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[SJ] Are SJ's more normal or less unique than the rest of the types?

HongDou

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:hug: You can still be a special snowflake.

Stupid people are fucking stupid.

I like this quote a lot. But yeah, I don't think this is type related. Degrees of "normalcy" is a little subjective itself, and then it will vary from person to person regardless of type.
 

Thalassa

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The mystery of true back woods Southern people is that they do not want to be normal. Even the most nauseating SJ beaurecratic Southern people do not want to mesh with the rest of you, and the truly SP and N Southern people are completely different eccentric...I even think of the traditional on paper South as SFJ but honestly the whole business really seems ISTP to me or some thing. People hiding from you shooting things in the woods, refusing to conform and yet having a latent streak of grudgingly, almost instinctive unthinking traditions and respect.
 

Thalassa

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Actually, she was correct on a number of levels.

First of all, her title gives credit to each individual personality type as being unique from each other, some less unique than others and some more unique than others. You can certainly subject uniqueness to gradation. It's an arbitrary system of gradation, but everything is arbitrary.

Second of all, literal definition (denotation) doesn't drive language. Denotation is the word when studied in how it's been used, and historically how it's been interpreted to mean. Connotation is the driving mechanism of language, since it's the way the word is used in practical conversation, which is what denotation is studying. And since language moves so fast, even the best efforts (which there certainly have been in the past) can't keep up with the evolution of language. So of course dictionaries aren't up to date, since the way a word is being used popularly only just then gets added to the long list of words waiting to be updated.

Unique as a word has been drawn into meaning something that has peculiar or non-typical qualities, unlike it's past definition of being one-of-a-kind. Its structural grammar was correct, and I'm not sure how you could be unsure of what the meaning is. She clearly set up "unique" as a juxtaposition to "normal", so if you can understand "more normal", why can't you understand that "less unique" is opposite of "more normal"? That's how English works. And English doesn't favor people whose brains are rigid on meanings, so... you're gonna have a bad time.

To the OP:

I think it has more to do with the fact that the SJ population is larger than the SJ population being more normal. Normality in a society is driven by the characteristics of the members of the population, and since SJs comprise more of the population, they're therefor more normal. If NFs were the larger percent of the population, they'd be more normal, since the norm would be skewed towards them.

And like other people have said, they're the drivers of our societies. It's an SJ that's more likely to go into administration or management at some point, and they're the doers who get systems in motion. I think we give "normal" too much weight as "boring". I'm not saying SJs aren't boring (I've met some that are boring as all fuck). But if we didn't have SJs in our society, we'd be screwed. I wouldn't take my mom as any type other than ESFJ, even if we have some core misunderstandings. And it was my ESTJ grandmother that raised my mom, and owned three businesses and was a bank teller and real estate agent. If I need something sewn or something cooked, it's my grandmother I'll go to. Sure, she might think 7/10 paintings in our city's art museum are ugly and meaningless, or that scientists have gone off the deep end with their research on the travel habits of sea cucumbers, but if a store doesn't give us credit for a sale that's going on, she's a pit bull like neither me more my mom can be. She once shook her cane at a judge over a parking ticket.

It takes all types. Normality is a moot point. It's the minority (the unique ones) that has to do constant upkeep on uniqueness as a positive attribute. In Japan and Norway it's something horrible to be.

Actually English is a pretty rigid language. Eastern European people have described it to me as "like a puzzle" and in linguistics I was taught that English is a handy dandy scientific language because of its straight forward simplicity. It lacks emotional complexity. It's great for rigid people. Like the English. And German immigrants.

I love the part about your ESTJ grandma, though.
 

five sounds

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[MENTION=11066]tkae.[/MENTION], I know what you're saying, and I agree with you in a lot of ways. Language is alive and word meaning changes on the streets and on the internet. I consider myself a linguistic descriptivist, so normally I'd be on the other side of this argument defending "what is" in language against "what should be".

