[ISFJ] ISFJ characteristics. What sets you apart?

[Giggly]

As for me understanding Fi users, the only extensive experience I can point to having is with one INTJ and ESFP. (I'm generally unaware of most people's types)

Well, my sister is an ESFP I'm pretty sure, but we just had an argument so *sigh* I definitely don't understand her. She's fun though. I like being around her A LOT usually.

But the INTJ and I probably understand each other (yes, each other) better than anyone. I credit this to being individuals rather than types though.

Other than that, I don't understand this thread. lol

 

[OrangeAppled]

It's more than that though. ISFJs don't get INFPs very well at all. I think the INFPs get the ISFJs reasonably well however. They seem as completely different as types can be with respect to their internal workings.

I agree with this.

My ISFJ mother works very hard to try to understand me & only in recent years has made headway.
I honestly don't feel like I have the same difficulty in grasping her.

In relationships with ISFJs, I am always far more dominant. I don't know if that would be true with an e9 IxFP (because my mom is more dominant & feisty than my ISFP e9 step-dad), but she's not as independently stubborn as I am.

I think ISFJs & INFPs will only look alike if they're e9s, but they definitely won't think alike. Since MBTI tests go with behavioral patterns, perhaps that's why an ISFJ may mistype.

My ISFJ mom is e6w7 & as a 4w5, we are massively different. Our outward demeanor would never leave any thinking we're the same type. However, with the same interaction style & enneagram, I could see how confusion could occur. I have two e9 INFP friends who would more easily be confused with ISFJs than myself demeanor-wise, just because they have the more gentle, accommodating, nurturing thing going on. However, they are waaaay less organized, waaaaay more chaotic than any ISFJ I've ever known. Part of that may be because they actively pursue & create new perspectives & novelty.... ISFJs I know go along with change or hear new ideas, but seem less prone to cause it or seek it out over all. ISFJs are more curious about their environment & people within it, whether it's personal, local, or even cultural. INFPs can be very disinterested about people in a factual way. I had to learn & mimic others in showing personal interest that was not "heavy". I'm only really interested in people in understanding their psychology or emotional workings or perhaps pinging ideas back & forth with them, not so much their everyday lives. I'll be friends for years with someone & not know what they do for a living, for example.

INFPs are way more prone to being socially oblivious & the blunders that go with it; ISFJs seem aware, so that if bucking convention or expectations it's a conscious rebellion or rejection. Or they may be shy & awkward because of too much awareness. INFPs are way more oblivious & detached in their demeanor. They tend to be less outwardly animated/emotive & less openly expressive of feeling-values (what is important to them). My INFO e9 friend says she has a great "poker face", for example.

Anyway, I wrote more but then I got bored while "organizing" it....

Oh, the fact that the OP is wanting to hear specific experiences from individuals & self-reported facts sounds more ISFJ. I personally understand things better through theory & metaphor & stuff tends to resonate quickly or not. But gathering details to compare to your own experience & determine what is "real" is more Si. INFPs do that sometimes because of tertiary Si, but it's more often just confirming Ne hunches. It's like filling in a sketched out picture with some details whereas Si-dom are using building blocks & going piece by piece til a whole forms, or something like that.

 

[Southern Kross]

It's more than that though. ISFJs don't get INFPs very well at all. I think the INFPs get the ISFJs reasonably well however. They seem as completely different as types can be with respect to their internal workings.

My experience of ISFJs is that they incredibly sensitive to others and their needs, through their naturally strong empathy. Perhaps they might not perceive all the inner workings of people as well as a INFP, but they make up for it with the willingness to understand and to accommodate where they can. There is an assumption that being able to comprehend others well equates to sensitivity, but it's not always true.

Like [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION], my Mum's a ISFJ (probably a 6w7 as well) and there are few people that are as sensitive to my needs as she is. She can work out the external patterns of my behaviour very well, but perhaps doesn't entirely understand the internal rationale behind it. I think she has no understanding of what goes on in my head.

I also agree that I'm more dominant than her too. She can certainly be very stroppy and stubborn (especially when it comes to moral matters) but I suppose I'm more firm and decisive - and she tends to give in to me. However, I'm much more cautious and even-handed with my judgements. If something offends my Mum's values, she makes a snap judgement and logic is thrown out the window. She rants and rails over it, using endless statements filled with self-confirming bias, prejudice and wild assumptions. I'm much less reactive and weigh the various arguments quietly in my own head. I often play the devil's advocate with her, even when I agree, because I feel to need to resist her leap to conclusions.

