[MBTI General] Things SFJs hate about intuitives

[Phil P]

why don't you clean your room?!?!!? My room is organized, the clean part doesn't matter so much

Why are you soo WEIRD?!?!?! If there were as many N's as their are S's, you would be the weird ones.

Why do you have such useless interests? Because we don't waste our time on sports, facebook, and American Idol

You're so obsessed with fantasy crap that doesn't exist! Why do you play fantasy football? boring

Why don't you like football? Cause it's boring because John Madden doesn't announce anymore

You like classical music? Are you gay or something? Metal is much better. Classical strings music is annoying

etc

So there, take that

 

[roastingmallows]

That being said, I have a 3rd complaint: The way you guys get all petulant when I'm not interested in whatever "deep" topic happens to golden your goose. Guys, it's usually nothing personal, but if there is some deep topic I'm not interested in, it's for one of two reasons usually:
1) Because the topic just doesn't do anything for me. My interest in it may be passing or seasonal but over all it just doesn't happen to do anything for me. I'm sorry.
2) Because I feel, in spite of whatever pedantic or bombastic presentation you've made of the topic, that you in fact don't really know what you're talking about or you're talking about nothing of value. You guys have this habit of getting into these mental-masturbation-loops where it's like you get high off your knowledge of the topic and yourselves and that you start to veer out of the realm of having talking about anything of substance and you spend all your time on possibilities that have little chance of ever actually materializing. That is usually when you always lose me.

This. XD

Though, I'm not an SFJ, I am an SFP. This seems to sum up the most annoying things about intuitives quite well.

I have no HUGE issues with intuitives in real life, though online they can certainly be arrogant. In real life though, I know quite a few Ne users and just a couple of Ni users. (dom) Ne is a little scattered and airheaded for my liking. I love INFPs to death though. You'll never hear me utter a negative word about INFPs. I know a few XNFJs. The INFJ I know is totally out there and the two ENFJs I know are paranoid and overly concerned with interpersonal relationships. I only know one confirmed NT that I can think of. An ENTP. He is just as nuts as the ENFPs but a little more useful as he is good with computers.

So my consensus is this: intuitives are a little too out there and don't see the need to reel it in for the earthlings and think they're clever when more often than not they aren't. (or perhaps they are and it just isn't translating)

 

[Istbkleta]

turn into really ugly thoughts. Ugly thoughts, if not handled properly, can really contribute to mental illness.

Don't be afraid of your feelings. I am working on becoming more logical, but I'm doing my best to get out of my own comfort zone to grow.

You are right - INTPs suppress their Fe. It turns ugly when it's been suppressed.


But what you call ugly thoughts has nothing to do with that. It's probably your own suppressed Ti. You are rejecting your thoughts based on Fe measures of right and wrong/good and bad/beautiful and ugly.

In order to develop your logical side, you'll have to find a way to survive the journey your own ugly thoughts will take you on.

Ti is like following a crumb path in the dark forest. You are scared to death but you still have to see what's at the end. That's where the stoicism of Ti people comes from.

Example: "If my parents die tomorrow, I'll get their money and house"


Here's is the catch - this very SAME process is what made Einstein, Disney, Steve Jobs, Michelangelo tick.
How can something so obviously wrong as the example above produce such wonderful results?

 

[Phil P]

You are right - INTPs suppress their Fe. It turns ugly when it's been suppressed.


But what you call ugly thoughts has nothing to do with that. It's probably your own suppressed Ti. You are rejecting your thoughts based on Fe measures of right and wrong/good and bad/beautiful and ugly.

In order to develop your logical side, you'll have to find a way to survive the journey your own ugly thoughts will take you on.

Ti is like following a crumb path in the dark forest. You are scared to death but you still have to see what's at the end. That's where the stoicism of Ti people comes from.

Example: "If my parents die tomorrow, I'll get their money and house"


Here's is the catch - this very SAME process is what made Einstein, Disney, Steve Jobs, Michelangelo tick.
How can something so obviously wrong as the example above produce such wonderful results?

As far as negative emotions with INTP's, they come out rarely, but when they come out, they can cut deeper and are stronger than either the INTP or the other person wished for.

