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Thread: STJs + FPs

  1. #41
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odi et Amo View Post
    My ENFP pops and ESTJ younger brother share exactly this kind of bond. My pops makes my brother laugh with his scattershot humor & pushes his intellect with his musings, which are frequently all over the place and longwinded. My brother slays my pops in response with his straightforward cynicism and deadpan little asides. Whenever we're all together on a big holiday or something, they always gravitate towards each other. Humor seems to be the glue between STJs and NFPs.
    IT TOTALLY IS! I didn't realize how crucial it is, but now that I think of it, it's so true to my experience.

  2. #42
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Reading the first page vs. my own thoughts, it's funny that the FPs seem to be attracted by our differences, whereas I feel attracted by our similarities: Our Fi, as EJCC pointed out (though she framed it as a difference, as well). That Fi seeking out something similar to itself. Maybe this is why STJs and FPs are types usually known for their "high standards", but it's something I admire in them and recognize as an attitude we share.
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  3. #43
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odi et Amo View Post
    My ENFP pops and ESTJ younger brother share exactly this kind of bond. My pops makes my brother laugh with his scattershot humor & pushes his intellect with his musings, which are frequently all over the place and longwinded. My brother slays my pops in response with his straightforward cynicism and deadpan little asides. Whenever we're all together on a big holiday or something, they always gravitate towards each other. Humor seems to be the glue between STJs and NFPs.
    haha yeah, i like this too. very true to my experiences.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
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  4. #44
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Was going to post this about TJs + FPs generally, but didn't want the conversation to turn into an INTJ/ENFP bitchfest, so I'm asking my fellow low-drama STJs about it instead.
    Looks like it happened anyway...

    /INTJ derailing threads.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Not being aware of the limitations of their innate strengths and assuming they are just as epic when working with people yet treating them like objects and ignoring collateral damage along the way? No.......
    He treats objects like women, man.[/The Dude]
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  6. #46
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    I'm good friends with several STJs. My best friend from college is an xSTJ.

    I don't really have any deep insights on this one other than I like how straightforward and frank they are, no bullshit, we share a similar sense of humor, and they tolerate me and even enjoy me, although they admittedly find me strange.

    One of my close ENFP friends is married to an ISTJ guy who holds most of her (very wide, very diverse) social circle in the deepest distrust and suspicion because of how "weird" they are but likes me because I'm "funny", even though we have zero cultural similarities in common and I'm the essence of everything he thinks is weird. My best friend is pretty similar in that sense, she's very judgy about most people and doesn't like "weirdness" (as defined in her own head) but we clicked even though we were culturally completely different.

    My grandfather, whom I've always been very close to, is an ISTJ. I used to follow him around like a puppy when I was a kid. He took me riding and fed me ice cream and taught me how to math. At this point, I think I'm the only family member he still talks to; he's alienated everyone else because of his insane standards for how people should be. For some reason though, he never tried to impose those standards on me (except for minor stuff like the "right" way to write down or tell someone else your phone number) and doesn't flip out or sulk when I disagree.

    I like my STJ friends because they make me feel like they're making an exception for me in their well ordered worlds. But to my credit, I help them write nice emails to people and teach them how to reject romantic overtures nicely.

  7. #47
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Why didn't I see this thread earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    My current theory is that we find their Fi expression to be cathartic, somehow. Since we're so unwilling to express that most of the time.
    Really? That's pleasant and interesting thought. I wondered how it would feel to you guys.

    It fascinates me why TJs (particularly ExTJs) have any interest in connecting to Fi. Part of me struggles to comprehend what the hell they could get out of it. Maybe its a misconception but it seems to me that TJs seem to see Fi as equivalent to weakness (in the broadest sense of the word). Actually what I'm talking about is less developed TJs, because as they get older they seem to soften and are less critical of Fi qualities. But really, I remember so many occasions where (often younger) TJs seem offended by my Fi-ness - like they couldn't stand how backward it was. I just don't how they can go from that reaction to feeling pleasure in it. It's also hard for me to get why someone so driven by hard logic and so self-assured in the way they see the world (as TJs generally are) would slowly back away from that over time. I know in theory that they're discovering the complexities of the world and learning to live with the 'grey areas', but still...

    I have to say though, there are few things more disarmingly charming than a TJ (again, particularly a ExTJ) momentarily displaying strong Fi traits. It makes me go all mushy inside to see pillars of strength give a little.

    Edit: FPs, feel free to post your view as well -- be it why you're drawn to STJs, or why STJs are drawn to you.
    Relating to what I said above, I don't think you guys realise how overwhelming the endless complexities of the world can be for us NFPs. It's tiring to deal with reality on a case by case basis. Te can just cut through the crap like a knife and get right to the crux of the matter, which can feel like lifting a huge mental burden. It brings clarity where once there was confusion and mental disarray. STJs in general have this (what I call a) restorative quality. It's like when things get off track they bring things back to where they need to be. It's a protective quality but it also renews our awareness and appreciation of what is important.
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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Why didn't I see this thread earlier?


    Really? That's interesting thought.

