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  1. #71
    Senior Member seeker22's Avatar
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    I am an ENFP... Was with an ISFJ for 5 years right down to owning a home together and everything... the whole nine yards...

    Some general themes of the relationship - which by the way, I wound up having to end it because I became too unhappy - even though I REALLY wanted it to work...

    1) ISFJ tendency toward pessimism, complaining, buzzkill, negative attitude:

    Me: I'm so excited we're buying a home!!!
    She: "Now we have a mortgage payment and property taxes."

    Me: "I can't wait to take the boat out it's going to be so fun!"
    She: "Now we have to make sure it's insured and pay for gas."

    Me: "I love our new baby kitten she's adorable!!"
    She: "Now we have a litter box to clean and vet bills."

    Me: "I'm so excited that our friends are coming over today!!"
    She: "Now we have to buy food and drinks and clean up afterward."

    One day I gave her a stuffed Eeyore animal from Winnie the Pooh to try and make a point in a humorous way. She always saw the glass as "half empty." Everything in her life went through that negative filter. =(

    2) She wanted a HELPMATE. I wanted a MINDMATE.
    Me: "What do you think about ______? I wonder if ______?"
    She: "This place is a mess. I do everything around here."
    (Keep in mind "mess" to her would be clean by anyone else's standards and she would fail to recognize or acknowledge all the ways I contributed to the relationship and then give constant guilt trips)

    3) ISFJ insecurity, paranoia, and accusations of affairs:
    She was jealous of friends, colleagues, family members, mailmen, neighbors, store clerks, the realtor - ANYONE I gave a crumb of attention to was now "the enemy" in her eyes. Everyone felt like a threat to her. She was very controlling and possessive - so to make her happy I stopped hanging out with anyone or interacting with anyone for fear of her wrath. I started realizing I was living in prison and losing myself. She was very very needy and clingy and would get very upset if I wanted to do something without her.

    4) Criticism, moodiness, unanticipated and easily triggered BLOW UPS where they annihilate you and rehash everything wrong you've ever done (in their eyes) and then bring you a pizza later with "I'm Sorry" written in pepperoni and profusely apologize. Blame shifting: nothing was ever her fault and I was the root cause of all evil at all times.
    She: "Get in here."
    Me: "Ok, what's up?" <walk into kitchen>
    She: "There are four cans of food missing from the pantry."
    Me: "Yes I donated them to the can drive for poor kids."
    She: "WHAT is WRONG with you!!!?" <flings my backpack across room and storms off, begins silent treatment>

    5) Focus on problems not solutions:
    She: "I'm sick of doing everything around here."
    Me: "Let me pay someone to come and clean the house once a week."
    She: "That's a waste of money and a ridiculous idea."
    Me: "Well how about I treat you to dinner once a week then?"
    She: "I'm not your slave don't treat me like one."
    Me: "Ok how about we make a chore table and take turns?"
    She: "I'm not in kindergarten I don't need a chore table."
    Me: *sigh*

    6) Lack of conversational skills or participation: We could not hold a conversation to save our lives. <crickets chirping> I would say something and she would stay quiet. Some might mistake this for her being a "good listener." But I say NO. She never gave any feedback or contributed to the conversation- she didn't participate or add to what was being said. I was BORED to tears. She never had anything interesting, thought provoking, or engaging to say. The two times of year she did I got all excited and wrote it in my journal to cling to.

    Basically I couldn't do ANYTHING right in her eyes. I tried for five years and finally it became too exhausting. It felt like I was responsible for her happiness and I could never make her happy because it was like a bottomless pit - it would never be enough. I just couldn't please her.

    The lack of intellectual stimulation and the sheer quantity and degree of boredom was painful.

    To her credit - she DID cook and clean. But I felt like I lived with a statue - and a critical one at that!

  2. #72

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    Definitely sounds like an unhealthy ISFJ. The normal ones are not like that. Sounds like you're better off now.