 

[skylights]

So my consensus is this: intuitives are a little too out there and don't see the need to reel it in for the earthlings

sadly sometimes it's easier said than done! it's like translating to another language... sometimes the idioms don't line up...

(i mean this between all P functions, Ni-Ne-Si-Se, not just N-S).

 

[Standuble]

So my consensus is this: intuitives are a little too out there and don't see the need to reel it in for the earthlings and think they're clever when more often than not they aren't. (or perhaps they are and it just isn't translating)

In my case it's not that I can't it's because I won't. It's a waste of time for the most part; a waste of both my time when simplifying and explaining doesn't serve me in any way but also a waste of theirs because they just dismiss it or humour it without understanding it after I explain it all. I do not have this problem with other intuitives.

In the end I just do my own thing and work behind the scenes a little (usually at work, at home I assert my position for the sake of it.) If they miss the connections and I see disaster coming I have two choices. I can either make them aware and "reel my concerns in for the earthlings" and stop them from falling into hot water or I can let them continue as a lesson to try and watch the chaos fly. E.g. my colleague has been consistently doing his job wrong simply because he is overlooking a key component which lies just outside of his main role which ties the bigger picture together into what the company is aiming for. The extent the consequence of his failure to consider is yet to be measured but I predict it could cause more than a few headaches. I have yet to tell him and if I do I will probably need to provide the explanation "sensor style" so he can grasp it and even then he would probably ignore or forget it!

 

[SpankyMcFly]

I am not an SFJ, but I will post the most common gripe I have against other intuitives. It's a work related one where I'm often in ESTJ mode taking care of operations and getting stuff done.

This INTP I work with thinks too much and slow. I don't wanna hear his ideas I want a solution, yesterday. If it ain't broke don't fix it! There is protocol and procedure for a reason, if you wanna change the rules do that later, not on my time. Stop trying to think outside the box, but if you must, SPEED it up there TURBO and DO something or get out of my way and let me handle it. Weird retard...

P.S. I feel better now that I got that off my chest.

 

[Standuble]

I am not an SFJ, but I will post the most common gripe I have against other intuitives. It's a work related one where I'm often in ESTJ mode taking care of operations and getting stuff done.

This INTP I work with thinks too much and slow. I don't wanna hear his ideas I want a solution, yesterday. If it ain't broke don't fix it! There is protocol and procedure for a reason, if you wanna change the rules do that later, not on my time. Stop trying to think outside the box, but if you must, SPEED it up there TURBO and DO something or get out of my way and let me handle it. Weird retard...

P.S. I feel better now that I got that off my chest.

Are you a manager? There is nothing worse in my opinion than an INFP manager in inferior-Te mode. Scary. Scary.

P.S. Cherish the out of the box thinking in your department. It's the only technique you have to make the other SJ managers look stupid and/or unimaginative. They won't respect you as an equal because they see your Te as crude.

 

[SpankyMcFly]

Are you a manager? There is nothing worse in my opinion than an INFP manager in inferior-Te mode. Scary. Scary.

Yes I work in a manager capacity. A time sensitive one that requires a lot of multi tasking. I've been working in operations for many years now. I actually enjoy it and consider myself content in the "career" department.

...They won't respect you as an equal because they see your Te as crude.

My two "supervisors" are INTJ, INTP, my immediate boss is an ISTJ, and our collective boss is ENTJ aka Zee Kaiser. Counting me, thats 4 Te users vs. 1 Ti user. I get along quite well with the TJ's and they appreciate my Te, imo, as we speak the same language. I don't actually talk to the INTP like I wrote in the above post, but I want to sometimes

Remember, this is a N bashing thread. Damn sensortards... they are EVERYWHERE it seems.

 

[Tabula]

Welp, these are annoyances/issues I've experienced in dealings with specific Ns (NFs, to be more precise). I'm not comfortable generalizing.

In texting, I will ask my NF very specific questions, which require very short, simple answers. He routinely ignores my questions, and asks me something else.