I would say characterise ISFJs in the following ways:
Loyal
Steadfast
Self sacrificing and have a strong sense of duty to others (the men may be described as gallant, even)
Empathetic
Warm and kind
Nurturing
Accommodating
Uncertain and wavering about issues that aren't immediately clear to them
Sensitive - they don't handle criticism well (much worse than this INFP too)
Typically aren't at all assertive, except when they are around close family/friends (or if they're really in a bad mood)
Masters of the anecdote

All these don't sound terribly attractive qualities but when you see how they all come together it's more impressive. It can have the air of quiet, unsung heroism. Few leap to the aid and defence of the mistreated and disadvantaged like ISFJs. Many have sympathies for people in such situations, but ISFJs actually act on them. IMO they're far more actively and openly kind than INFPs.

 

[tinker683]

I would have to agree that I am not very good at reading the innermost workings of an individual and of judging people by their past experiences but...really...if you're not willing to tell me these things, what else do I've got to go on? If you're willing to tell me what you need then I'll accommodate as best I can. If I'm misunderstanding you it's because your behavior is contradictory to the information you are giving me and I see that as more your problem and less mine.

If you're unwilling to discuss your feelings or if you yourself don't know quite how you feel about something, I don't think it's fair to hold me responsible for making false assumptions about why you're doing things. I'm doing the best I can with the information I've got

ETA: Also, what you may think you need may in fact NOT be what you in fact actually need

 

[Hecuba]

I would have to agree that I am not very good at reading the innermost workings of an individual and of judging people by their past experiences but...really...if you're not willing to tell me these things, what else do I've got to go on? If you're willing to tell me what you need then I'll accommodate as best I can. If I'm misunderstanding you it's because your behavior is contradictory to the information you are giving me and I see that as more your problem and less mine.

If you're unwilling to discuss your feelings or if you yourself don't know quite how you feel about something, I don't think it's fair to hold me responsible for making false assumptions about why you're doing things. I'm doing the best I can with the information I've got

ETA: Also, what you may think you need may in fact NOT be what you in fact actually need

I can relate, to a degree, yes. Another thing, is my reluctance to accept and let go. Much to the annoyance of my friends (INTJ & INFP mostly)! People think I have trust issues, but it's a part of a larger issue. Like I explained in the thread I started I can be over protective and in fact I am being suffocating and over stepping my boundaries by being too inquisitive and quick to make assumptions. I pay attention to my gut feelings which often fail me, but I tend to be a fiercely reactionary and defensive spirit. It's a shame since I care a lot for my friends and my family and I hate when I get stuck on an assumption.

 

[tinker683]

I can relate, to a degree, yes. Another thing, is my reluctance to accept and let go. Much to the annoyance of my friends (INTJ & INFP mostly)! People think I have trust issues, but it's a part of a larger issue. Like I explained in the thread I started I can be over protective and in fact I am being suffocating and over stepping my boundaries by being too inquisitive and quick to make assumptions. I pay attention to my gut feelings which often fail me, but I tend to be a fiercely reactionary and defensive spirit. It's a shame since I care a lot for my friends and my family and I hate when I get stuck on an assumption.

I used to be that way with my friends and such when I was much younger but I quickly discovered people dislike being protected, so I stopped it. I might quietly tell myself "You're going to screw yourself up with this..." but I don't stop people from making what I feel are mistakes. If someone else tries to hurt someone I care about, I try and politely intervene and will escalate it depending on their behavior.

 

[Hecuba]

I used to be that way with my friends and such when I was much younger but I quickly discovered people dislike being protected, so I stopped it. I might quietly tell myself "You're going to screw yourself up with this..." but I don't stop people from making what I feel are mistakes. If someone else tries to hurt someone I care about, I try and politely intervene and will escalate it depending on their behavior.

Ah, this is something I am guilty of. I also feel friends purposefully ignore me due to this over protective nature of mine. I learned recently to let go in one case, it took me crying non stop for three days and ruminating in suicidal thoughts but then I realized the problem, it was what you described. Once I talk to this friend again, I hope to just let him be when he needs it, and to trust in fate and that he could watch out for himself with who should be supportive and there to listen and to support him rather than pressure him. If I didn't value this friend I'd be like "Whatever" but since I want to save the ass of this friendship I nipped the problem in the bud and I do not intend to make this mistake again. Lesson tacked.

