[SJ] SJs, please help me figure out which variety of SJ my boyfriend is.

[skylights]

Dear SJs,

I've been dating my boyfriend for a year and a half now, and while I am very sure he is a Guardian, I can't for the life of me figure out which SJ he is. He seems to toe the line between E and I, and Fe/Ti and Te/Fi. We've talked about it before, but he has passing interest in the MBTI. I am sure that he is a type 9w1 sp-dominant on the Enneagram. I'd really appreciate your help narrowing it down.

Here is a list of characteristics that seem pertinent to typing...

T/F:

• I would describe him as calm, considerate, knowledgeable, and jovial.
• He is a teacher, but also considered going into social work. He really enjoys helping people become more self-sufficient.
• He was a language major with a specialization in Russian literature. He loves the illustrative detail of day-to-day life in the literature, the evocation of the past and history, and the personal experience of the characters - how they overcome their circumstances and find fulfillment even in prisons, etc.
• He has a pet interest in policing and law enforcement, as well as in political systems. He really seems to be fascinated by the intricacy of the systems, and their applications. It's funny because I cannot really see him as a police officer (though neither could he - it was what he thought he wanted to do when he was much younger, but he decided against it later. He's much more of an encourager than an enforcer.)
• He has a tendency to get into detailed explanations of rationalization - for some reason it seems to make him comfortable. I used to get frustrated by it but now I understand it as just something he needs to externalize.
• When I share my emotions, he tends to relate a situation where he had a similar emotional response.
• Emotionally, he is very moderate. He's generally very even-keeled and optimistic, but he'll demonstrate anger, sadness, excitement, and anxiety. He can get very wound up about things and worry, and sometimes he really needs to just take care of (whatever) immediately so that he gets the anxiety out.
• He's very caring of me, opening doors, asking if I'm okay, sending me little texts to make me smile. He always seems to know when I feel upset.
• I have asked him before where he derives his ethics, and he says mostly from our culture and society. When we had a disagreement at one point, I was arguing that I was "right" in moral terms, and he was arguing that he was right in the sense of what would be most socially appropriate.
• He very strongly dislikes planning, short of lesson planning for his classes.
• He gets quite upset if I do something socially inappropriate that embarrasses him, though he is also blunt sometimes (ie, if someone is rude to us, he doesn't seem to have any qualms about being rude back). He's very situationally aware.
• In my eyes, I would say his greatest strength is in his passion for supporting others while helping them grow in their own way. His greatest weakness seems like his tendency to disconnect if he is uncomfortable.
• I think he fits the ISFJ "Protector Supporter" name much better than "Planner Inspector" name - but he's so rational, I'm hesitant to rule out ISTJ. He doesn't display either of the common weaknesses I've read about for the types, nitpicking for ISTJ or neediness for ISFJ. Still, being a 9 makes him quite challenging to judge either way, because he's just not very motivated to push anything on others. He's either a very considerate and compassionate STJ or a very level-headed and rational SFJ.

I/E:

• He enjoys spending time at public cafes on his computer or reading.
• He always says that he will try anything once.
• He mostly does things with me, like going out to dinner or traveling to nearby cities. We love to explore together, but mostly in terms of discovering new places and learning new things.
• He enjoys going out with large groups or small groups of friends, but does not very often because he puts his work and school responsibilities and his relationship with me first.
• As a teacher, he enjoys working with small groups most.
• He needs a fair amount of time alone or not directly interacting to relax.
• I lean towards I for him, but he's quite ambiverted, either way.

Going by functions alone, I am very inclined to say he is a definite Si dominant, but he is more effusive and outwardly engaging than ISFJ and ISTJ descriptions make the types out to seem.

Please ask me any questions about him if you feel like they'd better clarify his type. My only impression overall is that I doubt he is an ESTJ. He's probably either ISTJ or ISFJ. I'm leaning ISTJ right now.

Thank you!!

 

[Winds of Thor]

I'm not an SJ but I know many...and for what it's worth coming from an entp I think he's an ISTJ. And either closer to the P side of the scale than most ISTJs...or his enneagram weighs heavily with his personality which could explain his apparent dislike of planning. But I know you want to hear from SJs so that's all I'll add here.

 

[Giggly]

ISFJ. I am borderline I/E and J/P and this makes it very difficult to pinpoint a type. Your boyfriend seems that way too with I/E and T/F. It may even be impossible to pinpoint one type depending on the day and what you observe of him.

