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  1. #71
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabula View Post
    Welp, these are annoyances/issues I've experienced in dealings with specific Ns (NFs, to be more precise). I'm not comfortable generalizing.

    In texting, I will ask my NF very specific questions, which require very short, simple answers. He routinely ignores my questions, and asks me something else.

    Me: "What time would you like me to come over today?"
    NF: "Do you want me to pick up some beers for tonight? And how are you today?"
    Me: "I'm good. And no, you don't need to; I'll grab some on the way there. Speaking of, when would you like me to be there?"
    NF: "Want to listen to this new song I wrote?!"



    There are two close NFs in my life who like to tell me how I'm REALLY feeling, or what I REALLY want. All. The. Time.

    NF: "Did you like my song?"
    Me: "Yes. I especially liked blah blah and blah blah part of it."
    NF: "You think it's awful, don't you."
    Me: wut

    I'm sorry. These might be specific to those NFs I know. But still. Enough to make me want to gouge out my eyeballs sometimes...
    this is fairly accurate, I'd say.
    space cadets about time, and projecting poor self bias. The latter's also applicable to other types, though.

    I'm aware how terrible with time I am, so I often try to see in advance what the other party expects of me to reduce potential for conflict.

    What's funny to me is that if I ask an ISFJ about what time they're doing something [like I have a reason for it/cuz I'm working around their needs].. they'll describe the time vs actually give me a time. Not sure if all ISFJs do this, but my mother & my ex did it [an ESFJ friend did this too, occasionally].
    Simplest example: I was often asked to set the autostart on the coffeemaker for the mornings. 6am on weekdays, but variable on weekends.

    So I'd ask: "around what time are you getting up tomorrow? I'm setting the coffee"
    ISFJ: Oh. Early.
    Me: ok, but what time do you want it to start?
    ISFJ: Early is fine.
    Me: EARLY is not a time I can program on the coffeemaker.. ffs.
    ISFJ: why are you annoyed?



    Another point comes to mind when the descriptions of time get skewed.
    My ISFJ ex, I'd call in advance while on break at theatre rehearsals to let him know it was running far later than 9pm. He'd say, "that's fine, just show up when you're out.." Then he'd be mad I'd show up after midnight without calling again. I guess his estimate of "far later than 9pm" was like 10:30/11pm. We had frustrating holes in our communication like that, but nothing too terrible.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  2. #72
    Senior Member _eric_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabula View Post
    Welp, these are annoyances/issues I've experienced in dealings with specific Ns (NFs, to be more precise). I'm not comfortable generalizing.

    In texting, I will ask my NF very specific questions, which require very short, simple answers. He routinely ignores my questions, and asks me something else.

    Me: "What time would you like me to come over today?"
    NF: "Do you want me to pick up some beers for tonight? And how are you today?"
    Me: "I'm good. And no, you don't need to; I'll grab some on the way there. Speaking of, when would you like me to be there?"
    NF: "Want to listen to this new song I wrote?!"



    There are two close NFs in my life who like to tell me how I'm REALLY feeling, or what I REALLY want. All. The. Time.

    NF: "Did you like my song?"
    Me: "Yes. I especially liked blah blah and blah blah part of it."
    NF: "You think it's awful, don't you."
    Me:

    I'm sorry. These might be specific to those NFs I know. But still. Enough to make me want to gouge out my eyeballs sometimes...
    It would frustrate me that much too lol. Behavior like that is just very strange to me. Especially the ignoring questions, that's so rude to me. I always make it a point to answer every question asked of me, and I do so as thoroughly as I can, so as long as the other person is willing to take the time to listen to it all.

  3. #73
    Senior Member Tabula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    this is fairly accurate, I'd say.
    space cadets about time, and projecting poor self bias. The latter's also applicable to other types, though.

    I'm aware how terrible with time I am, so I often try to see in advance what the other party expects of me to reduce potential for conflict.