My problem with the question was the assumed connotation of both "unique" and "normal". If we're going based on assumed mutual understanding of the connotations of those words, I think there's bound to be a lot of misunderstanding on both accounts. The word "normal" can mean a lot of different things to different people too. Probably more so than "unique". Also, it probably wouldn't have bothered me if there weren't more specific words we could be using to talk about those things (I offered a few that would have taken the question in distinct directions). I wasn't blaming OP for not using them, but simply asking that we think about the question we're asking and try to define it in clearer terms.

Word choice matters. Words mean things. It's fine to go with connotations, but when you're presenting a question to a forum, I think greater semantic precision will result in a clearer, more fruitful argument. The narrower the meaning of a word, the more clearly ideas are conveyed.
 

Honor

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[MENTION=11066]tkae.[/MENTION], I know what you're saying, and I agree with you in a lot of ways. Language is alive and word meaning changes on the streets and on the internet. I consider myself a linguistic descriptivist, so normally I'd be on the other side of this argument defending "what is" in language against "what should be".

My problem with the question was the assumed connotation of both "unique" and "normal". If we're going based on assumed mutual understanding of the connotations of those words, I think there's bound to be a lot of misunderstanding on both accounts. The word "normal" can mean a lot of different things to different people too. Probably more so than "unique". Also, it probably wouldn't have bothered me if there weren't more specific words we could be using to talk about those things (I offered a few that would have taken the question in distinct directions). I wasn't blaming OP for not using them, but simply asking that we think about the question we're asking and try to define it in clearer terms.

Word choice matters. Words mean things. It's fine to go with connotations, but when you're presenting a question to a forum, I think greater semantic precision will result in a clearer, more fruitful argument. The narrower the meaning of a word, the more clearly ideas are conveyed.
Preach sister! Also, dear lord, you wake up so early!
 

AzulEyes

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They may look at the world in similar ways- but I'm surrounded by tons of them- each one as unique as the other.
 

AzulEyes

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oops
 
Last edited:

greenfairy

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The mystery of true back woods Southern people is that they do not want to be normal. Even the most nauseating SJ beaurecratic Southern people do not want to mesh with the rest of you, and the truly SP and N Southern people are completely different eccentric...I even think of the traditional on paper South as SFJ but honestly the whole business really seems ISTP to me or some thing. People hiding from you shooting things in the woods, refusing to conform and yet having a latent streak of grudgingly, almost instinctive unthinking traditions and respect.
Haha. Weirdly enough I think this is true.

And pagans are an "interesting" bunch...
 

digesthisickness

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It's the word "unique" that bugs me. It's the wrong word, I think. Who the hell wants to think they're not unique? Who says, "I'm an idiot who can't think for themselves and only do what others do blindly, and I'm PROUD!"

There are more of them. Majority rules in many cases. Therefore, they are heavily involved in what becomes tradition and the proper way of doing things. And, in many cases, they're absolutely right in doing so. Thanks to them, I have to pull my ass out of bed on Christmas to do the family thing and every time, I'm glad of it. Why is this even a question? Doesn't every book on typing say this? Does it really need to be argued/debated?

Doesn't matter about type. Individuals are individuals. Genius jailbirds and stupid millionaires. It is what it is.
 

digesthisickness

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It's the word "unique" that bugs me. It's the wrong word, I think. Who the hell wants to think they're not unique? Who says, "I'm an idiot who can't think for themselves and only do what others do blindly, and I'm PROUD!"

There are more of them. Majority rules in many cases. Therefore, they are heavily involved in what becomes tradition and the proper way of doing things. And, in many cases, they're absolutely right in doing so. Thanks to them, I have to pull my ass out of bed on Christmas to do the family thing and every time, I'm glad of it. Why is this even a question? Doesn't every book on typing say this? Does it really need to be argued/debated?

Doesn't matter about type. Individuals are individuals. Genius jailbirds and stupid millionaires. It is what it is.
 

greenfairy

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though irl he is pretty outwardly "normal" he is overall an idiosyncratic person who probably has more interesting taste in music than you do.
I think that SJs are the people who have the least problems with the normal. We take little pressure playing with the rules of normal or looking like we were normal. But the SJs I know have a very quirky side beneath.

On the otherhand, the INFJs I know are very obsessed with NOT being normal. They seem to be constantly comparing themselves to normal and wanting to stay away from it. They constantly refer to other people as 'normal', yet I have no reason to believe they are anymore paranormal than the next person.

