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Thread: Ask me about introverted sensation (Si).

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by EntangledLight View Post
    yes it does.

    i think when it comes down to it, there will be a large similarity between the Pi functions because they're both Pi. but that sort of lets me know that my form of S is extroverted.

    first, Ni is still building from past experience just as Si is, it's just not done through the medium of internalized sensual experience--instead, i think it's done through internalized molds that certain situations fit which is why some Ni-doms can seem to be overly "mystical", or just plain and simple b.s.'ers, because the focus is taken off of the object or physical details that occurred that led to their own form of "internalized impressions", and instead is placed, again, upon the mold/construct that it can fit into... almost as if one were to look at an object and then immediately look right outside of its borders in order to see the shape that it creates as it fits into reality and through this it allows one to know gain insight into the object itself (ideally)... and how Ni-types can rely too heavily on "metaphysical" analogies to make their point, lol.
    Firstly, while I would agree that Ni and Si both fulfill the same functions as information gatherers, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that they work in the same way. I can only speak as a Si when I talk about Ni, as it is an entirely alien way of living to me. I live my life by the sensory experience I archive and memorize, I draw from my sensory banks when I want direction, information and solutions. My Si process is neatly filed and organized, everything has a place, a connection. If I want to get to letter G I know it is in between F and H, and it is the 6th letter of the alphabet. From what I've read Ni doesn't rely on sensory logic or systems to find what it wants- if it wants to get to letter G it takes a 3 men group, minus a bee to get a Gee. That kind of thinking process is horrifying to a Si who doesn't even know where to begin, that is why when you talk of Si and Ni like they're interchangeable- it bewilders me honestly.

    Quote Originally Posted by EntangledLight View Post
    i said the above because to me it outlines the similarities in the beginnings or origins of what Pi is--taking something that doesn't exist from reality and hoping that it allows one to understand that reality--but from there how it diverges from the same path or beam. now, i'm a little more certain that i'm more on the Ni/Se (possibly Se/Ni) scale than that of the opposite attitudes because i don't understand the nostalgia effect, if anything that sort of thinking creates an almost empty, sinking feeling within me that is almost detrimental i would say, and it causes me in a way to, when asked questions by other types that i believe to have Si that pertain to or would lead to an Si answer, my response is almost frustration, i'm like "what do you mean? it's a sofa?... it's wooden frame covered in cushion and fabric... what the hell do i care which couch i have as long as i have something that would function as a couch would?"... (a completely uncalled for response--i know)
    Secondly, why are you attaching so much weight to the nostalgia effect? If I had an emotional moment for every sensory memory I dredged up, I would never get anything done. Plus not all Si users approach it in the same manner, you also have to take into account the development of their other functions when you ask them to process an Si experience. Remember, Si is just the way they take in information, how they sort, categorize and later regurgitate it is also heavily dependent on their T/F aspect.

    And FYI, I answer the same way you do when asked about interior decorating. Just as my Father would answer when asked what restaurant he would like to go to for his birthday: "Eh. Anyone will do, just pick one for me."

    I'm not sure why you are trying to force yourself to FEEL and get all emotional. No wonder why you end up becoming more depressed and drained. The key to dealing with illusionary emotions is to pretend they don't exist at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by EntangledLight View Post
    do you think it could also have something to do with the forms of missing people, Si in general that is? i've tried explaining this to other people but it always makes me seem calloused, or uncaring. i don't really miss people in the sense of how the word is used, or, better yet, i may just not realize it because my psyche isn't geared towards a set of functions/mechanics that would allow for such, as in my mind is focused more on what is and what the "is" isn't showing or means, more that on an intimate tie to a recreated, personal view of a reality that would, if i had it, not allow me to escape from the impact that such a reality would imbue within me?
    I think this is your Fi going nuts, your Te must be really out of shape/overwhelmed for you to be producing this kind of reaction. I don't really think your problem is with whether you are Si/Ne or Ne/Si rather- you are a Thinker surrounded by all these yucky Feelings and you have no idea how you are supposed to process/make sense of it- thereby your confusion in regards to your Information input.

