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  1. #21
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Yes, you probably have no psychological knowledge to begin with.
    What do you mean by psychological knowledge? Research of it? An education of it?

    A lot of what I learnt from psychology classes in college, (which I hated by the way), was stuff I could work out from observation of people. It's not hard to pick up little tells and ticks of people you are around for a prolonged period. And even new people you meet I often find you are catagorising minute details about their behaviour and idiosyncrasies and it isnt hard to discern a level of understanding of that person on a superficial level, as in drives, motives. The longer you spend with them the deeper you can delve.

    My problem is I know things but I do not possess a language capable of putting it into any coherent verbalisation, thus I can act on it, but to explain how I came to that reasoning, which is often a correct speculation, is almost impossible.

    I suppose the best summing up I can give of this is in real life, ive walked into a room and I can usually tell quite quickly where the tensions lie and where the groups are and how they fit together. The deeper psychologies of the mind are often less complex than people think, I tend to believe it all stems from the basic things; Needs and wants, likes and dislikes. Some of the most damaged people I met only needed something simple to be brought to the surface.

    I even find the term superficiality to be inadequate because in my experiences a lot of problems actually start out superficial and are then tied back to deeper implications...just as much as the superficial problems can stem from the deeper implications.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #22
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    The light side of the Force is weaker because they cannot use lightning with it.
    You're forgetting the Vorlon.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    What do you mean by psychological knowledge? Research of it? An education of it?

    A lot of what I learnt from psychology classes in college, (which I hated by the way), was stuff I could work out from observation of people. It's not hard to pick up little tells and ticks of people you are around for a prolonged period. And even new people you meet I often find you are catagorising minute details about their behaviour and idiosyncrasies and it isnt hard to discern a level of understanding of that person on a superficial level, as in drives, motives. The longer you spend with them the deeper you can delve.

    My problem is I know things but I do not possess a language capable of putting it into any coherent verbalisation, thus I can act on it, but to explain how I came to that reasoning, which is often a correct speculation, is almost impossible.

    I suppose the best summing up I can give of this is in real life, ive walked into a room and I can usually tell quite quickly where the tensions lie and where the groups are and how they fit together. The deeper psychologies of the mind are often less complex than people think, I tend to believe it all stems from the basic things; Needs and wants, likes and dislikes. Some of the most damaged people I met only needed something simple to be brought to the surface.

    I even find the term superficiality to be inadequate because in my experiences a lot of problems actually start out superficial and are then tied back to deeper implications...just as much as the superficial problems can stem from the deeper implications.
    I see that when you're not directly thinking about your personality, as when you take a test, you are actually more capable of verbalising your personality traits. Do you have test anxiety? Anyway, it looks like your 6w7 call was accurate. But it apparently isn't important to you, probably because you don't have the same problems with identity that I had before finding the enneagram, or before the enneagram found me.

    It sounds like you have mild mood swings throughout the day, but "mild" depends on what "glum" means. I agree that most needs are simple, and it sounds like for you interpersonal contact is of utmost importance. And it sounds like your moods are dependent upon this one issue. But it could be more. I don't know if that's the tip of the iceberg or not, but digging deeper probably doesn't matter. It's normal that moods are dependent on outside circumstances, because at least that means they aren't swinging on their own. That's a problem which requires medicating. The best thing is to self-regulate your moods, which I call "changing the channel" or "switching the station." The problem with me is that I'm quick with theory but slow to show results. Type 6s will probably be the opposite of that. But I'm getting to the point where I can have a reaction and yet I know that I could have reacted differently if I chose to.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #24
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    damn, I thought I was gonna see a bunch of kick ass ESFJ quotes here. Nope
    {The Diplomat}
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  5. #25
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I see that when you're not directly thinking about your personality, as when you take a test, you are actually more capable of verbalising your personality traits. Do you have test anxiety? Anyway, it looks like your 6w7 call was accurate. But it apparently isn't important to you, probably because you don't have the same problems with identity that I had before finding the enneagram, or before the enneagram found me.
    I dont know what it is about tests...and I dont mean to write them off completely, nor descriptions despite my previous vitriolic attitude towards them, but often I find myself looking at a test question which gives two options of preference and going....wait a minute I do both!

