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  1. #21
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Ayrab View Post
    wow, you guys are all making out this ESFJ to be the bad guy here, even though he is the one that got cheated on. Well, he is an ESFJ so he probably doesn't think about anything but sex, not the fact that he got cheated on, rolls eyes.
    I don't think he's the bad guy at all. He may have made some poor choices in friends, but he did nothing wrong in this particular situation. I sympathize with him and with Harlow_Jem.
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  2. #22
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    Don't think this was rape at all. Doesn't sound like "forced sex" to me. When drunk, your judgement sometimes goes out the window and you end up making stupid decisions at the time. What if the guy she did it with was drunk too - did he get sexually assaulted also? If this is the case, I guess I've been raped a few times.

    Anyhow, as much as you desire to fix this - it's unfixable. Lesson learned - don't drink so much and don't combine it with Xanax. Sorry.

  3. #23
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    Don't think this was rape at all. Doesn't sound like "forced sex" to me. When drunk, your judgement sometimes goes out the window and you end up making stupid decisions at the time.
    You don't think this sounds at least like a possible rape?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harlow_Jem View Post
    I know it's my fault that I got completely trashed but I laid down on the bed and his best friend literally grabbed me like a ragdoll and after that, I don't remember shit.
    There may be more to the story, but I don't think we've yet heard enough to dismiss that it was non-consensual.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Harlow_Jem's Avatar
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    It was non-consensual but I was apathetic to what was happening since I was too trashed to make any sort of judgment. I am not in any way disturbed or bothered by what happened with his best friend except for the fact that it fucked things up between me and ESFJ.

    I'm 20, btw. I sent him a message on facebook explaining all this and he has not yet written back yet. I'm pretty sure he chooses to believe his best friend's point of view of the situation and probably does not ever want to reconcile things with me since it started out as just a summer fling and never really got "serious." Nonetheless, I realized that I had strong feelings for him and that although he is an ESFJ and I am an INTJ, it could have worked out if I had not gone and fucked his best friend. Oops.

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  5. #25
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    Don't think this was rape at all. Doesn't sound like "forced sex" to me. When drunk, your judgement sometimes goes out the window and you end up making stupid decisions at the time. What if the guy she did it with was drunk too - did he get sexually assaulted also? If this is the case, I guess I've been raped a few times.

    Anyhow, as much as you desire to fix this - it's unfixable. Lesson learned - don't drink so much and don't combine it with Xanax. Sorry.
    +1

    My god, do we need to make guys sign consent forms before sex now? I understand the desire to protect potential victims, but I think women are just as capable as men of making stupid decisions when drunk (and/or making stupid decisions about where and when to drink), and should be held equally responsible - in this case, we have no way to know that the guy wasn't equally "messed up". If we end up crying wolf too many times, we could end up with real rape victims who don't receive the care and attention they deserve.

    /end rant

    Re the OP, you fucked up, most guys wouldn't be able to look you in the eye after that, let alone date you. It isn't a type issue, it's your issue. He could be a complete pussy sweetheart and be able to forgive you, but that is a rare individual, rather than something to be expected.

  6. #26
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    I'm a little shocked by the dismissive responses.

    If Harlow doesn't want to make a big deal out of what happened to her then that's on her. I'm not the casting agent for a Lifetime movie. Fact of the matter is she couldn't say no, was drunk and loopy on meds. She was in no form to consent to what happened and this has nothing to do with getting guys to sign waivers. If you all want to dance around the issue, fine but she was date raped. I guess this is a case of if a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, did it make a sound.

  7. #27
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    Have you tried to have a completely honest and open discussion of what happened, how sorry you are and that you think you love the ESFJ?

    Was this "friend" trashed as well or was he sober?

  8. #28
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    This is such a tangent, and not asked for by the OP, but I felt that your response deserved a reply, pm.

    Can two people rape each other simultaneously and without a struggle by either party? So do they both get jail time, then, or what? Why is it only ever the male who's accused of date rape when two drunk people have drunken sex?

    I've never in my entire life been asked for permission to have sex with me, drunk or sober, and I'd laugh hysterically if I was. Do I need to start asking permission before sex too? It's only fair. Assuming no force/coercion etc is involved, women are just as capable as men are of making wise or foolish decisions, whether drunk/high or sober. Taking responsibility for your own actions = way cool (and it seems like you've gone this route, Harlow, for which I applaud you). Blaming others = lame. Especially when criminal charges are involved.

  9. #29
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    Oy, that's tough. You should have mentioned it wasn't consensual. I'd still let the guy go.

  10. #30
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I've never in my entire life been asked for permission to have sex with me, drunk or sober, and I'd laugh hysterically if I was. Do I need to start asking permission before sex too? It's only fair.
    So, Randomnity, since I find myself on the PC side this time (), how many times do you think I've been involved in a formal exchange of permission?

    It seems to me that you and alicia91 are assuming more than we've been told. (Oh, the delicious irony of an INTJ saying this to two ISTPs! ) Or do you really think that the following positively does not describe a rape?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harlow_Jem View Post
    I know it's my fault that I got completely trashed but I laid down on the bed and his best friend literally grabbed me like a ragdoll and after that, I don't remember shit.
    I'm not saying she needs to press charges or otherwise ruin the guy's life. Maybe there is just a little more to the story that counts as mitigating circumstances. (Although if not, I'd be concerned as to whether the guy would take advantage of other girls in the future.) My purpose in bringing up the 'r' word was to shed light upon why the ESFJ isn't buying Harlow_Jem's story:

    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I have to say I don't wonder at the ESFJ reacting as if you willingly slept with his friend when your focus seems to be on winning the ESFJ back rather than on reacting to the rape. This discrepancy between your behavior and expected/normal behavior steals verisimilitude from your version of events.
    I'm thinking that most women would either concede that the sex was somehow consensual (which H_J doesn't) or feel at least a little bit traumatized (which H_J doesn't). It's a rare woman who will react completely dispassionately to a non-consensual act of sex, like it was a car accident that was no one's fault, and so I don't blame the ESFJ for thinking she's lying about her part in inviting, or rather, in not inviting the event.

    And if there were mitigating circumstances that we haven't heard about, maybe it's best if he thinks that way; I'm not sure the odds are good that an ESFJ man would react equally dispassionately to 'a car accident that was no one's fault'.

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