[MBTI General] ESFJs, what do you think of INTPs?

[chubber]

ESFJ I dated, complained that I didn't update my facebook or upload any pictures of me and her. That was something she noticed and whined about.

 

[HongDou]

[MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION]
if wanted her back, he should have showed it to her through his actions.

He did, he brought her flowers, cried, and told her how he felt. And an INTP showing his raw emotions is a rare spectacle so I think they can work.

ESFJ I dated, complained that I didn't update my facebook or upload any pictures of me and her. That was something she noticed and whined about.

There are good ESFJs and dumb ESFJs, much like there is a dumb version of any other type. Okay dumb isn't really the right word haha, more like immature. My ENFJ mom does this when I don't get back to her Facebook posts on my wall though. I agree it can be annoying. It's just Facebook dude!

 

[Honor]

Are there even any ESFJ's on this forum?

I think there are a few who are mistyped as something else.

 

[Showbread]

I WAS SO FUCKING CLOSE

(I like my version better - she should get a name change)

Haha! Someone else called me Shortbread.

To answer the actual question, I rather like INTPs. One of my good friends is an INTP. We have a rather interesting relationship and disagree about a lot of things. But, he's hilarious and despite the image he tries to project, very kind and cares deeply about his friends.

One thing I struggle with when interacting with INTPs is the way they avoid being vulnerable and their resistance to accepting help, even when they so obviously need it. One of my biggest challenges with them is not being evasive.

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

I think there are a few who are mistyped as something else.

No kidding.

 

[baccheion]

Haha! Someone else called me Shortbread.

To answer the actual question, I rather like INTPs. One of my good friends is an INTP. We have a rather interesting relationship and disagree about a lot of things. But, he's hilarious and despite the image he tries to project, very kind and cares deeply about his friends.

One thing I struggle with when interacting with INTPs is the way they avoid being vulnerable and their resistance to accepting help, even when they so obviously need it. One of my biggest challenges with them is not being evasive.

Good to hear a positive account. I don't think he's projecting an image, that would be more an INTJ thing. I think it's generally the case that INTPs are kind and that they care about their friends (and, well, everyone). It's just that there are always these complaints and false accusations surrounding them that they don't give a shit. Which is quickly shown to be rubbish if you are around an INTP for even a short period of time. The only thing they can get away with saying is that INTPs are generally not very forward with compliments and feelery forms of support (like words, etc). They can also be direct (different from blunt), but in real life you have to ask for that kinda feedback. So, it's usually the case that someone tried to bait them into giving rosy compliments, and rather than doing that they just said nothing (even this is an insult, probably because the person didn't get what they wanted) or said what actually is. If you see an INTP, then you see someone always doing nice things for people (that don't involve talking), sometimes to the point that people try to take advantage of them (one way they do it is to claim that the INTP doesn't give a shit, or some other attempt at a guilt trip). They don't do it with the frequency of healthy feelers that like doing things for people, but they do it nonetheless. And it's usually unappreciated or patronized. Whatever.

Why would someone want to intentionally be vulnerable? I think it's good to not be vulnerable and to be self-sufficient, rather than reliant on others. And that's even before all the traps and the BS that people tried to string along with any act of "kindness" they did. I honed in on this part because I notice consistently people trying to break me down until I'm needy and always at everyone else's whim. I think this is weakness and is unnecessary, and it annoys and repulses me when people try to make me this way. Seems very selfish. I also don't like what happens if I ever end up vulnerable or if I ever need someone. What a display of BS. It got so bad that even when I'd normally ask for help I just don't bother because of all the BS waiting for me, but that may not be the case for other INTPs. I think INTPs generally try to be independent and self-reliant and do things to avoid needing other people, but if they need them, then they'll ask for help. So, if they aren't asking for help, then they don't think they need it or think it would be pointless or a waste of time to seek it.

