them again if they want it to be done or not. Repeat when ever necessary. If they reply wit no, be glad you dont need to do it with people annoying you.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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