    It fascinates me why TJs (particularly ExTJs) have any interest in connecting to Fi. Part of me struggles to comprehend what the hell they could get out of it. Maybe its a misconception but it seems to me that TJs seem to see Fi as equivalent to weakness (in the broadest sense of the word). Actually what I'm talking about is less developed TJs, because as they get older they seem to soften and are less critical of Fi qualities. But really, I remember so many occasions where (often younger) TJs seem offended by my Fi-ness - like they couldn't stand how backward it was. I just don't how they can go from that reaction to feeling pleasure in it. It's also hard for me to get why someone so driven by hard logic and so self-assured in the way they see the world (as TJs generally are) would slowly back away from that over time. I know in theory that they're discovering the complexities of the world and learning to live with the 'grey areas', but still...

    I have to say though, there are few things more disarmingly charming than a TJ (again, particularly a ExTJ) momentarily displaying strong Fi traits. It makes me go all mushy inside to see pillars of strength give a little.


    Relating to what I said above, I don't think you guys realise how overwhelming the endless complexities of the world can be for us NFPs. It's tiring to deal with reality on a case by case basis. Te can just cut through the crap like a knife and get right to the crux of the matter, which can feel like lifting a huge mental burden. It brings clarity where once there was confusion and mental disarray. STJs in general have this (what I call a) restorative quality. It's like when things get off track they bring things back to where they need to be. It's a protective quality but it also renews our awareness and appreciation of what is important.
    Maybe this might explain it?

    http://www.personalitypage.com/html/development.html

    Let's take a look at Grant's phases of development, using the INFJ Personality Type as an example:

    From age 0 - 6 years
    At this early age, we use all four of the functions in an indiscriminate fashion. We "try on" the different functions for size, determining which ones work best for us. The little INFJ has not yet emerged as any particular personality type, although his parents may notice trends in behavior which appear to have the characteristics of one or more types.

    From 6 - 12 years
    During this phase, our dominant function begins to develop and assert itself. Our young INFJ begins to appear dreamy and introspective - he begins to prefer to use his iNtuition to take in information, and he chooses to do this alone (Introverted). The dominant function of "Introverted iNtuition" begins to show itself as the prevailing aspect of his personality.

    From 12 - 20 years
    The auxiliary function asserts itself as a powerful support to the dominant function. Since all recent studies point towards the importance of a well-developed team of dominant AND auxiliary functions, this is an important time of "self-identification". Research suggests that people without a strong auxiliary function to complement their dominant function have real problems.
    In our INFJ example, we see the auxiliary Feeling function come to the front during this phase as a support to the dominant iNtuitive function. Since the INFJ's dominant function is an Information Gathering function, the auxilary function must be a Decision Making one. Without a Decision Making process, we would flounder about and never get anything done! As the auxilary Feeling process comes forth, the INFJ begins to develop the ability to make decisions based on his personal value system. This auxiliary decision making process will be Extraverted, since the dominant function is Introverted. Since the decision making function is Extraverted, our subject now emerges as a "Judger", rather than a "Perceiver". Our INFJ Personality Type is now pretty firmly set in place, and we know the dominance ordering of the four functions.

    From 20 - 35 years
    We begin to use our tertiary function more frequently and with better success. Our INFJ begins to use his Introverted Thinking function. He continues to make judgments with his Extreverted Feeling auxiliary function, but he also begins to make judgments based on logic and reason, which he works through in his own mind, rather than discussing it with others.

    From 35 - 50 years
    We pay attention to our fourth, inferior function. We feel a need to develop it and use it more effectively. Our INFJ begins to use his Extraverted Sensing function. He becomes more aware of his surroundings and begins to take in information from others in a more literal, practical sense. He continues to rely on his dominant Introverted iNtuitive function to take in information, but he is more able to use his Extraverted Sensing function than he has been before in his life. Some researchers have attested that the appearance of our inferior functions at this phase of life may be responsible for what we commonly call the "mid-life crisis".

    From 50 onwards
    From this age until our deaths, we have accessibility to all four functions. However, we use them in a more disciplined, differentiated manner than when we were very young. Our basic Personality Type continues to assert itself, but we are able to call upon all four functions when needed.

  9. #49
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calb View Post
    Thanks. I've read that before but forgot where I saw it. It's good to go over it again.

    But again, I understand that stuff in theory, it's just baffling to me when it comes to TJs. I suppose part of the problem is that being a FP, as I mature I start to move toward the things the TJs are backing away from.

    It's hard to explain. It just doesn't quite click for me
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  10. #50
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Thanks. I've read that before but forgot where I saw it. It's good to go over it again.

    But again, I understand that stuff in theory, it's just baffling to me when it comes to TJs. I suppose part of the problem is that being a FP, as I mature I start to move toward the things the TJs are backing away from.

    It's hard to explain. It just doesn't quite click for me
    I thought it might explain why the ESTJ would move into the Dominant and Auxiliary territory of the INFP. Because from the age of 20, they develop Tertiary Ne and then develop Inferior Fi from 35 onwards. The idea is, that they are well developed from the age of 50+ That neither the dominant, nor inferior matters any more, and they all have equal strength.

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