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  1. #21
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    As for me understanding Fi users, the only extensive experience I can point to having is with one INTJ and ESFP. (I'm generally unaware of most people's types)

    Well, my sister is an ESFP I'm pretty sure, but we just had an argument so *sigh* I definitely don't understand her. She's fun though. I like being around her A LOT usually.

    But the INTJ and I probably understand each other (yes, each other) better than anyone. I credit this to being individuals rather than types though.

    Other than that, I don't understand this thread. lol

  2. #22
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    It's more than that though. ISFJs don't get INFPs very well at all. I think the INFPs get the ISFJs reasonably well however. They seem as completely different as types can be with respect to their internal workings.
    I agree with this.

    My ISFJ mother works very hard to try to understand me & only in recent years has made headway.
    I honestly don't feel like I have the same difficulty in grasping her.

    In relationships with ISFJs, I am always far more dominant. I don't know if that would be true with an e9 IxFP (because my mom is more dominant & feisty than my ISFP e9 step-dad), but she's not as independently stubborn as I am.

    I think ISFJs & INFPs will only look alike if they're e9s, but they definitely won't think alike. Since MBTI tests go with behavioral patterns, perhaps that's why an ISFJ may mistype.

    My ISFJ mom is e6w7 & as a 4w5, we are massively different. Our outward demeanor would never leave any thinking we're the same type. However, with the same interaction style & enneagram, I could see how confusion could occur. I have two e9 INFP friends who would more easily be confused with ISFJs than myself demeanor-wise, just because they have the more gentle, accommodating, nurturing thing going on. However, they are waaaay less organized, waaaaay more chaotic than any ISFJ I've ever known. Part of that may be because they actively pursue & create new perspectives & novelty.... ISFJs I know go along with change or hear new ideas, but seem less prone to cause it or seek it out over all. ISFJs are more curious about their environment & people within it, whether it's personal, local, or even cultural. INFPs can be very disinterested about people in a factual way. I had to learn & mimic others in showing personal interest that was not "heavy". I'm only really interested in people in understanding their psychology or emotional workings or perhaps pinging ideas back & forth with them, not so much their everyday lives. I'll be friends for years with someone & not know what they do for a living, for example.

    INFPs are way more prone to being socially oblivious & the blunders that go with it; ISFJs seem aware, so that if bucking convention or expectations it's a conscious rebellion or rejection. Or they may be shy & awkward because of too much awareness. INFPs are way more oblivious & detached in their demeanor. They tend to be less outwardly animated/emotive & less openly expressive of feeling-values (what is important to them). My INFO e9 friend says she has a great "poker face", for example.

    Anyway, I wrote more but then I got bored while "organizing" it....

    Oh, the fact that the OP is wanting to hear specific experiences from individuals & self-reported facts sounds more ISFJ. I personally understand things better through theory & metaphor & stuff tends to resonate quickly or not. But gathering details to compare to your own experience & determine what is "real" is more Si. INFPs do that sometimes because of tertiary Si, but it's more often just confirming Ne hunches. It's like filling in a sketched out picture with some details whereas Si-dom are using building blocks & going piece by piece til a whole forms, or something like that.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #23
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    It's more than that though. ISFJs don't get INFPs very well at all. I think the INFPs get the ISFJs reasonably well however. They seem as completely different as types can be with respect to their internal workings.
    My experience of ISFJs is that they incredibly sensitive to others and their needs, through their naturally strong empathy. Perhaps they might not perceive all the inner workings of people as well as a INFP, but they make up for it with the willingness to understand and to accommodate where they can. There is an assumption that being able to comprehend others well equates to sensitivity, but it's not always true.

    Like @OrangeAppled, my Mum's a ISFJ (probably a 6w7 as well) and there are few people that are as sensitive to my needs as she is. She can work out the external patterns of my behaviour very well, but perhaps doesn't entirely understand the internal rationale behind it. I think she has no understanding of what goes on in my head.

    I also agree that I'm more dominant than her too. She can certainly be very stroppy and stubborn (especially when it comes to moral matters) but I suppose I'm more firm and decisive - and she tends to give in to me. However, I'm much more cautious and even-handed with my judgements. If something offends my Mum's values, she makes a snap judgement and logic is thrown out the window. She rants and rails over it, using endless statements filled with self-confirming bias, prejudice and wild assumptions. I'm much less reactive and weigh the various arguments quietly in my own head. I often play the devil's advocate with her, even when I agree, because I feel to need to resist her leap to conclusions.

    I would say characterise ISFJs in the following ways:
    Loyal
    Steadfast
    Self sacrificing and have a strong sense of duty to others (the men may be described as gallant, even)
    Empathetic
    Warm and kind
    Nurturing
    Accommodating
    Uncertain and wavering about issues that aren't immediately clear to them
    Sensitive - they don't handle criticism well (much worse than this INFP too)
    Typically aren't at all assertive, except when they are around close family/friends (or if they're really in a bad mood)
    Masters of the anecdote

    All these don't sound terribly attractive qualities but when you see how they all come together it's more impressive. It can have the air of quiet, unsung heroism. Few leap to the aid and defence of the mistreated and disadvantaged like ISFJs. Many have sympathies for people in such situations, but ISFJs actually act on them. IMO they're far more actively and openly kind than INFPs.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #24
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    I would have to agree that I am not very good at reading the innermost workings of an individual and of judging people by their past experiences but...really...if you're not willing to tell me these things, what else do I've got to go on? If you're willing to tell me what you need then I'll accommodate as best I can. If I'm misunderstanding you it's because your behavior is contradictory to the information you are giving me and I see that as more your problem and less mine.