    What's funny to me is that if I ask an ISFJ about what time they're doing something [like I have a reason for it/cuz I'm working around their needs].. they'll describe the time vs actually give me a time. Not sure if all ISFJs do this, but my mother & my ex did it [an ESFJ friend did this too, occasionally].
    Simplest example: I was often asked to set the autostart on the coffeemaker for the mornings. 6am on weekdays, but variable on weekends.

    So I'd ask: "around what time are you getting up tomorrow? I'm setting the coffee"
    ISFJ: Oh. Early.
    Me: ok, but what time do you want it to start?
    ISFJ: Early is fine.
    Me: EARLY is not a time I can program on the coffeemaker.. ffs.
    ISFJ: why are you annoyed?

    ^ That would bother me, too. I think, if I were to say something like that, it might be me trying to be flexy for the other's sake. Like, saying "I want it at 7:30" sounds a little too demanding on my tongue. "What if she doesn't want to get up that early? Am I being a bother? etc. etc." But it ends up being annoying anyways. Hah.

    (And, truth be told, I am rather awful with time, too. Shhh, don't tell the other SJs, please. I'd like to keep my membership card. )

    Another point comes to mind when the descriptions of time get skewed.
    My ISFJ ex, I'd call in advance while on break at theatre rehearsals to let him know it was running far later than 9pm. He'd say, "that's fine, just show up when you're out.." Then he'd be mad I'd show up after midnight without calling again. I guess his estimate of "far later than 9pm" was like 10:30/11pm. We had frustrating holes in our communication like that, but nothing too terrible.
    I recognize this a lot in my ISTJ. He is fine with whatever it is ON THE PHONE, but as soon as he's faced with the reality of something, staring at him in the face, happening right now, it's a different story. I'm not sure why that is. Si relative future-blindness? Inability to know how he/we/me are going to feel in a hypothetical future situation? Hmm. I think I could see myself doing this, too.


    ETA: One more thing about my poor NF. I'm picking on him, I know. But only 'cause I love him.

    It is sort of related to the telling-me-how-I-feel thing. Kinda. He always assumes there is more going on with me, emotionally, than there actually is. When I tell you how I am feeling, that is really it. He feels like I'm withholding, but that is not the case. I suspect this might be Fi-projection, a little bit? (He's an xNFP [I lean toward eNFP]). He thinks that because he experiences things on such a deep emotional level, that I must as well? And that by my not sharing this with him (there is nothing to share), he takes it to mean I do not want to share, which, to his mind = rejecting closeness? Or something like that. It's been a bit of an issue with us.

  4. #74
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    So my boss is an ENFP, and we had an ESFP sales woman working there for awhile.... One day the ESFP expressed frustration with my boss' idea exploring before making a decision.... The ESFP said something like, "She (the ENFP) hasn't made a decision yet cuz she keeps thinking of something new. You know, I don't care how many ideas you want to have. Go ahead and have a million ideas if you want to, but just freakin' DO SOMETHING!!!!". I think that sums up an SP irritation with Ns, although SJs actually seem more patient about the idea exploring (cuz they tend to be "planners").
    Yes.

    I actually have a new appreciation for S types, and I think the description of intuitiveness as somehow intellectually deficient is false. What Se or Si means is simply that they will use their intelligence in different ways that we are less likely to appreciate it. I've known intelligent ESFPs, which some people would have you believe doesn't exist. It's simply that the intelligent ESFP's tend not to care about stuff that isn't practical and useful in the here and now. And believe it or not, there's a certain advantage to focusing on your immediate environment in some situations.

    Unfortunately, there are some people who think that being an NT makes them a genius, and don't seem to care about whether their ideas actually reflect reality. NT's are capable of believing idiotic shit just like SJ's, NF's, and SP's. It's just that NT's construct a well-ordered system of idiotic shit, like conspiracy theories, or alpha vs. beta vs. omega males.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  5. #75
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    It's just that NT's construct a well-ordered system of idiotic shit, like conspiracy theories, or alpha vs. beta vs. omega males.
    Oh dear, the nightmares are coming back...NOT THE ALPHA VS BETA VS OMEGA SYSTEM!
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  6. #76
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    Their bad interior decorating skills
    I really like cats and food.