  3. #73
    Senior Member seeker22's Avatar
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    Thank you for confirming this is an unhealthy version of an ISFJ! I look forward to having a corrective experience with one! =)

  4. #74
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    honestly, I don't think I could have lasted 5 years with someone like that. When someone says the things she did to you, I'll just shut down and not do any thing. I figure, they're going to be unhappy with what I do no matter what, so I'm just going to exert the least amount of energy.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  5. #75
    Senior Member seeker22's Avatar
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    Yes many people have told me that same thing... Thanks for the validation... Sometimes the ENFP trait of looking for and focusing on the best in others can keep us trapped in unhealthy relationships... gotta work on that...

  6. #76
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seeker22 View Post
    Yes many people have told me that same thing... Thanks for the validation... Sometimes the ENFP trait of looking for and focusing on the best in others can keep us trapped in unhealthy relationships... gotta work on that...
    Yeah I can relate to that not to well, but someone. I lived with unhealthy ISFJ last year and it was torture, but I kept saying that once the lease is up I'm gone. I ended up moving out two months early and paying double rent. But at first I thought well she just has issues, who doesn't? she's fine. But then I realized that no matter what I did she would be negative and miserable. So yeah it took me a long time to see her negative traits, but then I finally did and I could no longer stand her.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #77
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    It's true that my ISFJ best friend does have a pessimistic and negative attitude to life, and truthfully it frustrates me when I phone her in a hyped up happy mood because I often take on negative moods if they are around me.

    But then I think about how she has been there for me when I was miss negativity of the world, put up with my whining and moaning about all that happened to me (I met her in a womens refuge) and she would try to cheer me up with her negative yet realistic outlook on many things.

    I don't let her depression bring me down, I just barrel my way through all of that until she is laughing and appearing to be a bit happier.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  8. #78
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seeker22 View Post
    I am an ENFP... Was with an ISFJ for 5 years right down to owning a home together and everything... the whole nine yards...

    Some general themes of the relationship - which by the way, I wound up having to end it because I became too unhappy - even though I REALLY wanted it to work...

    1) ISFJ tendency toward pessimism, complaining, buzzkill, negative attitude:
    Yeah, we're quite pessimistic people. I wonder what's up with that? Must be all this security and avoidance of failure attitude that we frequently engage in to ensure that our future is decent. I'd agree with lightning, that the ISFJ seems unhealthy because if she was healthy she'd quickly realise how much being negative drags down a relationship?

    I'm curious, how did the relationship end in the end? How did she react to the news?

    3) ISFJ insecurity, paranoia, and accusations of affairs:
    She was jealous of friends, colleagues, family members, mailmen, neighbors, store clerks, the realtor - ANYONE I gave a crumb of attention to was now "the enemy" in her eyes. Everyone felt like a threat to her. She was very controlling and possessive - so to make her happy I stopped hanging out with anyone or interacting with anyone for fear of her wrath. I started realizing I was living in prison and losing myself. She was very very needy and clingy and would get very upset if I wanted to do something without her.
    I would say that this is due to her being an unhealthy ISFJ, but I sort of engage in this behaviour myself of feeling rejected and thus am slightly needy within. I never let this on to other people, but this might change if I were actually in a relationship.

    Part of me thinks that the need to be needed isn't easily gotten rid of by ISFJs, but I'd love to hear stories of people who don't relate to this piece of information.

