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  1. #21
    The Iron Giant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Etherea View Post
    Is it likely then for ENFP's in the grip of Si to cling to statements such as "that's how it's always been done", even when it's becoming clear that what has been done isn't really working?
    I would imagine that could be the case. Jung's description of the extraverted intuition type talks about how given to newness and novelty they are. I would expect anything that directly conflicts with this type of attitude to be some manifestation of the opposing function. I haven't been close enough to an Ne dom to see this...

    actually on second thought, maybe I have...

    I had a close friend who was an ENFP who was very wrapped up in certain impressions of, ironically enough, what an ISTJ is. She admitted to being "frightened" by me when she learned of the not particularly traditional history I have. Then at one point I did something that she totally didn't expect and she flew into a rage over it. To this day I have no idea what set her off like that, I just know what I did, that there was nothing wrong with it, that it had nothing to do with her, and that she went from being my best friend to someone who hated me. Maybe that was inferior Si... but I always thought it was Ne-Fi gone wild.

  2. #22
    The Iron Giant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Oh that makes sense. I'm pretty notorious for not holding grudges so I look very baffling changeable to some, but yes I could see where tert Si could cause grudge-holding.
    It's part of what makes my ISFP so appealing to me, to be honest: that she's so passionate about those things that are important to her that she will feel very strongly when certain boundaries are crossed. However, she is also pragmatic and intensely rational (in the more traditional sense of the word) in her approach to such matters. When she's misinterpreted something innocuous as a slight, and I recognize it, I can explain it to her and she will readily let it go. She's also quick to let go of her distaste for people when they change, or when they stop doing something that was bothering her. They don't seem to become tainted with their past behavior and suddenly intolerable no matter what they do. This is in contrast with what I've seen of INFPs, who seem to see the transgressor as permanently "evil." This may have more to do with the fact that the two most notable INFPs in my mind are also enneagram type ones. I think it goes without saying that my personal observations are based on very limited samples...

    An ISTJ I used to be close to asked me once if I thought SJs were door-slammers, and that he liked that I would never seemingly be completely "done" (barring something horrible, like abuse, flagrant disrespect, etc)...but I wonder if it's related to Si, I've always heard it in conjunction with INFJs, but maybe it's actually Si which causes this.
    I've heard that about INFJs as well. I've doorslammed, but it takes a lot to get me to let go of someone and shut them out. The INFJ I was closest to could have used a lesson in doorslamming, actually. She had a hard time letting go of me completely. When I finally doorslammed on her, I felt awful about it, but I still feel like I didn't have a choice. I also still feel guilty about it, to be honest. I'm big on closure in all things, and when I make an abrupt change, it really messes me up.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
    It's part of what makes my ISFP so appealing to me, to be honest: that she's so passionate about those things that are important to her that she will feel very strongly when certain boundaries are crossed. However, she is also pragmatic and intensely rational (in the more traditional sense of the word) in her approach to such matters. When she's misinterpreted something innocuous as a slight, and I recognize it, I can explain it to her and she will readily let it go. She's also quick to let go of her distaste for people when they change, or when they stop doing something that was bothering her. They don't seem to become tainted with their past behavior and suddenly intolerable no matter what they do. This is in contrast with what I've seen of INFPs, who seem to see the transgressor as permanently "evil." This may have more to do with the fact that the two most notable INFPs in my mind are also enneagram type ones. I think it goes without saying that my personal observations are based on very limited samples...



    I've heard that about INFJs as well. I've doorslammed, but it takes a lot to get me to let go of someone and shut them out. The INFJ I was closest to could have used a lesson in doorslamming, actually. She had a hard time letting go of me completely. When I finally doorslammed on her, I felt awful about it, but I still feel like I didn't have a choice. I also still feel guilty about it, to be honest. I'm big on closure in all things, and when I make an abrupt change, it really messes me up.
    Maybe Se/Ni or Ni/Se isn't as big on doorslamming as people suggest, if Ni keeps "reframing" the person and examining different angles of the person or the disagreement, and accepting the present as present.

    So I wonder where INFJs get this reputation for doorslamming? Probably from Fe. Fe is good at creating Je boundaries, and believe Te does the same (but in a different way) ...which may be the real reason SJs can doorslam???

    Thanks, Stephen! This has a been an interesting insight into tertiary Si!

  4. #24
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
    My Fi thread is going pretty well, and I'm really good with Si as well.

    So ask me about it, and again, let's learn together.
    Stephen,

    I've never really understood Si.
    I am the living embodiment of an Se whore.
    I consume every particle of every experience of every second I live and after taking it all inside me to experience it I'm right back devouring the next moment.

    How do I, an ESTP 7w8 use Si?
    Better yet, how do I use it constructively?
    And finally, how can it be a thorn in myt side?

    Thank you for any wisdom you can share.