    My solution to you would be to take out that underworked Fi of yours, sit down with it and try to understand the reason behind your reactions to all these sensory stimulation. You shouldn't expect to come out of it with a bleeding heart, instead your goal here should be an in depth awareness of what you feel and why you feel that way- in other words get in touch with your Fi to such a level where you won't become confused/misdirected when other people tell you what you should feel/what you aren't feeling.

    For a Thinker I know feelings are like poison to the soul yadayada, but look at what happens when you are out of touch with your Fi: Your AUNT has to tell you what you are feeling, you get confused when people tell you that you should be feeling this but you don't- basically you have no idea what you're feeling and rely on others as a crutch. It is much healthier for you to build up that connection to Fi, no matter how irritating/tiring it is and knowing yourself better than to attempt to become something you are not.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Array EntangledLight's Avatar
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    @soppixo

    i only mean that they're similar in the fashion that both rely on internalized "blank" in order to gain information or the starting grounds for a solution (i don't think i said they're interchangeable).

    i was talking about the nostalgia effect because if one were to know they were a Pi-dom, and one were to know that one type (maybe stereo-typically) is more likely to experience it/welcome it based on their dominant process while the opposing dominant function would be more likely to discount such thought (again, stereo-typically), then it would likely narrow the options for a person; not to mention focusing on two mirroring/differing aspects between two types/processes that appear to be very similar from the outside-->in, i thought, would have been a good to illustrate each. as far as what "feeling" comes from Si-rooted experience? Si is supposedly heavily rooted in feeling (everything we do is), but not in the sense of actual, readily available emotion; it has more to do with a sense of "rightness", so the discussion about the couch could go in either direction for each Si and Ni, but if it went in favor of the dominant process Si would... take the sensory data it is seeing and contrast it against their idea of a couch (?) in order to know if this particular one will fit their vision of "how their house should be/look" (i think everyone will have an idea of 'how something should look', but i believe an Si-dom would have a more intimate, rich vision?). to the Ni-dom, if the couch is important, they would access their inferior Se and focus mainly the texture, how comfortable it was, etc.; the focus on downplaying sensation in my earlier post was just an example of behavior one can associate with inferior Se, but you're right, there's no reason a tertiary Fi-type couldn't see their Si-impressions and repress the emotional response they receive.

    i don't have Fi by the way, it's Fe. trying to understand why some people who are "F's" are all "yucky" and others are seem more like "T's" can get confusing if one believes that T&F are emotion, or if one believes that someone leading with Se, Si, Ne, or Ni is either, when in reality they are their dominant and inferior processes--their judgment is secondary to the makeup of their personality. so, if i'm an Ni-dom then i will already downplay the emotive side if that's what it means--having Fe and Ti are both ways of distancing one's self from their internal source of value judgement meaning they'll fall more in the technical side when forced to do so (according to theory); so, a TP or FJ, no matter how emotional they become, they are more likely to experience it in a fashion that leaves them less able to readily pin-point and define what they are feeling, let alone search the matter out (unless it comes to their attention), but may find it easier or more natural to be aware other peoples' feelings before their own (this may change if Fe is the inferior)... (and then throwing in the enneagram only makes things more divergent).

    oh, i don't believe i rely on others as a crutch (projection? not on what you actually do, but on what you'd be likely to do?). i'll usually just have a conversation with myself in order to figure out why i reacted a certain way or why i feel a certain way--similar to your advice, but then again, having tertiary Fi will be like the big-brother version of having no Fi.

    thanks for the advice though, and welcome to the forum .

  3. #33
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    @EntangledLight

    If you put it like that, then yes they are comparable.

    I'm not exactly sure what you mean by Pi-dom? If I understand how functions work, Si correlates with Ne and Ni with Si. I do not think anyone can have both Ni and Si as their dom, if I assume that is what you mean by "Pi".