 

[/DG/]

I am inclined to say ISFJ as well.

The calmness and lack of particularly extraverted descriptions leads me to believe he is an extravert. I will have to take your word for the SJ part. It makes sense here, I'm just not good at telling S/N. I am also leaning more toward Fe than Te simply because of his interest in social work and other people in general. However, this isn't necessarily so. If I remember correctly, [MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION] does social work as well, but he is an ENTJ. Probably the last person you would think to do something like that. I wonder if their motivations differ.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Maybe he's an esfj who's just introverting right now....?

 

[Lark]

I am inclined to say ISFJ as well.

The calmness and lack of particularly extraverted descriptions leads me to believe he is an extravert. I will have to take your word for the SJ part. It makes sense here, I'm just not good at telling S/N. I am also leaning more toward Fe than Te simply because of his interest in social work and other people in general. However, this isn't necessarily so. If I remember correctly, [MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION] does social work as well, but he is an ENTJ. Probably the last person you would think to do something like that. I wonder if their motivations differ.

Why is that? What do ENTJs 'do'? And how do you know this? What do they do if that career is not available or antithetical to their purposes?

 

[Lark]

I am inclined to say ISFJ as well.

The calmness and lack of particularly extraverted descriptions leads me to believe he is an extravert. I will have to take your word for the SJ part. It makes sense here, I'm just not good at telling S/N. I am also leaning more toward Fe than Te simply because of his interest in social work and other people in general. However, this isn't necessarily so. If I remember correctly, [MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION] does social work as well, but he is an ENTJ. Probably the last person you would think to do something like that. I wonder if their motivations differ.

Why is that? What do ENTJs 'do'? And how do you know this? What do they do if that career is not available or antithetical to their purposes?

 

[/DG/]

Why is that? What do ENTJs 'do'? And how do you know this? What do they do if that career is not available or antithetical to their purposes?

I don't mean it's not possible, it's just not...hmm...I don't know the word I'm looking for. Intuitive maybe? They just aren't typically associated with each other.

I'm just saying that social work seems like it would appeal to Fe-types more than other types. Of course there is room for Te, but it's not what you would think first.

It's like an INTJ artist. Of course they exist, but when I think artist I tend to think of ISFP or INFP.

 

[Nicki]

He seems like a mellow ISFJ.

 

[pyriticsilence]

I'm also going to go with ISFJ. I'll give an explanation if you want.

 

[Lark]

I don't mean it's not possible, it's just not...hmm...I don't know the word I'm looking for. Intuitive maybe? They just aren't typically associated with each other.

I'm just saying that social work seems like it would appeal to Fe-types more than other types. Of course there is room for Te, but it's not what you would think first.

It's like an INTJ artist. Of course they exist, but when I think artist I tend to think of ISFP or INFP.

Well I can see why the INTJ artist is counter intuitive, the same as I think that Fe or Fi is more associated with mysticism or Sensors with detective work or investigatory work.

The thing about associating social work and Fe or Fi, Feeling types anyway (I dont get that other abbreviations heavy variety of MBTI) is that I think its based upon some lousy stereotypes, in fact lots and lots of lousy stereotypes, both about the job and about the type, when you consider the extent to which CBT and reframing, rephrasing and reflecting back is involved in the most basic sorts of practice its something which SHOULD attract more thinking and judging types.

Mind you that could be what's wrong with the profession, that its got Feeling dominant types, including neurotic ones.

 

[skylights]

I'm not an SJ but I know many...and for what it's worth coming from an entp I think he's an ISTJ. And either closer to the P side of the scale than most ISTJs...or his enneagram weighs heavily with his personality which could explain his apparent dislike of planning. But I know you want to hear from SJs so that's all I'll add here.

I appreciate your input, SJ or not! He is very strongly J in terms of seeking closure (plus he tends to run 15 minutes early, I'm not sure most Ps are even capable of that), so I assume his enneagram weighs heavily, like you say. He is fairly routine and structured, so I think he doesn't really even have much need to plan in terms of regular life. He generally focuses on a 1-3 day ahead timespan, it seems, but he's very present-oriented. He's just not much one for dealing with the far future.

ISFJ. I am borderline I/E and J/P and this makes it very difficult to pinpoint a type. Your boyfriend seems that way too with I/E and T/F. It may even be impossible to pinpoint one type depending on the day and what you observe of him.

