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Thread: Ask an ESFJ

  1. #151
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cygnus View Post
    Why does the Type community treat this phenomenon like it should make a lick of sense in the context of Duality?
    Why shouldn't it?
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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Why shouldn't it?
    Are Duals supposed to have an initial "spark of conflict" upon first contact? Nothing I've ever seen written about Duality has ever indicated this is supposed to be a thing. All I've seen seems to indicate that you instantly recognize your Dual as "the other side of you" and it's love at first sight or something.


    Moreover, why have we yet to see an equivalent shitstorm between ISTP and ENFJ in the same way we've seen associated with INTP and ESFJ?

  3. #153
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cygnus View Post
    Are Duals supposed to have an initial "spark of conflict" upon first contact? Nothing I've ever seen written about Duality has ever indicated this is supposed to be a thing. All I've seen seems to indicate that you instantly recognize your Dual as "the other side of you" and it's love at first sight or something.
    The general gist in what I've read is that people see their duals as a magnified version of their undeveloped "shadow selves" -- frustratingly immature. Some of that has just been from talking to people on the forum, and having it ring true with my experiences with INFPs (and INFPs' experience with ESTJs, etc.), but I've seen it referenced in Naomi Quenk's work.

    One example from "Was That Really Me?":
    [INTJ] Recognizing the Inferior Function in INTJ

    In effective dominant Extraverted Sensing types, the enjoyment of sensual pleasures is natural, spontaneous, and quite consistent with their focus on the reality of the immediate environment.

    In Introverted Intuitive types in the grip of inferior Extraverted Sensing, this quality takes the form of sensual excess rather than sensual pleasure. It is interesting that a number of INTJs and INFJs described themselves as becoming “self-centered” and “self-indulgent” when they are in the grip—a descriptor often projected onto well-functioning Extraverted Sensing types by INTJs and INFJs (and by other types as well).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cygnus View Post
    Moreover, why have we yet to see an equivalent shitstorm between ISTP and ENFJ in the same way we've seen associated with INTP and ESFJ?
    I would guess because there aren't as many ISTPs or ENFJs on typology forums -- whereas there are approximately a zillion and a half INTPs. Plus, since there are so few ESFJs relative to INTPs, that allows INTPs to roam free and bitch about ESFJs together, without anyone calling them on it. Same with INFPs complaining about ESTJs. (This forum fell victim to that mindset quite a bit in the first few years of its existence, back when it was "MBTI Central".)
    Last edited by EJCC; 04-03-2015 at 09:42 AM. Reason: wrong link
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!
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  4. #154
    Sweet Summer Dik Dik yama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cygnus View Post
    Why do your Duals apparently hate you?
    I dunno, I get along quite well with my INTP sister almost all of the time.
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  5. #155
    climb on Showbread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21lux View Post
    I dunno, I get along quite well with my INTP sister almost all of the time.
    One of my best friends is an INTP and we get a long very well too. I don't think duals have to have conflict.
    Friends, waffles, work

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  6. #156
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomINTP View Post
    I was looking for an exception, that I may be wrong that ESFJs are the stupidest type. My bad, my bad.
    I gave you the chance to prove me wrong and you threw it away like an empty can of soda. You are proving me right if you don't do this.
    lol
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  7. #157
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    What would you say is the primary difference between ESFJs and ESTJs? I've noticed that they can vibe similarly to each other, especially when the ESTJ and ESFJ are the same gender. My instinct would be that ESFJs are more focused on consensus, but that seems like a shallow and incomplete answer. So I dunno. Thoughts?

    Mostly I'm asking this because I can't tell myself and @Showbread apart anymore.
    I'll throw in my thoughts here...I think they reveal it mostly through displays of inferior Ti and Fi. I think female ESTJs especially have a kind of awareness of how they come off to others and try to ease up on this. Sometimes a great deal depending on their enneagram and dominant instinctual variant. I have seen this in my supervisor at work. She comes off like an ESFJ but a deeper look and you can see she's nothing but ESTJ. She "works" at putting on an ESFJ suit because it helps her to be an effective supervisor and I think she has some personal values that go off in that direction. I think a lot of ESTJ have a secret core of wanting to be liked and accepted...worthy...perhaps this is their inner INFP speaking?

    oh see now...i didn't read all the posts in between but yeah...pretty much in agreement with that. And hell yes, to the sentimental thing in ESTJs...my ESTJ is in the middle of that so bad right now...
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    I don't think duals have to have conflict.
    I would agree with this. I've met a number of ISTP's over the years, and while I normally feel no connection and don't know what to do with them or how to act, I never really have tension or conflict issues with them.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by great_bay View Post
    What is your relations with ESTJ's and ISTJ's?
    My dad is an ESTJ, and I dated an ISTJ. I also get a long with EJCC, at least on the internet. We've never met up in real life. I generally find that I have a lot in common with them, especially if they are close to my age. My ESTJ dad and I struggle because some of our values are pretty different. We run into walls while discussing issues because I'm more concerned with the people involved, and he's more concerned with making sure the answer is just or "correct".

    I ran into this wall less frequently with ISTJ ex. He and I were extremely similar in a lot of ways. We had very similar stressors like inconsistency, uncertainty, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomINTP View Post
    What do you value most in people?
    Loyalty, consistency, genuineness, and a good sense of humor. I also really appreciate people who are secure enough to be vulnerable. I like to get to know others on a pretty deep level.
    Friends, waffles, work

    "The problem is, when you depend on a substitute for love, you can never get enough" - Louis Cozolino

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  10. #160
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    When I hear ESFJ one thing that comes to my mind is "popular girl/boy" (at least the younger ones, say high school). I was wondering what you guys think about this stereotype? Does it hold any truth? Was it always easy (having Fe first in your functions stack) for you to make friends?

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