    I think it is very unlikely for a person to be using both Ni and Si consciously, as both of these functions require a high level of internal awareness, and is a process of habit that a person builds up over time and eventually becomes wired towards. Furthermore Si already has Ne as an intuitive function, I would think that for a person to flip from Si/Ne to Ni/Se it would require a complete mental breakdown and disconnection of their own identity/conscious process.

    I'm not really sure why you are attempting to roleplay both a Si and Ni, both these types do not really relate to each other beyond their basic function in a psyche. I assume, if you process the world as a Si, thinking like a true Ni-dom would require an inhuman amount of effort (to block both your natural inclination, and to exercise the intended function) for you and vice versa. If you are unsure which dom you are, attempting to type yourself from second-hand info without any in depth reflection on which is your true dominant function is just asking for further confusion.

    As a Si-dom, it is my first and most natural function, parsing sensory memory would be almost effortless for me. But in a Ni-dom, for them sensory stimulation is draining- it requires extra effort and time to process with their Ni and thus they find that using Se tires them out. This is another factor you can consider if you aren't sure about whether you're Si or Ni dom.

    I apologize for assuming that you were Fi, it does change things if you are an Fe. At least your frustration with the peripheral presence of others does seem to be more of a natural reaction. As an Fi, I tend to place priority on my internalized feelings rather than the feelings being broadcasted around me, to me it doesn't matter what others think or feel about me just as long as I'm sure about what I feel.

    I admit I was projecting in this part, and when I say feelings are yucky I actually meant it more as a joke lol. Personally I admire the big bleeding hearts of F-users, but from a distance and in small doses.

    I'm not exactly sure what point you are trying to make here (forgive me its 2am, and your way of writing is a little hard for me to follow) but I agree that neither T nor F is inherently better than the other, and that viewing T/F without taking account the rest is also a recipe for mistyping.

    But at the bottom line, just because a type may appear to react similarly to another, that is just the superficial manifestations of their internal process. To get a true accurate reading you have to understand their automatic/semi-unconscious internal process and then divide it down to its base elements and then judge the order of functions from there, rather than assuming that just because Type A and B both display the same reaction this means function A is equitable to function BC combined.

    If you want to throw in the enneagram I think I will throw in the towel, the MBTI is complicated enough as it is without including even more variations to each subtype.

    Whoops, like I admitted, I was projecting here. I assumed that it was inferior Fi causing trouble. I'm not too sure about what healthy/unhealthy Fe feels like, so you'd probably have to enlighten me more on that.

    Thanks for the welcome

  4. #34
    IRL is not real Array Cimarron's Avatar
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    @soppixo "Pi-dom" means the category with Si-dom and Ni-dom in it; it's just used to express the common traits of both--in other words, where either Ni or Si could apply. Not that the person is dominant in both, but that the scenario holds true when the person is dominant in either of the two.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array EntangledLight's Avatar
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    @soppixo

    no problem and no reason to apologize as far i see it. communicating over text is hard enough, then throw in the differences in communication style and it doubles.

    i wasn't trying to say that one is better/worse than the other, or to say that neither is above the other, just that if one is P-dom (I or E), then they are technically not judgers. this wouldn't necessarily mean that they didn't rely on technical/evaluative judgments, just that it would be a more minor part of their personality in comparison to the "power-houses" that make it up (the dominant and inferior)... but even then, it would depend on the level of growth and integration of of opposing mindsets within the person to really say what is/isn't a side of their psyche that they take into consciousness (if someone who has tertiary T(i or e) is undergoing the assimilation of that particular perspective you may see a lack of the former (F-i or e) as means to direct enough conscious energy in order for it to come about and be exposed to one's life--almost like getting used to seeing the world through a blue filter--and this can cause one appear to be a completely different type... in theory .

    i think the majority of the post was answered by Cimarron.

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