Thanks Giggly It's true that he can seem to change from day to day, even hour to hour! I assume his T/F preferences are very, very close. That's another reason I'm leaning ISxJ, because it would make much more sense for his closely-matched T and F to be aux and tert, rather than dom and asp.

I am inclined to say ISFJ as well.

The calmness and lack of particularly extraverted descriptions leads me to believe he is an extravert. I will have to take your word for the SJ part. It makes sense here, I'm just not good at telling S/N. I am also leaning more toward Fe than Te simply because of his interest in social work and other people in general. However, this isn't necessarily so. If I remember correctly, @Lark does social work as well, but he is an ENTJ. Probably the last person you would think to do something like that. I wonder if their motivations differ.

I feel the same as you, DG, thanks for the explanation. Clearly his T and F are very close, and IRL he tends to keep his feelings inside so it's very hard for me to tell the extent to which he is processing in F terms. However, his choice of helping professions over enforcement professions suggests F to me, too. He does seem more people oriented than system oriented to me.

Maybe he's an esfj who's just introverting right now....?

It's definitely possible, AGA, thanks for the input. ESFJ was actually my first typing of him, when I first met him. He's quite enthusiastic in groups - it wasn't until I started living more of a day-to-day life with him that I began to see his more introverted side. And he does try quite hard to create harmony.

He seems like a mellow ISFJ.

Cool, thank you

I'm also going to go with ISFJ. I'll give an explanation if you want.

I would love to hear it if you wouldn't mind sharing. Thank you!

The thing about associating social work and Fe or Fi, Feeling types anyway (I dont get that other abbreviations heavy variety of MBTI) is that I think its based upon some lousy stereotypes, in fact lots and lots of lousy stereotypes, both about the job and about the type, when you consider the extent to which CBT and reframing, rephrasing and reflecting back is involved in the most basic sorts of practice its something which SHOULD attract more thinking and judging types.

Going by what I hear from the teachers and social workers in my life, those professions would benefit a lot from an influx of strong TJs. For all the career type-matching out there, I think there's also a lot to be said for having a range of personalities and strengths in any given field. While certain strengths may be more often in demand, a group will be more resilient, more innovative, and better equipped to handle any situation given diversity.

 

[Winds of Thor]

ISFJ. I am borderline I/E and J/P and this makes it very difficult to pinpoint a type. Your boyfriend seems that way too with I/E and T/F. It may even be impossible to pinpoint one type depending on the day and what you observe of him.

I think this too.

 

[tinker683]

As a male ISFJ, I'd say he has a *LOT* of similarities to my own personality. I'd be happy to bold some of the examples you gave to show you which ones most likely sound like me if you'd like.

But..yeah, he gets my vote as ISFJ as well

 

[Honor]

I dated a guy in college who was ISFJ, and there are a lot of similarities. My vote's ISFJ.

 

[skylights]

As a male ISFJ, I'd say he has a *LOT* of similarities to my own personality. I'd be happy to bold some of the examples you gave to show you which ones most likely sound like me if you'd like.

But..yeah, he gets my vote as ISFJ as well

I dated a guy in college who was ISFJ, and there are a lot of similarities. My vote's ISFJ.

Thank you both!

[MENTION=8485]tinker683[/MENTION], that'd be awesome, I would really appreciate it. As ISFJ 9w1 sx/sp you should be very similar to him!

I think the biggest question in my mind now, is that he's generally firm in his communication, which seems to fit the ISTJ profile better than ISFJ, which often makes ISFJs sound rather soft/meek - which he is not at all. He has very strong boundaries that he is not shy about expressing when he feels that he needs to for his own self-protection. He's generally gently teasing, and is always ready to go out of his way to lend a hand, but he is not often vocal about his feelings and does put himself first when he needs to for his own wellbeing (he will say something like, I'm sorry, I can't, I really need to leave now). He will be very clear about his point of view during a discussion and does not generally back down, but he clearly prefers cordial exchange - he doesn't like debate (neither do I) - and I have learned to be more careful of what I say so as not to offend him. I am very confident that he is self-preservation dominant, and I suspect that he is sp/sx, so that may have some bearing on his strong personal boundaries.