Me: "What time would you like me to come over today?"
NF: "Do you want me to pick up some beers for tonight? And how are you today?"
Me: "I'm good. And no, you don't need to; I'll grab some on the way there. Speaking of, when would you like me to be there?"
NF: "Want to listen to this new song I wrote?!"



There are two close NFs in my life who like to tell me how I'm REALLY feeling, or what I REALLY want. All. The. Time.

NF: "Did you like my song?"
Me: "Yes. I especially liked blah blah and blah blah part of it."
NF: "You think it's awful, don't you."
Me:

I'm sorry. These might be specific to those NFs I know. But still. Enough to make me want to gouge out my eyeballs sometimes...

 

[Lexicon]

Welp, these are annoyances/issues I've experienced in dealings with specific Ns (NFs, to be more precise). I'm not comfortable generalizing.

In texting, I will ask my NF very specific questions, which require very short, simple answers. He routinely ignores my questions, and asks me something else.

Me: "What time would you like me to come over today?"
NF: "Do you want me to pick up some beers for tonight? And how are you today?"
Me: "I'm good. And no, you don't need to; I'll grab some on the way there. Speaking of, when would you like me to be there?"
NF: "Want to listen to this new song I wrote?!"



There are two close NFs in my life who like to tell me how I'm REALLY feeling, or what I REALLY want. All. The. Time.

NF: "Did you like my song?"
Me: "Yes. I especially liked blah blah and blah blah part of it."
NF: "You think it's awful, don't you."
Me: wut

I'm sorry. These might be specific to those NFs I know. But still. Enough to make me want to gouge out my eyeballs sometimes...

this is fairly accurate, I'd say.
space cadets about time, and projecting poor self bias. The latter's also applicable to other types, though.

I'm aware how terrible with time I am, so I often try to see in advance what the other party expects of me to reduce potential for conflict.

What's funny to me is that if I ask an ISFJ about what time they're doing something [like I have a reason for it/cuz I'm working around their needs].. they'll describe the time vs actually give me a time. Not sure if all ISFJs do this, but my mother & my ex did it [an ESFJ friend did this too, occasionally].
Simplest example: I was often asked to set the autostart on the coffeemaker for the mornings. 6am on weekdays, but variable on weekends.

So I'd ask: "around what time are you getting up tomorrow? I'm setting the coffee"
ISFJ: Oh. Early.
Me: ok, but what time do you want it to start?
ISFJ: Early is fine.
Me: EARLY is not a time I can program on the coffeemaker.. ffs.
ISFJ: why are you annoyed?



Another point comes to mind when the descriptions of time get skewed.
My ISFJ ex, I'd call in advance while on break at theatre rehearsals to let him know it was running far later than 9pm. He'd say, "that's fine, just show up when you're out.." Then he'd be mad I'd show up after midnight without calling again. I guess his estimate of "far later than 9pm" was like 10:30/11pm. We had frustrating holes in our communication like that, but nothing too terrible.

 

[_eric_]

Welp, these are annoyances/issues I've experienced in dealings with specific Ns (NFs, to be more precise). I'm not comfortable generalizing.

In texting, I will ask my NF very specific questions, which require very short, simple answers. He routinely ignores my questions, and asks me something else.

Me: "What time would you like me to come over today?"
NF: "Do you want me to pick up some beers for tonight? And how are you today?"
Me: "I'm good. And no, you don't need to; I'll grab some on the way there. Speaking of, when would you like me to be there?"
NF: "Want to listen to this new song I wrote?!"



There are two close NFs in my life who like to tell me how I'm REALLY feeling, or what I REALLY want. All. The. Time.

NF: "Did you like my song?"
Me: "Yes. I especially liked blah blah and blah blah part of it."
NF: "You think it's awful, don't you."
Me:

I'm sorry. These might be specific to those NFs I know. But still. Enough to make me want to gouge out my eyeballs sometimes...

It would frustrate me that much too lol. Behavior like that is just very strange to me. Especially the ignoring questions, that's so rude to me. I always make it a point to answer every question asked of me, and I do so as thoroughly as I can, so as long as the other person is willing to take the time to listen to it all.

 

[Tabula]

this is fairly accurate, I'd say.
space cadets about time, and projecting poor self bias. The latter's also applicable to other types, though.

