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[SJ] How to be a better SJ?

dnivera

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How do you become a healthier SJ? Just by reading these posts recently I've discovered those nitpicky stereotypical things that other types don't like about SJs...too task-oriented, tend to micromanage, too focused, etc, and I've tried to be more laid-back and less controlling. But I don't really feel like "myself" when I do that!
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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How do you become a healthier SJ? Just by reading these posts recently I've discovered those nitpicky stereotypical things that other types don't like about SJs...too task-oriented, tend to micromanage, too focused, etc, and I've tried to be more laid-back and less controlling. But I don't really feel like "myself" when I do that!

Hang out with a hardcore NTP.

Interesting that you don't feel like yourself. Maybe it's because you've come to identify with your type too much. In my book, type is impermanent and fluctuates according to one's environment and inner composition. On the other hand, maybe controlling is the way you minimize anxiety, and surrendering control provokes that anxiety that something will go wrong. If that's the case, then just practice letting go. If your mind starts to freak out and turn on itself, just be cool with that and know that it's expected and part of the process and that the anxiety or discomfort will pass. That'd by my advice.
 

Totenkindly

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How do you become a healthier SJ? Just by reading these posts recently I've discovered those nitpicky stereotypical things that other types don't like about SJs...too task-oriented, tend to micromanage, too focused, etc, and I've tried to be more laid-back and less controlling. But I don't really feel like "myself" when I do that!

You won't feel like "yourself." No one does, when they change.

So my first advice is be patient. If you change too quick, you won't 'know' yourself and will feel weird like you do now.

ESJs have a Ti/Fi inferior. They need to learn to back off and learn to make decisions either by determining and applying what something is (ESFJ, using Ti) or what it personally means to them (ESTJ, using Fi).

ISJs have an Ne inferior. Their problems usually revolve around becoming paranoid of what could happen if they don't plan well; they see lots of threat in the environment.

One thing that helps is having friends who are GOOD at those functions and getting their advice so you can recalibrate. For ISFJs and ISTJs developing Ne, trying to brainstorm and/or try new things in a "safe" environment will give them confidence when there is more risk involved.

Don't feel ashamed of your strengths. You ARE task-oriented, can manage and organize well, are focused. Some people can't do that. You are just looking for ways to ease up and enjoy yourself more.

Schedule time to "play" where you can... where there is no task to do. Take an art class or teach yourself to paint. Go for long walks and just observe nature. Try to play a song "by ear" if you are musical. Set aside $5 (or a specific amount) and go play video games at an arcade. Use your organization abilities to "plan" fun time for yourself, and when you are there, do not work; force yourself to play and not think about the clock. Go lay out in the sun with your shades and read a book.

Watch silly movies/shows and don't make fun of them or worry about the appropriateness, just let yourself laugh. Let yourself be surprised. (Part of humor is being surprised.)

Think about something a friend said and try to imagine why they might have said it, beyond the obvious. You don't need proof, just imagine every possibility you can and list them. Do this with various things, you are trying to stretch the imagination, not have the "right answer" per se. Then check with them to see how close you were.

Is this helping?
 

Athenian200

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How do you become a healthier SJ? Just by reading these posts recently I've discovered those nitpicky stereotypical things that other types don't like about SJs...too task-oriented, tend to micromanage, too focused, etc, and I've tried to be more laid-back and less controlling. But I don't really feel like "myself" when I do that!

You really should ignore them... they're hypocrites. Just focus on being yourself.

They demand that SJ's stop telling them what to do, and then complain that they want SJ's to do things their way because they think it's better.

Don't listen to them, you'd be nothing but a slave if most of these people who continually find fault with SJ's had their way.

I suppose what I'd advise is to try not to be too controlling of others if you can avoid it (that's what actually provokes most people who are bothered by them), but conduct yourself, your work, etc. how you personally feel comfortable, even if it's somewhat focused/micromanaging. Don't try to force change where it's not needed, only consider it where you actually feel that it is needed.
 

MacGuffin

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How do you become a healthier SJ? Just by reading these posts recently I've discovered those nitpicky stereotypical things that other types don't like about SJs...too task-oriented, tend to micromanage, too focused, etc, and I've tried to be more laid-back and less controlling. But I don't really feel like "myself" when I do that!

You can't be what you aren't, but if you lighten up a bit and have a sense of humor about things that will help.

Hang out with a hardcore NTP.

Yeah I broke mine. She's messier than me sometimes!
 

proteanmix

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How do you become a healthier SJ? Just by reading these posts recently I've discovered those nitpicky stereotypical things that other types don't like about SJs...too task-oriented, tend to micromanage, too focused, etc, and I've tried to be more laid-back and less controlling. But I don't really feel like "myself" when I do that!

Honestly, I wouldn't use this forum as an accurate reflection of what most SJs are like. If SJs are the majority of the population then I don't have problems with the majority of the population. If I ever find myself having problems with most people then I'd think there's something about myself that needs to change. I'm not saying that I don't have problems with some SJs but usually it's some other issue at work, not their inherent SJness.