He just baffles me because he seems to run F and T at the same time, all the time, whereas for me I'm almost always running F and it's a very clear on/off when I'm running T or not. I'm leaning ISFJ now because I feel like he uses Feeling more externally and his reasoning seems Ti-ish in nature, concerned with the precision of logic. I feel like we run into little misunderstandings sometimes because I don't explain the logic side of things adequately enough for his understanding and he feels the need to clarify, and vice versa.

 

[tinker683]

As requested...

• I would describe him as calm, considerate, knowledgeable, and jovial.
• ...He loves the illustrative detail of day-to-day life in the literature, the evocation of the past and history, and the personal experience of the characters - how they overcome their circumstances and find fulfillment even in prisons, etc.
• He has a pet interest in policing and law enforcement, as well as in political systems. He really seems to be fascinated by the intricacy of the systems, and their applications. It's funny because I cannot really see him as a police officer (though neither could he - it was what he thought he wanted to do when he was much younger, but he decided against it later. He's much more of an encourager than an enforcer.)
• He has a tendency to get into detailed explanations of rationalization - for some reason it seems to make him comfortable. I used to get frustrated by it but now I understand it as just something he needs to externalize.
• When I share my emotions, he tends to relate a situation where he had a similar emotional response.
• Emotionally, he is very moderate. He's generally very even-keeled and optimistic, but he'll demonstrate anger, sadness, excitement, and anxiety. He can get very wound up about things and worry, and sometimes he really needs to just take care of (whatever) immediately so that he gets the anxiety out.
• He's very caring of me, opening doors, asking if I'm okay, sending me little texts to make me smile. He always seems to know when I feel upset.
• I have asked him before where he derives his ethics, and he says mostly from our culture and society. When we had a disagreement at one point, I was arguing that I was "right" in moral terms, and he was arguing that he was right in the sense of what would be most socially appropriate.
• In my eyes, I would say his greatest strength is in his passion for supporting others while helping them grow in their own way. His greatest weakness seems like his tendency to disconnect if he is uncomfortable.
• I think he fits the ISFJ "Protector Supporter" name much better than "Planner Inspector" name - but he's so rational, I'm hesitant to rule out ISTJ. He doesn't display either of the common weaknesses I've read about for the types, nitpicking for ISTJ or neediness for ISFJ. Still, being a 9 makes him quite challenging to judge either way, because he's just not very motivated to push anything on others. He's either a very considerate and compassionate STJ or a very level-headed and rational SFJ.

I would say all of this, except I can be very needy or clingy if I'm not getting enough attention or if my significant other isn't letting me close to them

• He enjoys spending time at public cafes on his computer or reading.
• He always says that he will try anything once.
• He mostly does things with me, like going out to dinner or traveling to nearby cities. We love to explore together, but mostly in terms of discovering new places and learning new things.
• He enjoys going out with large groups or small groups of friends, but does not very often because he puts his work and school responsibilities and his relationship with me first.
• As a teacher, he enjoys working with small groups most.
• He needs a fair amount of time alone or not directly interacting to relax.
• I lean towards I for him, but he's quite ambiverted, either way.

All of this sounds like me too, except when I'm out in large groups it's because of the individuals in that group...not because of the size of the group itself. If I don't particular care for the individuals of that group, then I'll more than likely not connect with them at all and not want to be around them.

Thank you both!

[MENTION=8485]tinker683[/MENTION], that'd be awesome, I would really appreciate it. As ISFJ 9w1 sx/sp you should be very similar to him!

I think the biggest question in my mind now, is that he's generally firm in his communication, which seems to fit the ISTJ profile better than ISFJ, which often makes ISFJs sound rather soft/meek - which he is not at all. He has very strong boundaries that he is not shy about expressing when he feels that he needs to for his own self-protection. He's generally gently teasing, and is always ready to go out of his way to lend a hand, but he is not often vocal about his feelings and does put himself first when he needs to for his own wellbeing (he will say something like, I'm sorry, I can't, I really need to leave now). He will be very clear about his point of view during a discussion and does not generally back down, but he clearly prefers cordial exchange - he doesn't like debate (neither do I) - and I have learned to be more careful of what I say so as not to offend him. I am very confident that he is self-preservation dominant, and I suspect that he is sp/sx, so that may have some bearing on his strong personal boundaries.