 

[tinker683]

Ah, this is something I am guilty of. I also feel friends purposefully ignore me due to this over protective nature of mine. I learned recently to let go in one case, it took me crying non stop for three days and ruminating in suicidal thoughts but then I realized the problem, it was what you described. Once I talk to this friend again, I hope to just let him be when he needs it, and to trust in fate and that he could watch out for himself with who should be supportive and there to listen and to support him rather than pressure him. If I didn't value this friend I'd be like "Whatever" but since I want to save the ass of this friendship I nipped the problem in the bud and I do not intend to make this mistake again. Lesson tacked.

Ok, firstly, WHOA! to the bolded!!!

I think you seriously need to consider talking to a therapist or professional. If that's how you react to someone in that situation, then it sounds to me that you have issues controlling your emotions or how they impact you.

 

[FDG]

I would have to agree that I am not very good at reading the innermost workings of an individual and of judging people by their past experiences but...really...if you're not willing to tell me these things, what else do I've got to go on? If you're willing to tell me what you need then I'll accommodate as best I can. If I'm misunderstanding you it's because your behavior is contradictory to the information you are giving me and I see that as more your problem and less mine.

If you're unwilling to discuss your feelings or if you yourself don't know quite how you feel about something, I don't think it's fair to hold me responsible for making false assumptions about why you're doing things. I'm doing the best I can with the information I've got

You might think it's his-her problem and it's unfair, but it might very well be that being able to do that will make your relationship with him/her better or smoother or deeper, thus I think it's more of a matter of results rather than anything else.

 

[Hecuba]

Ok, firstly, WHOA! to the bolded!!!

I think you seriously need to consider talking to a therapist or professional. If that's how you react to someone in that situation, then it sounds to me that you have issues controlling your emotions or how they impact you.

Thank you for the concern! Well, I know that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I threatened suicide often in the face of an argument. But how am I going to solve things with the person if I off myself? It'd be kind of hard if I was dead. I could haunt them and all, and be a passive-aggressive ISFJ ghost. Okay, seriously I did threaten suicide to this friend but I'd never do it though I would jump in front of a bullet for that friend if I had too.

 

[Giggly]

You might think it's his-her problem and it's unfair, but it might very well be that being able to do that will make your relationship with him/her better or smoother or deeper, thus I think it's more of a matter of results rather than anything else.

I agree but it almost sounds like we're talking about mind reading here.

And I know that having this ability would be beneficial in a relationship, but it can't be a good idea to continue in, or enable someone else to continue in, a pattern of their actions (external) not matching their intentions (internal)? Maybe there's a healthy middle ground here and we're talking about S vs N stuff but it seems like a line should be drawn somewhere if these two things are constantly contradictory.

 

[tinker683]

I agree but it almost sounds like we're talking about mind reading here.

And I know that having this ability would be beneficial in a relationship, but it can't be a good idea to continue in, or enable someone else to continue in, a pattern of their actions (external) not matching their intentions (internal)? Maybe there's a healthy middle ground here and we're talking about S vs N stuff but it seems like a line should be drawn somewhere if these two things are constantly contradictory.

I was about to post something like this but then Giggly went and said it for me

I understand what your saying and I would like to say that I really try my best to understand my partners needs and I'm all about picking battles and trying to win more flies with honey and all of that...

But the truth is there is only so much I can do and I am doing the best I can and I feel it's unfair for the other party, being they're claiming to have a better perception of what goes on inside someone's head better than me, should be able to understand that I'm trying my best and should t blame me for their inability to either accurately express their feelings or desire to articulate them

 

[PeaceBaby]

I hope the OP returns and sees this thread evolution; it may provide some helpful info. [MENTION=17494]Ayelless[/MENTION] - come back!

[MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION]; [MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]: I align more with highlander's descriptions on the ISFJ. My mom is ISFJ. As for the gifts discussion, she often gives the gifts she thinks are the "right" gifts, as though the thing that counts is the actual giving of something, rather than really reading the other person to ascertain what would be delightful. (Examples: one of my brothers works in a brewery, and she was going to give him beer from a competitor for XMas - for my son, she was going to give him a 5 car washes coupon when the nearest gas station of that brand is nearly half an hour away and he works at a gas station - for my daughter, a subscription to a lay-person's magazine in her field, rather than one at her level of expertise. I can go on, those are just from the last few months ...) She means well enough though. My hubs and her have the same taste in books, and she often gives him the novels she has already finished.

So, if you get a book from my Mom, you can be assured she's already read it, no matter how much she takes care not to crack the spine.

Lists are the solution here. She wants to please, so the provision of a list works best. Still though, she will vet the list if she doesn't "like" what's on it. My ESFJ MIL loves the same kind of thing - lists are prevalent on that side of the family. (Which is where I learned about gift lists and how useful they can be!)