  7. #77
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    this is fairly accurate, I'd say.
    space cadets about time, and projecting poor self bias. The latter's also applicable to other types, though.

    I'm aware how terrible with time I am, so I often try to see in advance what the other party expects of me to reduce potential for conflict.

    What's funny to me is that if I ask an ISFJ about what time they're doing something [like I have a reason for it/cuz I'm working around their needs].. they'll describe the time vs actually give me a time. Not sure if all ISFJs do this, but my mother & my ex did it [an ESFJ friend did this too, occasionally].
    Simplest example: I was often asked to set the autostart on the coffeemaker for the mornings. 6am on weekdays, but variable on weekends.

    So I'd ask: "around what time are you getting up tomorrow? I'm setting the coffee"
    ISFJ: Oh. Early.
    Me: ok, but what time do you want it to start?
    ISFJ: Early is fine.
    Me: EARLY is not a time I can program on the coffeemaker.. ffs.
    ISFJ: why are you annoyed?



    Another point comes to mind when the descriptions of time get skewed.
    My ISFJ ex, I'd call in advance while on break at theatre rehearsals to let him know it was running far later than 9pm. He'd say, "that's fine, just show up when you're out.." Then he'd be mad I'd show up after midnight without calling again. I guess his estimate of "far later than 9pm" was like 10:30/11pm. We had frustrating holes in our communication like that, but nothing too terrible.
    !!!!!!

    Oh my gosh, I did NOT know this was a thing, but I totally experience it with my ISFJ too!!!

    Me - "When should we meet up?"
    ISFJ - "Later is good."
    Me - "Okay, what time are you thinking?"
    ISFJ - "After work."
    Me - "What time will you be done, do you think?"
    ISFJ - "I'm not sure, we have a meeting..."



    I, too, am terrible with time, so I try to get a hold of exacts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabula View Post
    It is sort of related to the telling-me-how-I-feel thing. Kinda. He always assumes there is more going on with me, emotionally, than there actually is. When I tell you how I am feeling, that is really it. He feels like I'm withholding, but that is not the case. I suspect this might be Fi-projection, a little bit? (He's an xNFP [I lean toward eNFP]). He thinks that because he experiences things on such a deep emotional level, that I must as well? And that by my not sharing this with him (there is nothing to share), he takes it to mean I do not want to share, which, to his mind = rejecting closeness? Or something like that. It's been a bit of an issue with us.
    Oh, yeah... it is really weird to learn that others don't have all that same crazy emotional depth that we do. Or that they're not always delved like 225% into some theoretical idea. It's hard to understand what goes on in your heads when it's not the same thing that goes on in ours.

  8. #78
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Unfortunately, there are some people who think that being an NT makes them a genius, and don't seem to care about whether their ideas actually reflect reality. NT's are capable of believing idiotic shit just like SJ's, NF's, and SP's. It's just that NT's construct a well-ordered system of idiotic shit, like conspiracy theories, or alpha vs. beta vs. omega males.
    And you think it is an improvement to keep your idiotic shit in complete disarray? How do you ever expect to find things when you need them???



    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Oh my gosh, I did NOT know this was a thing, but I totally experience it with my ISFJ too!!!

    "When should we meet up?"
    - "Later is good."
    "Okay, what time are you thinking?"
    - "After work."
    "What time will you be done, do you think?"
    - "I'm not sure, we have a meeting..."
    You don't have to be SFJ to hate this. It drives me round the bend, too, and I am dominant N.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #79
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    You don't have to be SFJ to hate this. It drives me round the bend, too, and I am dominant N.
    Lol, sorry, I was unclear. I'm the one asking the times and my ISFJ is the one giving approximations!

  10. #80
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Fun thread. I read the whole thing.

    The issue of S impatience with N "weirdness" has a flipside: when you over-interpret somebody's behavior, even the slightest odd move can look calculated and sinister. Anyone can be a psychopath if you're looking at them right! I'm not saying to close your eyes to ulterior motives, just not to forget that sometimes things are as they appear.

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