Another thing that annoys me is that in addition to people trying to make me vulnerable or set things up so I need others or need help, they try to claim that beneath it all I'm just a soft, weak, vulnerable person that needs help and doesn't ask for it, and I'm just putting up a facade to hide my core because I'm afraid of being hurt. What kinda bullshit is this? Where do thoughts/accusations like this come from? Sounds like a feeler to me. Either way, nothing clues me in more to the fact that people just don't get me than them saying something like this. And more than saying this (and being wrong), they actually think they are helping me because they are making me look more human, as if the bullshit claims that I'm inhuman, cold, etc, are all true. INTPs try to avoid people like this like the plague, but they always seem to be around no matter where they go. Seriously, how hard is it to understand the person you are looking at?

 

[Showbread]

Why would someone want to intentionally be vulnerable? I think it's good to not be vulnerable and to be self-sufficient, rather than reliant on others. And that's even before all the traps and the BS that people tried to string along with any act of "kindness" they did. I honed in on this part because I notice consistently people trying to break me down until I'm needy and always at everyone else's whim. I think this is weakness and is unnecessary, and it annoys and repulses me when people try to make me this way. Seems very selfish. I also don't like what happens if I ever end up vulnerable or if I ever need someone. What a display of BS. It got so bad that even when I'd normally ask for help I just don't bother because of all the BS waiting for me, but that may not be the case for other INTPs. I think INTPs generally try to be independent and self-reliant and do things to avoid needing other people, but if they need them, then they'll ask for help. So, if they aren't asking for help, then they don't think they need it or think it would be pointless or a waste of time to seek it.

I disagree. I think there is strength in vulnerability. I honestly don't see how trust and intimacy are possible without it. I think there is something really beautiful about relationships and living in community with other people. Because if we're being honest, nobody can actually be completely self-sufficient all the time.

Obviously, it is important to respect people's boundaries. Vulnerability is not something that should ever be forced or pressed. It sounds like you have had some really negative experiences with some very pushy and demanding people.

 

[Haven]

There seem to be different kinds of INTPs. The good ones are like [MENTION=4660]msg_v2[/MENTION], they have a good sense of humor and self awareness to soften their wit and they generally seem like they need a hug. Really enjoy their company.

Other kinds have zero self awareness, always have an axe to grind, always have a point to prove, frequently are rude and can't/wont acknowledge it, claim to be self sufficient yet routinely take advantage of others. Something about them gives me chills and I try to avoid them, but they're so aggressive and always have something to prove, so they keep coming back!

 

[HongDou]

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

No kidding.

Every INTP has an ESFJ inside of them, whether they like it or not...

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

Every INTP has an ESFJ inside of them, whether they like it or not...

Aw. You have a female ESFJ deep down inside you.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Why would someone want to intentionally be vulnerable? I think it's good to not be vulnerable and to be self-sufficient, rather than reliant on others.

It's an act of courage, but sometime it pays off. it is a gamble, though. I don't necessarily enjoy being mistrustful, and am eager to find reasons not to be.

 

[cafe]

Every INTP has an ESFJ inside of them, whether they like it or not...

That explains mine treating me like I'm a danger to myself and others when there are sharp things and bodies of water around. And fussing at me for checking my phone when the light is red.

 

[Showbread]

Every INTP has an ESFJ inside of them, whether they like it or not...

Does that mean every ESFJ has an INTP inside them as well?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Does that mean every ESFJ has an INTP inside them as well?

I think so...

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

Does that mean every ESFJ has an INTP inside them as well?

Yes.

Deep, deep, deep down.

 

[baccheion]

It's an act of courage, but sometime it pays off. it is a gamble, though. I don't necessarily enjoy being mistrustful, and am eager to find reasons not to be.