I can sense my Mom's internal state and give her what she "needs" and she literally watches me for emotional reaction all the time. In this way, I have more control over our interactions than does she. If I don't externally exude emotions, nothing is known. Her ability to internally gauge where I'm at is extremely limited. The strange irony to me is that there are acceptable and unacceptable emotions. As an emotionally wired youngster with two SJ parents, I learned very young to simply hide my emotional reactions because it was too painful to share them and have them judged for appropriateness. My Mom would be ready with social judging; my ISTJ Dad, in matters of practical judgement. My Mom was awkward when I would cry and my Dad would tell me to suck it up and quit bawling. Even now as a seasoned adult, when I express what I want to do / am doing / am feeling, their knee-jerk response is still to comment on appropriateness, feasibility and practicality.

I still get the urge to shake off the iron chains and tear things to the ground.

[MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION] - how interesting that we three have ISFJ mommas. I do relate to your posts, to the snap judgements and dominance aspect of what you share. Even as a 9, I know I have a certain control in our dynamic and I use it. I'm uncomfortable using emotions to do it, but it's the most reliable way to help channel things to a less judgmental state. My Mom will often call, heated about one thing or another, and I present alternate viewpoints, and use a subtle kind of emoting to help her see that there are (almost always) more than one way to interpret a situation, whilst still trying to preserve the emotional validity of her feeling offended in the first place.

We could probably have a great convo about all this stuff sometime ...

Anyways, back to the OP - I think the key between ascertaining what type you are is whether you resonate with reading the internal states of other people or looking for external validation and emotional cues. If talk of the inner world seems foreign to you, you are more likely an ISFJ.

 

[Giggly]

Ironically, I have not meet an NFP who's read me correctly. I feel more understood by NFJs and SF's.

 

[FDG]

I agree but it almost sounds like we're talking about mind reading here.

And I know that having this ability would be beneficial in a relationship, but it can't be a good idea to continue in, or enable someone else to continue in, a pattern of their actions (external) not matching their intentions (internal)? Maybe there's a healthy middle ground here and we're talking about S vs N stuff but it seems like a line should be drawn somewhere if these two things are constantly contradictory.

Well, yeah it's likely not long-term healthy, but it may be okay/useful to connect with people you only interact briefly, or once in a while; or get someone "unstuck" form their rut, when they're normally communicative but they are having specific troubles. Although if it's not something that comes naturally, I also don't see the point of spending a lot of time in its development.

I align more with highlander's descriptions on the ISFJ. My mom is ISFJ. As for the gifts discussion, she often gives the gifts she thinks are the "right" gifts, as though the only thing that counts is the actual giving of something, rather than really reading the other person to ascertain what would be delightful. (Examples: one of my brothers works in a brewery, and she was going to give him beer from a competitor for XMas - for my son, she was going to give him a 5 car washes coupon when the nearest gas station of that brand is nearly half an hour away and he works at a gas station - for my daughter, a subscription to a lay-person's magazine in her field, rather than one at her level of expertise. I can go on, those are just from the last few months ...) She means well enough, and oh she's so cheap. My hubs and her have the same taste in books, and she often gives him the novels she has already finished.

Eh, I don't really think all ISFJs are that unsophisticated. Maybe they need to grow up in a more liberal or intellectual environment, but I've met a good number of them who are not so "square" in their thinking.

 

[Hecuba]

Ironically, I have not meet an NFP who's read me correctly. I feel more understood by NFJs and SF's.

Likewise, and I think it is mutual though I like all the INFPs I have met. Though the INFP I have in mind has read me fairly well in the past.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Ironically, I have not meet an NFP who's read me correctly. I feel more understood by NFJs and SF's.

I don't doubt you do feel more understood by those types. You are, because you share more in common.

 

[tinker683]

Ironically, I have not meet an NFP who's read me correctly. I feel more understood by NFJs and SF's.

Ditto. My ENFJ-ex gets me better than anyone else I know

 

[PeaceBaby]

Eh, I don't really think all ISFJs are that unsophisticated. Maybe they need to grow up in a more liberal or intellectual environment, but I've met a good number of them who are not so "square" in their thinking.

Nor did I say they are.

I am doing that "NFP thing" where we all share our individual stories to ascertain and assemble the patterns amongst us.

Your experience may vary.

 

[Giggly]

Well, yeah it's likely not long-term healthy, but it may be okay/useful to connect with people you only interact briefly, or once in a while; or get someone "unstuck" form their rut, when they're normally communicative but they are having specific troubles. Although if it's not something that comes naturally, I also don't see the point of spending a lot of time in its development.

That sounds good to me.