    4) Criticism, moodiness, unanticipated and easily triggered BLOW UPS where they annihilate you and rehash everything wrong you've ever done (in their eyes) and then bring you a pizza later with "I'm Sorry" written in pepperoni and profusely apologize. Blame shifting: nothing was ever her fault and I was the root cause of all evil at all times.
    She: "Get in here."
    Me: "Ok, what's up?" <walk into kitchen>
    She: "There are four cans of food missing from the pantry."
    Me: "Yes I donated them to the can drive for poor kids."
    She: "WHAT is WRONG with you!!!?" <flings my backpack across room and storms off, begins silent treatment>


    5) Focus on problems not solutions:
    She: "I'm sick of doing everything around here."
    Me: "Let me pay someone to come and clean the house once a week."
    She: "That's a waste of money and a ridiculous idea."
    Me: "Well how about I treat you to dinner once a week then?"
    She: "I'm not your slave don't treat me like one."
    Me: "Ok how about we make a chore table and take turns?"
    She: "I'm not in kindergarten I don't need a chore table."
    Me: *sigh*
    Hehe. This is actually something that my ENTP boss once mentioned to me that I have a tendancy to seek out problems rather than solutions "Right, give me solutions not problems." and I think she's right. I also like to think that I might make an alright troubleshooter because of this habit of discovering errors etc.

    6) Lack of conversational skills or participation: We could not hold a conversation to save our lives. <crickets chirping> I would say something and she would stay quiet. Some might mistake this for her being a "good listener." But I say NO. She never gave any feedback or contributed to the conversation- she didn't participate or add to what was being said. I was BORED to tears. She never had anything interesting, thought provoking, or engaging to say. The two times of year she did I got all excited and wrote it in my journal to cling to.
    What made you become interested to her in the first place? Where was the conversational element at the beginning? Granted, you don't have to answer if you feel as if I'm probing a little too much. I'm just genuinely interested.

    Basically I couldn't do ANYTHING right in her eyes. I tried for five years and finally it became too exhausting. It felt like I was responsible for her happiness and I could never make her happy because it was like a bottomless pit - it would never be enough. I just couldn't please her.

    The lack of intellectual stimulation and the sheer quantity and degree of boredom was painful.

    To her credit - she DID cook and clean. But I felt like I lived with a statue - and a critical one at that!
    Eitherway sorry to hear that it didn't work out in the end, but it seems like you have moved onto better relationships.

  9. #79
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seeker22 View Post
    I am an ENFP... Was with an ISFJ for 5 years right down to owning a home together and everything... the whole nine yards...

    Some general themes of the relationship - which by the way, I wound up having to end it because I became too unhappy - even though I REALLY wanted it to work...

    1) ISFJ tendency toward pessimism, complaining, buzzkill, negative attitude:

    Me: I'm so excited we're buying a home!!!
    She: "Now we have a mortgage payment and property taxes."

    Me: "I can't wait to take the boat out it's going to be so fun!"
    She: "Now we have to make sure it's insured and pay for gas."

    Me: "I love our new baby kitten she's adorable!!"
    She: "Now we have a litter box to clean and vet bills."

    Me: "I'm so excited that our friends are coming over today!!"
    She: "Now we have to buy food and drinks and clean up afterward."

    One day I gave her a stuffed Eeyore animal from Winnie the Pooh to try and make a point in a humorous way. She always saw the glass as "half empty." Everything in her life went through that negative filter. =(

    2) She wanted a HELPMATE. I wanted a MINDMATE.
    Me: "What do you think about ______? I wonder if ______?"
    She: "This place is a mess. I do everything around here."
    (Keep in mind "mess" to her would be clean by anyone else's standards and she would fail to recognize or acknowledge all the ways I contributed to the relationship and then give constant guilt trips)

    3) ISFJ insecurity, paranoia, and accusations of affairs:
    She was jealous of friends, colleagues, family members, mailmen, neighbors, store clerks, the realtor - ANYONE I gave a crumb of attention to was now "the enemy" in her eyes. Everyone felt like a threat to her. She was very controlling and possessive - so to make her happy I stopped hanging out with anyone or interacting with anyone for fear of her wrath. I started realizing I was living in prison and losing myself. She was very very needy and clingy and would get very upset if I wanted to do something without her.