I'm aware how terrible with time I am, so I often try to see in advance what the other party expects of me to reduce potential for conflict.

What's funny to me is that if I ask an ISFJ about what time they're doing something [like I have a reason for it/cuz I'm working around their needs].. they'll describe the time vs actually give me a time. Not sure if all ISFJs do this, but my mother & my ex did it [an ESFJ friend did this too, occasionally].
Simplest example: I was often asked to set the autostart on the coffeemaker for the mornings. 6am on weekdays, but variable on weekends.

So I'd ask: "around what time are you getting up tomorrow? I'm setting the coffee"
ISFJ: Oh. Early.
Me: ok, but what time do you want it to start?
ISFJ: Early is fine.
Me: EARLY is not a time I can program on the coffeemaker.. ffs.
ISFJ: why are you annoyed?

^ That would bother me, too. I think, if I were to say something like that, it might be me trying to be flexy for the other's sake. Like, saying "I want it at 7:30" sounds a little too demanding on my tongue. "What if she doesn't want to get up that early? Am I being a bother? etc. etc." But it ends up being annoying anyways. Hah.

(And, truth be told, I am rather awful with time, too. Shhh, don't tell the other SJs, please. I'd like to keep my membership card. )

Another point comes to mind when the descriptions of time get skewed.
My ISFJ ex, I'd call in advance while on break at theatre rehearsals to let him know it was running far later than 9pm. He'd say, "that's fine, just show up when you're out.." Then he'd be mad I'd show up after midnight without calling again. I guess his estimate of "far later than 9pm" was like 10:30/11pm. We had frustrating holes in our communication like that, but nothing too terrible.

I recognize this a lot in my ISTJ. He is fine with whatever it is ON THE PHONE, but as soon as he's faced with the reality of something, staring at him in the face, happening right now, it's a different story. I'm not sure why that is. Si relative future-blindness? Inability to know how he/we/me are going to feel in a hypothetical future situation? Hmm. I think I could see myself doing this, too.


ETA: One more thing about my poor NF. I'm picking on him, I know. But only 'cause I love him.

It is sort of related to the telling-me-how-I-feel thing. Kinda. He always assumes there is more going on with me, emotionally, than there actually is. When I tell you how I am feeling, that is really it. He feels like I'm withholding, but that is not the case. I suspect this might be Fi-projection, a little bit? (He's an xNFP [I lean toward eNFP]). He thinks that because he experiences things on such a deep emotional level, that I must as well? And that by my not sharing this with him (there is nothing to share), he takes it to mean I do not want to share, which, to his mind = rejecting closeness? Or something like that. It's been a bit of an issue with us.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

So my boss is an ENFP, and we had an ESFP sales woman working there for awhile.... One day the ESFP expressed frustration with my boss' idea exploring before making a decision.... The ESFP said something like, "She (the ENFP) hasn't made a decision yet cuz she keeps thinking of something new. You know, I don't care how many ideas you want to have. Go ahead and have a million ideas if you want to, but just freakin' DO SOMETHING!!!!". I think that sums up an SP irritation with Ns, although SJs actually seem more patient about the idea exploring (cuz they tend to be "planners").

Yes.

I actually have a new appreciation for S types, and I think the description of intuitiveness as somehow intellectually deficient is false. What Se or Si means is simply that they will use their intelligence in different ways that we are less likely to appreciate it. I've known intelligent ESFPs, which some people would have you believe doesn't exist. It's simply that the intelligent ESFP's tend not to care about stuff that isn't practical and useful in the here and now. And believe it or not, there's a certain advantage to focusing on your immediate environment in some situations.

Unfortunately, there are some people who think that being an NT makes them a genius, and don't seem to care about whether their ideas actually reflect reality. NT's are capable of believing idiotic shit just like SJ's, NF's, and SP's. It's just that NT's construct a well-ordered system of idiotic shit, like conspiracy theories, or alpha vs. beta vs. omega males.

 

[Cellmold]

It's just that NT's construct a well-ordered system of idiotic shit, like conspiracy theories, or alpha vs. beta vs. omega males.