    If you're unwilling to discuss your feelings or if you yourself don't know quite how you feel about something, I don't think it's fair to hold me responsible for making false assumptions about why you're doing things. I'm doing the best I can with the information I've got

    ETA: Also, what you may think you need may in fact NOT be what you in fact actually need
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  5. #25
    Member Hecuba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    I would have to agree that I am not very good at reading the innermost workings of an individual and of judging people by their past experiences but...really...if you're not willing to tell me these things, what else do I've got to go on? If you're willing to tell me what you need then I'll accommodate as best I can. If I'm misunderstanding you it's because your behavior is contradictory to the information you are giving me and I see that as more your problem and less mine.

    If you're unwilling to discuss your feelings or if you yourself don't know quite how you feel about something, I don't think it's fair to hold me responsible for making false assumptions about why you're doing things. I'm doing the best I can with the information I've got

    ETA: Also, what you may think you need may in fact NOT be what you in fact actually need
    I can relate, to a degree, yes. Another thing, is my reluctance to accept and let go. Much to the annoyance of my friends (INTJ & INFP mostly)! People think I have trust issues, but it's a part of a larger issue. Like I explained in the thread I started I can be over protective and in fact I am being suffocating and over stepping my boundaries by being too inquisitive and quick to make assumptions. I pay attention to my gut feelings which often fail me, but I tend to be a fiercely reactionary and defensive spirit. It's a shame since I care a lot for my friends and my family and I hate when I get stuck on an assumption.

  6. #26
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecuba View Post
    I can relate, to a degree, yes. Another thing, is my reluctance to accept and let go. Much to the annoyance of my friends (INTJ & INFP mostly)! People think I have trust issues, but it's a part of a larger issue. Like I explained in the thread I started I can be over protective and in fact I am being suffocating and over stepping my boundaries by being too inquisitive and quick to make assumptions. I pay attention to my gut feelings which often fail me, but I tend to be a fiercely reactionary and defensive spirit. It's a shame since I care a lot for my friends and my family and I hate when I get stuck on an assumption.
    I used to be that way with my friends and such when I was much younger but I quickly discovered people dislike being protected, so I stopped it. I might quietly tell myself "You're going to screw yourself up with this..." but I don't stop people from making what I feel are mistakes. If someone else tries to hurt someone I care about, I try and politely intervene and will escalate it depending on their behavior.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  7. #27
    Member Hecuba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    I used to be that way with my friends and such when I was much younger but I quickly discovered people dislike being protected, so I stopped it. I might quietly tell myself "You're going to screw yourself up with this..." but I don't stop people from making what I feel are mistakes. If someone else tries to hurt someone I care about, I try and politely intervene and will escalate it depending on their behavior.
    Ah, this is something I am guilty of. I also feel friends purposefully ignore me due to this over protective nature of mine. I learned recently to let go in one case, it took me crying non stop for three days and ruminating in suicidal thoughts but then I realized the problem, it was what you described. Once I talk to this friend again, I hope to just let him be when he needs it, and to trust in fate and that he could watch out for himself with who should be supportive and there to listen and to support him rather than pressure him. If I didn't value this friend I'd be like "Whatever" but since I want to save the ass of this friendship I nipped the problem in the bud and I do not intend to make this mistake again. Lesson tacked.

  8. #28
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecuba View Post
    Ah, this is something I am guilty of. I also feel friends purposefully ignore me due to this over protective nature of mine. I learned recently to let go in one case, it took me crying non stop for three days and ruminating in suicidal thoughts but then I realized the problem, it was what you described. Once I talk to this friend again, I hope to just let him be when he needs it, and to trust in fate and that he could watch out for himself with who should be supportive and there to listen and to support him rather than pressure him. If I didn't value this friend I'd be like "Whatever" but since I want to save the ass of this friendship I nipped the problem in the bud and I do not intend to make this mistake again. Lesson tacked.
    Ok, firstly, WHOA! to the bolded!!!

    I think you seriously need to consider talking to a therapist or professional. If that's how you react to someone in that situation, then it sounds to me that you have issues controlling your emotions or how they impact you.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  9. #29
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    I would have to agree that I am not very good at reading the innermost workings of an individual and of judging people by their past experiences but...really...if you're not willing to tell me these things, what else do I've got to go on? If you're willing to tell me what you need then I'll accommodate as best I can. If I'm misunderstanding you it's because your behavior is contradictory to the information you are giving me and I see that as more your problem and less mine.

    If you're unwilling to discuss your feelings or if you yourself don't know quite how you feel about something, I don't think it's fair to hold me responsible for making false assumptions about why you're doing things. I'm doing the best I can with the information I've got
    You might think it's his-her problem and it's unfair, but it might very well be that being able to do that will make your relationship with him/her better or smoother or deeper, thus I think it's more of a matter of results rather than anything else.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  10. #30
    Member Hecuba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    Ok, firstly, WHOA! to the bolded!!!

    I think you seriously need to consider talking to a therapist or professional. If that's how you react to someone in that situation, then it sounds to me that you have issues controlling your emotions or how they impact you.
    Thank you for the concern! Well, I know that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I threatened suicide often in the face of an argument. But how am I going to solve things with the person if I off myself? It'd be kind of hard if I was dead. I could haunt them and all, and be a passive-aggressive ISFJ ghost. Okay, seriously I did threaten suicide to this friend but I'd never do it though I would jump in front of a bullet for that friend if I had too.

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