    4) Criticism, moodiness, unanticipated and easily triggered BLOW UPS where they annihilate you and rehash everything wrong you've ever done (in their eyes) and then bring you a pizza later with "I'm Sorry" written in pepperoni and profusely apologize. Blame shifting: nothing was ever her fault and I was the root cause of all evil at all times.
    She: "Get in here."
    Me: "Ok, what's up?" <walk into kitchen>
    She: "There are four cans of food missing from the pantry."
    Me: "Yes I donated them to the can drive for poor kids."
    She: "WHAT is WRONG with you!!!?" <flings my backpack across room and storms off, begins silent treatment>

    5) Focus on problems not solutions:
    She: "I'm sick of doing everything around here."
    Me: "Let me pay someone to come and clean the house once a week."
    She: "That's a waste of money and a ridiculous idea."
    Me: "Well how about I treat you to dinner once a week then?"
    She: "I'm not your slave don't treat me like one."
    Me: "Ok how about we make a chore table and take turns?"
    She: "I'm not in kindergarten I don't need a chore table."
    Me: *sigh*

    6) Lack of conversational skills or participation: We could not hold a conversation to save our lives. <crickets chirping> I would say something and she would stay quiet. Some might mistake this for her being a "good listener." But I say NO. She never gave any feedback or contributed to the conversation- she didn't participate or add to what was being said. I was BORED to tears. She never had anything interesting, thought provoking, or engaging to say. The two times of year she did I got all excited and wrote it in my journal to cling to.

    Basically I couldn't do ANYTHING right in her eyes. I tried for five years and finally it became too exhausting. It felt like I was responsible for her happiness and I could never make her happy because it was like a bottomless pit - it would never be enough. I just couldn't please her.

    The lack of intellectual stimulation and the sheer quantity and degree of boredom was painful.

    To her credit - she DID cook and clean. But I felt like I lived with a statue - and a critical one at that!
    Aww... sounds like a lost, perfectionist little kid trying to manage as an adult and failing miserably.

    It sounds like you were always enthusiastic about jumping on random opportunities and not seeing them in terms of how much work they meant, because you were so "into it" that it didn't matter to you... and she might well have been afraid that she would be the one left with the worry long after you'd had your quickly forgotten initial fun. That part might be an actual issue for you.

    The can thing might have been annoying as well, because she might have had everything planned around having those cans available, and would have to arrange to replace them now, possibly throwing off the budget, etc.

    Everything else you described sounds like a serious set of character flaws that would be hard to put up with, though.

  10. #80
    Senior Member seeker22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    I'm curious, how did the relationship end in the end? How did she react to the news?

    What made you become interested to her in the first place? Where was the conversational element at the beginning?
    The relationship ended when I told her I wanted to have a balanced life that included family and friends. She said no, I could not have that. The therapist about fell out of his chair. She said I could not be trusted and have absolutely zero boundaries.

    No I have never cheated, yes I do have that inherent ENFP engage complete strangers and everyone in between thing - I will own that. I told her that quality is part of my personality, and EVERYONE who knows me knows how strongly I feel about cheating being wrong and that I would never do it. They know I am playful and friendly but would never take it past that. She could not trust me though. She loved that quality in me at first - then grew to loathe it. I even tried to keep it reeled in for her! Did not feel natural for me though - felt like self suicide.

    Anyway, she was devastated. I could not figure out why when it was clear everything about me was "wrong" in her eyes. She then went out and proceeded to hook up with anyone and everyone who was mammal and had a pulse, including my friend. That hurt. And here she said I was the one to be worried about!

    We tried to reconcile and then I found out she was cheating. That was it for me. She ended up "downgrading" (lol) to someone who is totally unattractive and into drugs and alcohol. However, she continues to call, text, and email me that she loves me and can't get over her feelings for me. I just don't get it.

    As for the beginning and having no conversation - I thought she was just shy and would "warm up." She never did. She is also amazingly sexy, cooks amazing food, cleans, does laundry, etc. Loved those parts of her - she kind of swept me off my feet with all of her kind gestures.

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