Oh dear, the nightmares are coming back...NOT THE ALPHA VS BETA VS OMEGA SYSTEM!

 

[Nicki]

Their bad interior decorating skills

 

[skylights]

this is fairly accurate, I'd say.
space cadets about time, and projecting poor self bias. The latter's also applicable to other types, though.

I'm aware how terrible with time I am, so I often try to see in advance what the other party expects of me to reduce potential for conflict.

What's funny to me is that if I ask an ISFJ about what time they're doing something [like I have a reason for it/cuz I'm working around their needs].. they'll describe the time vs actually give me a time. Not sure if all ISFJs do this, but my mother & my ex did it [an ESFJ friend did this too, occasionally].
Simplest example: I was often asked to set the autostart on the coffeemaker for the mornings. 6am on weekdays, but variable on weekends.

So I'd ask: "around what time are you getting up tomorrow? I'm setting the coffee"
ISFJ: Oh. Early.
Me: ok, but what time do you want it to start?
ISFJ: Early is fine.
Me: EARLY is not a time I can program on the coffeemaker.. ffs.
ISFJ: why are you annoyed?



Another point comes to mind when the descriptions of time get skewed.
My ISFJ ex, I'd call in advance while on break at theatre rehearsals to let him know it was running far later than 9pm. He'd say, "that's fine, just show up when you're out.." Then he'd be mad I'd show up after midnight without calling again. I guess his estimate of "far later than 9pm" was like 10:30/11pm. We had frustrating holes in our communication like that, but nothing too terrible.

!!!!!!

Oh my gosh, I did NOT know this was a thing, but I totally experience it with my ISFJ too!!!

Me - "When should we meet up?"
ISFJ - "Later is good."
Me - "Okay, what time are you thinking?"
ISFJ - "After work."
Me - "What time will you be done, do you think?"
ISFJ - "I'm not sure, we have a meeting..."



I, too, am terrible with time, so I try to get a hold of exacts.

It is sort of related to the telling-me-how-I-feel thing. Kinda. He always assumes there is more going on with me, emotionally, than there actually is. When I tell you how I am feeling, that is really it. He feels like I'm withholding, but that is not the case. I suspect this might be Fi-projection, a little bit? (He's an xNFP [I lean toward eNFP]). He thinks that because he experiences things on such a deep emotional level, that I must as well? And that by my not sharing this with him (there is nothing to share), he takes it to mean I do not want to share, which, to his mind = rejecting closeness? Or something like that. It's been a bit of an issue with us.

Oh, yeah... it is really weird to learn that others don't have all that same crazy emotional depth that we do. Or that they're not always delved like 225% into some theoretical idea. It's hard to understand what goes on in your heads when it's not the same thing that goes on in ours.

 

[Coriolis]

Unfortunately, there are some people who think that being an NT makes them a genius, and don't seem to care about whether their ideas actually reflect reality. NT's are capable of believing idiotic shit just like SJ's, NF's, and SP's. It's just that NT's construct a well-ordered system of idiotic shit, like conspiracy theories, or alpha vs. beta vs. omega males.

And you think it is an improvement to keep your idiotic shit in complete disarray? How do you ever expect to find things when you need them???

Oh my gosh, I did NOT know this was a thing, but I totally experience it with my ISFJ too!!!

"When should we meet up?"
- "Later is good."
"Okay, what time are you thinking?"
- "After work."
"What time will you be done, do you think?"
- "I'm not sure, we have a meeting..."

You don't have to be SFJ to hate this. It drives me round the bend, too, and I am dominant N.

 

[skylights]

You don't have to be SFJ to hate this. It drives me round the bend, too, and I am dominant N.

Lol, sorry, I was unclear. I'm the one asking the times and my ISFJ is the one giving approximations!

 

[Galena]

Fun thread. I read the whole thing.

The issue of S impatience with N "weirdness" has a flipside: when you over-interpret somebody's behavior, even the slightest odd move can look calculated and sinister. Anyone can be a psychopath if you're looking at them right! I'm not saying to close your eyes to ulterior motives, just not to forget that sometimes things are as they appear.