Courage or no courage is not what this is about, and it's not about me lacking the courage to make myself vulnerable. It's that it seems superficial, pointless, and unnecessary. And if it were ever the case that I was vulnerable, I wouldn't want to roll around in it, I'd want to fix the issue and get back to what I was doing. The types around me tend to jump at any show of vulnerability and do everything in their power to have everyone see it and to drag it out as long as possible for their own satisfaction, and they think nothing's wrong with this behavior. I don't like being this way, and I definitely wouldn't want it to be some thing that gets triggered and becomes a regular presence in my reality. I also don't want to frequently need a hug, as that implies that my life is frequently shit, and that I'm frequently miserable. I don't want to spend my entire life being miserable or needing support. Why in the hell would I want that? I want to spend most of my life happy, satisfied, prosperous, and doing and accomplishing the things I want. Yes, life isn't always this way, but to legitimately be in a position where this vulnerability/weakness/neediness BS is showing up all the damn time would be a nightmare. And I get annoyed thinking about it, because people actively try to make my life a living hell just so they can rush in to "support" me (and in a way that's not usually genuine) and other bullshit, and I think there is something very wrong with this behavior.

But women keep repeating that they want this over and over again (and you'd be best served figuring out what they really mean), so I suppose if the right woman were to come along, then I would do something like this to get her or to please her, but that's just a "makes sense" theory because that not how I operate. If I can't be myself and can't be comfortable/happy with the compromises I make to have a relationship work, then I'm wasting my time. Relationships should not be a source of misery for either parties, it should be a source of strength, refuge, support, understanding, happiness, etc. I want to stab the people that say pain is love, because I just don't think it's supposed to be that way.

Also, I'm not very mistrustful, though certain people jump out at me as not being trustworthy due to past experience. I just don't care, and would prefer to be in an environment where I don't even have to think about such things as who to trust, etc, because everyone is ethical and honest, and about their business. I haven't had much luck finding such an environment yet. My life has been one string after another of BS. And it's not even anything major, just always something to keep me from being happy, and to keep me from progressing with my life. I wouldn't wish this existence on anyone.

And I remember at moments during this life that I needed the attention and support of others, and it made me aware of the painful reality that those around me wouldn't know how to help me if they tried. They just replay the same bullshit about "talk talk talk your problems out", "express how you feel", "let me give you a hug", "what you need are friends", or suggest some other stupid idea that either does nothing or makes things worse. Truly depressing. I don't need a hug, or to express how I feel. I'm not like you. What I need is to be rid of the problem, and it seems that when my brain shuts down and I can't think through the solution the reality becomes clear that there is no one else around that can do it, or if they are around, they'd rather die than do it. And the message throughout is that "this is life", or that "life is hard" or some other BS, which just makes me think they wouldn't help me even if they knew how. For some reason they prefer it and enjoy it when my life is hell, and I'm accomplishing nothing, and going nowhere, and am surrounded by people like this that only give the runaround while suggesting BS that doesn't work. It's like they can't stand it when I'm working to achieve something big, and it's like they are getting revenge against my larger than life positive outlook and my ambition, by shitting all over any chance I have of making them reality, and by "bringing me down to earth." I think I can do something big, and it becomes their job to make it clear to me, by getting in my way or any other means necessary, to make it clear that I'm wrong. There's no reach for the stars around these people (unless it's their stars), just the same old blah blah blah.

I think it's important for people that do care to realize when they aren't helping. Just blindly forcing shit down people's throat while freaking out at any resistance (and thinking you are perfectly justified in doing it) because you want to help is just not right. If you aren't helping, then your intentions don't matter.. you aren't helping. Either find a way to help, or remove yourself from the situation lest you cause more damage.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Yes.

Deep, deep, deep down.

In the ground, underground. Deep down? Deep Down? underground, underground? But don't frown! Don't frown!