I don't pretend my taste in music is interesting. I listen to what I like and don't care who creates it. I'm not loyal to any artist, I don't care about lyrics, and I don't try to appreciate music that's not mainstream just so I can say I'm sophisticated. Probably an atypical INFJ in that way. Although I do like variety and intellectual stimulation.

I like the idea of being special and unique, but not to the point where I try to be. I simply appreciate the ways in which I happen to be. There are a lot of ways in which I try to be more normal. Sometimes people who act like they're really weird and that's some awesome thing and they don't even try to fit in annoy the hell out of me.
 

danseen

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er.. all types are unique by definition.

I don't get the question to be honest.
 

Cimarron

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Ok, really not trying to be a jerk, but the before this takes off, I feel like the question might need to be tweaked.

I'm not usually one to throw these kinds of things at people, but when I read the question, I really had a hard time thinking about what it even meant.

http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000269.htm

Some are more equal than others? ;)
 

greenfairy

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er.. all types are unique by definition.

I don't get the question to be honest.
Well all types might be unique, but individuals in those types might express varying levels of variation from the larger population. It might be type related, it might not.
 

chubber

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Some are more equal than others? ;)
Animal Farm? :)

and I was about to say I get along with ISTJs

Are SJs the most common type? Yes
http://www.statisticbrain.com/myers-briggs-statistics/ said:
Temperment Total Male Female
SJ – Sensing Judging 46.4 % 43.1 % 49.5 %
SP – Sensing Perceiving 27 % 28.6 % 25.3 %
NF – Intuitive Feeling 16.4 % 19.4 % 18.5 %
NT – Intuitive Thinking 10.3 % 8.9 % 6.7 %
More "normal"? I would consider that a matter of opinion :tongue10:
 

greenfairy

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Originally Posted by http://www.statisticbrain.com/myers-briggs-statistics/
Temperment Total Male Female
SJ – Sensing Judging 46.4 % 43.1 % 49.5 %
SP – Sensing Perceiving 27 % 28.6 % 25.3 %
NF – Intuitive Feeling 16.4 % 19.4 % 18.5 %
NT – Intuitive Thinking 10.3 % 8.9 % 6.7 %

http://www.mypersonality.info/personality-types/population-gender/

There are a lot of different estimates for the type distribution. Personally I can't believe 1 out of 2 people are SJ's. 40% maybe I could believe. And it's unlikely in my opinion that 75% of the population are S's. Then again the places I hang out in generally contain more N's, and I probably attract more of them to myself.
 

PimpinMcBoltage

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Yeah people probably fit into S and J categories because those two things would be valued in a modern society that values proof and organization over a more random and uncertain way of perceiving things. After all someone who comes to conclusions out of nowhere is generally seen as a crank.

I doubt a lot of people have very well differentiated Si. Although such a thing is very difficult to grasp for me (because I see it more than what it actually is?). It might be more common than what I think it is, but the amount of people who I can say are Si doms are practically Nil. Then again I think Pi doms as a whole are pretty hard to find, or their perception is so odd/incomprehensible to even themselves that someone who isn't them does not have a chance to understand it at all.
 

Showbread

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http://www.mypersonality.info/personality-types/population-gender/

There are a lot of different estimates for the type distribution. Personally I can't believe 1 out of 2 people are SJ's. 40% maybe I could believe. And it's unlikely in my opinion that 75% of the population are S's. Then again the places I hang out in generally contain more N's, and I probably attract more of them to myself.

Yeah, I agree, I have a hard time with it being that high as well. But, then again, basically all of my friends are Ns... So, my perspective may be a bit off.

In regards to the OP, I definitely don't feel normal!
 

Patches

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I think I'm quite unique. My personality, my interests, etc. Perhaps downright strange sometimes.

I'm more fond of the word, "simple". Not as a bad trait, but a positive one. I don't have grandiose or lofty desires. I don't need a great deal in this life to make me happy. I'm a person with simple needs and simple goals.

I think a lot of SJs would identify with that feeling.
 
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