    I mean here is a random example off one of many of the tests ive taken:
    8) There is nothing more important than fully living in the moment.
    I mean on the surface that seems so straightforward.

    But the thing is I do believe it is important to enjoy the moment and live in it, I think the people who are happiest enjoy their lives because of this, but I dont literally commit to that ideal either. I find myself held back by caution and worries which go beyond mere conscious awareness. How do I answer something like that when I hold a complete duality of it in my mind? I mean I think it's important, but I cannot force myself to adhere to it because it is not a natural inclination of mine. Not to mention I know from a brief knowledge of functions that they are probably deliberately looking for Se with that answer, so that ruins the question further.

    Or how about this one:
    14) I take existing ideas and link them together in new and interesting ways.
    . I mean how is a person supposed to take that question? Who DOESNT do that? Regardless of their type who is this person who walks around never considering anything else or getting ideas about ANYTHING. Who defines 'new and interesting'? Not to mention I can tell they were looking for a certain function once again there....most likely an intuitive one, if I had to guess id say Ni.

    Now im more than willing to accept that the problem here is im applying a fluidity to my intepretation of these answers that may not be intended, but since that comes naturally, as in I want to apply them to a ton of different contexts, how do I stop myself doing this? Or is it that all the tests ive taken have been poor ones and ive merely been missing the good ones? Or how about this one:
    18) I review a lot of information over time to confirm what is customary or standard.
    but everyone does that, what the question should mention is: Do you adhere to these standards?

    Obviously this is not that much proof, but im just trying to give a little insight into my mindset and approach to tests on this subject.

    I understand the idea with these questions is to induce a sense of preference, not a right or wrong answer and that is fine, but I wish they were a bit more insightful and clever in their construction.
    In the end im quite happy to admit the fault is probably at my end, but if so; how do I identify it?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I dont know what it is about tests...and I dont mean to write them off completely, nor descriptions despite my previous vitriolic attitude towards them, but often I find myself looking at a test question which gives two options of preference and going....wait a minute I do both!

    I mean here is a random example off one of many of the tests ive taken: I mean on the surface that seems so straightforward.

    But the thing is I do believe it is important to enjoy the moment and live in it, I think the people who are happiest enjoy their lives because of this, but I dont literally commit to that ideal either. I find myself held back by caution and worries which go beyond mere conscious awareness. How do I answer something like that when I hold a complete duality of it in my mind? I mean I think it's important, but I cannot force myself to adhere to it because it is not a natural inclination of mine. Not to mention I know from a brief knowledge of functions that they are probably deliberately looking for Se with that answer, so that ruins the question further.

    Or how about this one: . I mean how is a person supposed to take that question? Who DOESNT do that? Regardless of their type who is this person who walks around never considering anything else or getting ideas about ANYTHING. Who defines 'new and interesting'? Not to mention I can tell they were looking for a certain function once again there....most likely an intuitive one, if I had to guess id say Ni.

    Now im more than willing to accept that the problem here is im applying a fluidity to my intepretation of these answers that may not be intended, but since that comes naturally, as in I want to apply them to a ton of different contexts, how do I stop myself doing this? Or is it that all the tests ive taken have been poor ones and ive merely been missing the good ones? Or how about this one: but everyone does that, what the question should mention is: Do you adhere to these standards?

    Obviously this is not that much proof, but im just trying to give a little insight into my mindset and approach to tests on this subject.

    I understand the idea with these questions is to induce a sense of preference, not a right or wrong answer and that is fine, but I wish they were a bit more insightful and clever in their construction.
    In the end im quite happy to admit the fault is probably at my end, but if so; how do I identify it?
    If you have to think about it that much, then the answer is "no," or whatever the lower level score is such as "1" or "2."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #27
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    If you have to think about it that much, then the answer is "no," or whatever the lower level score is such as "1" or "2."
    Ill try that!
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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