 

[cafe]

Courage or no courage is not what this is about, and it's not about me lacking the courage to make myself vulnerable. It's that it seems superficial, pointless, and unnecessary. And if it were ever the case that I was vulnerable, I wouldn't want to roll around in it, I'd want to fix the issue and get back to what I was doing. The types around me tend to jump at any show of vulnerability and do everything in their power to have everyone see it and to drag it out as long as possible for their own satisfaction, and they think nothing's wrong with this behavior. I don't like being this way, and I definitely wouldn't want it to be some thing that gets triggered and becomes a regular presence in my reality. I also don't want to frequently need a hug, as that implies that my life is frequently shit, and that I'm frequently miserable. I don't want to spend my entire life being miserable or needing support. Why in the hell would I want that? I want to spend most of my life happy, satisfied, prosperous, and doing and accomplishing the things I want. Yes, life isn't always this way, but to legitimately be in a position where this vulnerability/weakness/neediness BS is showing up all the damn time would be a nightmare. And I get annoyed thinking about it, because people actively try to make my life a living hell just so they can rush in to "support" me (and in a way that's not usually genuine) and other bullshit, and I think there is something very wrong with this behavior.

But women keep repeating that they want this over and over again (and you'd be best served figuring out what they really mean), so I suppose if the right woman were to come along, then I would do something like this to get her or to please her, but that's just a "makes sense" theory because that not how I operate. If I can't be myself and can't be comfortable/happy with the compromises I make to have a relationship work, then I'm wasting my time. Relationships should not be a source of misery for either parties, it should be a source of strength, refuge, support, understanding, happiness, etc. I want to stab the people that say pain is love, because I just don't think it's supposed to be that way.

Also, I'm not very mistrustful, though certain people jump out at me as not being trustworthy due to past experience. I just don't care, and would prefer to be in an environment where I don't even have to think about such things as who to trust, etc, because everyone is ethical and honest, and about their business. I haven't had much luck finding such an environment yet. My life has been one string after another of BS. And it's not even anything major, just always something to keep me from being happy, and to keep me from progressing with my life. I wouldn't wish this existence on anyone.

And I remember at moments during this life that I needed the attention and support of others, and it made me aware of the painful reality that those around me wouldn't know how to help me if they tried. They just replay the same bullshit about "talk talk talk your problems out", "express how you feel", "let me give you a hug", "what you need are friends", or suggest some other stupid idea that either does nothing or makes things worse. Truly depressing. I don't need a hug, or to express how I feel. I'm not like you. What I need is to be rid of the problem, and it seems that when my brain shuts down and I can't think through the solution the reality becomes clear that there is no one else around that can do it, or if they are around, they'd rather die than do it. And the message throughout is that "this is life", or that "life is hard" or some other BS, which just makes me think they wouldn't help me even if they knew how. For some reason they prefer it and enjoy it when my life is hell, and I'm accomplishing nothing, and going nowhere, and am surrounded by people like this that only give the runaround while suggesting BS that doesn't work. It's like they can't stand it when I'm working to achieve something big, and it's like they are getting revenge against my larger than life positive outlook and my ambition, by shitting all over any chance I have of making them reality, and by "bringing me down to earth." I think I can do something big, and it becomes their job to make it clear to me, by getting in my way or any other means necessary, to make it clear that I'm wrong. There's no reach for the stars around these people (unless it's their stars), just the same old blah blah blah.

I think it's important for people that do care to realize when they aren't helping. Just blindly forcing shit down people's throat while freaking out at any resistance (and thinking you are perfectly justified in doing it) because you want to help is just not right. If you aren't helping, then your intentions don't matter.. you aren't helping. Either find a way to help, or remove yourself from the situation lest you cause more damage.

Sorry for the derail, but I enjoy people that do not emote all over me. It damages my calm when people can't keep a lid on it. Nobody can all the time, but if you're not five years old . . .

 

[chubber]

But women keep repeating that they want this over and over again (and you'd be best served figuring out what they really mean), so I suppose if the right woman were to come along, then I would do something like this to get her or to please her, but that's just a "makes sense" theory because that not how I operate. If I can't be myself and can't be comfortable/happy with the compromises I make to have a relationship work, then I'm wasting my time. Relationships should not be a source of misery for either parties, it should be a source of strength, refuge, support, understanding, happiness, etc. I want to stab the people that say pain is love, because I just don't think it's supposed to be that way.

Haha, @ underlined. uhm, it does sound like Stockholm Syndrome.