SJs who are strongly Si tend to have problems due to a predominance of one function over another, just as any other type that is strongly reliant upon one or two functions tends to have problems with others. I don't automatically assume you fit the stereotypical SJ mold. You may in fact be a very easygoing person. Just because you're an SJ does not automatically make you anal and SJ strengths are basically what keeps society from falling into a tangled morass. I respect and am extremely grateful to the SJ temperament for at least that and many others things that are probably overlooked and undervalued.

If you know you have personal faults that need to be worked on and you want to use MBTI as a starting point then I'd echo what others have already stated.

I think this topic should be started throughout all the type communes. *nudge, nudge*
 

Totenkindly

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...I think this topic should be started throughout all the type communes. *nudge, nudge*

Okay... but why should all the NTs learn how to not be SJs? :(
 

MacGuffin

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I think this topic should be started throughout all the type communes. *nudge, nudge*

The NTs have already evolved into higher lifeforms.

It's the other three groups that hold humanity down.
 

Athenian200

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The NTs have already evolved into higher lifeforms.

It's the other three groups that hold humanity down.

Much as I'd hesitate to say it, NT's really don't seem that much more intelligent than anyone else, except with strategy, mathematics and physics.

Also, wouldn't natural selection have increased the number of NT's by now if they were "higher lifeforms"?

NT's are skilled, no doubt, but are those skills really the ones best adapted for survival?

Okay... but why should all the NTs learn how to not be SJs? :(

Actually, she meant they should learn to overcome their respective weaknesses, which would be different from those of an SJ.

SJ's would be taught to develop NP qualities.
SP's would be taught to develop NJ qualities.
NF's would be taught to develop ST qualities.
NT's would be taught to develop SF qualities.

In moderation, of course... they shouldn't try to change into the other type, or not be willing to acknowledge their limitations, weaknesses, and different flow of energy.
 

Totenkindly

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Okay, interesting discussion, but can we take this back to the OP, please? Thanks.
 

Athenian200

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dnivera, your type is ISTJ, and you are concerned with finding ways in which you can pursue personal growth. Presuming you are an ISTJ, the following would work well:

* Getting in touch with your personal values.

* Spending time contemplating what motivates you.

* Brainstorming and testing new ideas.

* Playing with random interconnections.

You may also benefit from reading about your opposite type, ENFP, trying to see the positive traits in this type, and considering whether you feel that you should integrate any of these qualities into yourself.

Note that you should not attempt to abandon your normal personality in the process of pursuing personal growth, as this may cause needless stress and result in suffering/harm and little if any benefit to yourself. Instead, you should simply try integrate these qualities into areas of your life that currently seem empty and in need of these traits.

Okay, interesting discussion, but can we take this back to the OP, please? Thanks.

I appreciate your attempt to get us back on topic, but please don't say "thanks" without waiting for a response? I personally consider that quite rude to everyone involved in the thread.
 

Jae Rae

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Nov 19, 2007
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How do you become a healthier SJ? Just by reading these posts recently I've discovered those nitpicky stereotypical things that other types don't like about SJs...too task-oriented, tend to micromanage, too focused, etc, and I've tried to be more laid-back and less controlling. But I don't really feel like "myself" when I do that!

You've gotten some very good advice.

Perseveration is another characteristic of some SJs that drives people nutty. Learn to drop things if someone doesn't get your point, agree with you, etc. Repeating the same argument or advice over and over annoys people and usually doesn't result in the agreement or change you want anyway. BTW, this advice works for all types. :devil:

Hanging out on this forum is a great idea. ;)

Jae Rae
 

Nadir

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dnivera, I wouldn't take the posts written on this forum as a baseline for self-judgment. To that end, I agree with athenian's first post. There are some dark undercurrents flowing beneath the happy-go-lucky exterior of this forum that sort of tip the scales where the equality of types are concerned.

Secondly, "ISTJ" by itself does not mean much. Instead of asking to be a better SJ and therefore a subscriber to stereotype, you might consider thinking outside the MBTI and consider your qualities, strengths and weaknesses regardless of how they (and by extension you) fit into the ISTJ mold. Do not rely on external opinion overmuch for personal, internal growth -- instead self-examine yourself and reach your own conclusions about what you should improve about yourself.
 

Totenkindly

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I appreciate your attempt to get us back on topic, but please don't say "thanks" without waiting for a response? I personally consider that quite rude to everyone involved in the thread.

Sorry, hon -- consider it to have been said in a "very kind" voice... NOT a condescending one, as how you unexpectedly took it. Take it as a compliment, I trusted you guys to be courteous enough to comply w/o my having to see the evidence... and you proved me right. ;)

nice assess btw. Not just you... lots of good advice here.
 

MacGuffin

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Okay, interesting discussion, but can we take this back to the OP, please? Thanks.

I appreciate your attempt to get us back on topic, but please don't say "thanks" without waiting for a response? I personally consider that quite rude to everyone involved in the thread.

Sorry, hon -- consider it to have been said in a "very kind" voice... NOT a condescending one, as how you unexpectedly took it. Take it as a compliment, I trusted you guys to be courteous enough to comply w/o my having to see the evidence... and you proved me right. ;)

*stifles laughter*

BACK ON TOPIC, MOFOs!!!


That's what I was trying to say. Frankie say.
 

Jeffster

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The NTs have already evolved into higher lifeforms.

It's the other three groups that hold humanity down.

She told me she liked to be held down. :blush:
 
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