He just baffles me because he seems to run F and T at the same time, all the time, whereas for me I'm almost always running F and it's a very clear on/off when I'm running T or not. I'm leaning ISFJ now because I feel like he uses Feeling more externally and his reasoning seems Ti-ish in nature, concerned with the precision of logic. I feel like we run into little misunderstandings sometimes because I don't explain the logic side of things adequately enough for his understanding and he feels the need to clarify, and vice versa.

I can be the same way, but that was something I had to learn. If you've been walked all over/strung along/taken advantage of as many times as I have been, you learn to stand your ground. I did very aggressively at first but have learned to since tone it down, to be assertive but firm.

I've also tested ISFJ primarily but I have tested as ISTJ a few times. Marmotini once told me that she suspects I've developed my tert-Ti a little quicker than some my age (29 right now) or that it may be the fact that I have Asperger's Syndrome which might tamper down my feelings in some areas and in others cause me to express them in a very odd way. I don't know exactly.

In any event, as someone who is still mending a broken heart, it's very heartening for me to see that guys like me still have an appeal to some women out there I hope your S.O. makes you very happy.

 

[skylights]

Thank you so much, Tinker!!

I would say all of this, except I can be very needy or clingy if I'm not getting enough attention or if my significant other isn't letting me close to them

Hah, me too. Sx-doms

All of this sounds like me too, except when I'm out in large groups it's because of the individuals in that group...not because of the size of the group itself. If I don't particular care for the individuals of that group, then I'll more than likely not connect with them at all and not want to be around them.

Ah, that's interesting. I imagine he overlaps some in that - he definitely does avoid some people. I've learned that if he whisks us out of some public place, it's generally because of an old acquaintance (jackass manager, etc) that he doesn't want to see! Usually it seems what happens is he'll hang out with one friend then it turns into two, two to three, three to five, and soon enough he's seen eight friends in one night, lol. He has one close friend - ESxP, definitely - who is the life of the party and the people-gatherer!

I can be the same way, but that was something I had to learn. If you've been walked all over/strung along/taken advantage of as many times as I have been, you learn to stand your ground. I did very aggressively at first but have learned to since tone it down, to be assertive but firm.

I've also tested ISFJ primarily but I have tested as ISTJ a few times. Marmotini once told me that she suspects I've developed my tert-Ti a little quicker than some my age (29 right now) or that it may be the fact that I have Asperger's Syndrome which might tamper down my feelings in some areas and in others cause me to express them in a very odd way. I don't know exactly.

Ok, awesome, that makes sense. I think his Ti is pretty strong too, for whatever reason. I think his father is an ESTJ, which might help explain it. He's mentioned how he has trained himself to be more sociable, outgoing, vocal, etc., so perhaps that is the case with him, too. He gets along really well with my Ti-dom dad and brother, so that makes me lean more ISFJ than ISTJ, too. I usually run into Te/Ti conflict with them, but he doesn't seem to. And he and my ISTP brother seem to get along particularly well in terms of just how they live life and naturally approach situations, which makes a lot of sense if they share functions as well as enneatypes.

In any event, as someone who is still mending a broken heart, it's very heartening for me to see that guys like me still have an appeal to some women out there I hope your S.O. makes you very happy.

Thanks Tinker

And yes, very much so. It's hard for me to even put into words how amazing I think it is to find someone like him. I've always read that N should match N, but his groundedness and attention to life is one of the things I appreciate most... I feel like he draws me into the present and gets me to enjoy and live life, instead of being all pent up in my head like I usually am. He's kind and protective, calm and steady, firm and decisive, comforting and supportive, compassionate and helpful - I really can't imagine anything better and feel so lucky to have him. If you are anything remotely like that too, I can only imagine that someone will be very lucky to have you in the future, too.

 

[skylights]

I'm going to call this one at ISFJ, thank you so much SJs for all your help.

 

[roastingmallows]

Looks like I'm too late! But I'm glad you came to the conclusion of ISFJ. Your description of him SCREAMED ISFJ. ISFJs are by no means necessarily "meek" as you put it, particularly the male ISFJs. I had an ISFJ male professor last semester. I really enjoyed his teaching style. He was funny and helpful and straightforward. He was also very level headed and even keeled as far as I could tell.

Trust me. I know many ISFJs and a couple of ISTJs, and I have tons of respect for the ISFJs (in general moreso than the ISTJs.) in my life. They are all very intelligent, but with a touch of sensitivity.

I <3 XSFJs, and your boyfriend sounds like a great guy!