    -Alex
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  5. #25
    Senior Member EntangledLight's Avatar
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    how would one know if they had Si? what would be signs to look for within oneself?

    i ask because Si and Ni seem very similar. the only reason i don't think i have Si is because i don't really have... what seems to be the attachment that Si-types can have, or the feelings/effects that are invoked from certain objects/over-arching styles of existence that correlate to their own experience. i'm confused because Si is the function that is supposed to affect the individual with a resonance of experience, so, in effect, a feeling; the confusion comes into my mind when i start to think on how inferior Se will effect the person, and how maybe the unconscious pull from the object could be mistaken for Si in someone who doesn't know any better, as in: odd feeling from conscious repression v.s. odd feeling from conscious domination; how to tell the difference?

  6. #26
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    And then from this can I ask if this means that each and every Si dominant would actually be quite different depending on context and environment? Far from the adherence to standards of tradition or routine, they instead then adhere to their own traditions and routines which are once again of this personalised nature?
    As a fellow Si-dom, I'd just like to say this mirriors my own experience as well. I would say the realty that Si constructs is based upon the individual experiences of the specific Si-user. An Si-dom growing up in a gang-heavy, high-crime neighborhood I surmise is going to have a VERY different outlook and values on life than one raised in a middle class suburb.

    My parents were both Republicans but were kind of moderate politically and very liberal with their Christianity. That rubbed off on me in that I place a lot of value in many of the things considered 'conservative' (though I'm loathe to count Republicans these days as being anything remotely conservative but that's a rant for another thread ) and because of my parents religious views, I focused more on a conscience based outlook on life which eventually lead to my deconversion and now me being an atheist. I was also diagnosed when I was a child with having mild Asperger's Syndrome so I imagine that's largely influenced my behavior as well.

    So in some ways I can be amazingly traditional but in other ways I'm not, and I credit that to my own unique life experiences that caused my Si-dominate nature to shape and judge the world as it does now. My INxJ though frequently pointed out to me where my perceptions were wrong or at least misunderstood and that was something I did appreciate about her.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
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  7. #27
    The Iron Giant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Stephen,

    I've never really understood Si.
    I am the living embodiment of an Se whore.
    I consume every particle of every experience of every second I live and after taking it all inside me to experience it I'm right back devouring the next moment.

    How do I, an ESTP 7w8 use Si?
    Better yet, how do I use it constructively?
    And finally, how can it be a thorn in myt side?

    Thank you for any wisdom you can share.



    -Alex
    Thanks for your question. I don't study or agree with the eight-function model. As a result, I don't describe Se users as Si users in any way.

  8. #28
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Stephen,

    I've never really understood Si.
    I am the living embodiment of an Se whore.
    I consume every particle of every experience of every second I live and after taking it all inside me to experience it I'm right back devouring the next moment.

    How do I, an ESTP 7w8 use Si?
    Better yet, how do I use it constructively?
    And finally, how can it be a thorn in myt side?

    Thank you for any wisdom you can share.



    -Alex
    Quote Originally Posted by EntangledLight View Post
    how would one know if they had Si? what would be signs to look for within oneself?

    i ask because Si and Ni seem very similar. the only reason i don't think i have Si is because i don't really have... what seems to be the attachment that Si-types can have, or the feelings/effects that are invoked from certain objects/over-arching styles of existence that correlate to their own experience. i'm confused because Si is the function that is supposed to affect the individual with a resonance of experience, so, in effect, a feeling; the confusion comes into my mind when i start to think on how inferior Se will effect the person, and how maybe the unconscious pull from the object could be mistaken for Si in someone who doesn't know any better, as in: odd feeling from conscious repression v.s. odd feeling from conscious domination; how to tell the difference?
    Hey all,

    I know you asked Stephen this question but being an Si-dom as well, I thought I might take a stab at this.

    Alex,

    I think the best I could do is tell you how I differ from my Se-dom friends in the way I go about doing things, in my own observations of how they seem to act, react, and process things, and hope that that might give you some insight.

    My Se-dom friends, much as you said for yourself, seem to be almost ravenous in the way they go about wanting or needing stimulation or experiences. They seem rarely content to sit on their laurels and smell the roses, they're often apt to take a few wiffs and then go, "OK, next flower please!". It's almost like you guys are consumed with a restlessness and that keeps you constantly going. Like Pac-Man, you just keep moving forward and chomping at the next bit.

    And this isn't a bad thing at all, mind you, but it does differ very much from myself. I do like new experiences and sensations as much as anyone else, but rather than feeling an overwhelming need or desire for new experiences I feel a very strong need for security and harmony. New experiences, while nice, can disrupt my inner harmony if I haven't had time to process and synthesize them into my own inner world, if that makes sense.

    This is why I'm such a creature of habit, of why I go to the same restaurants and order the same things over and over and over again....once I've established a route in my mind of how to achieve certain sensations, I don't feel the need to expand that. If a certain food brings me pleasure, then I'll stick to that food and only change when it no longer satisfies my needs. I'm an Ne-inferior so eventually my Ne will beget me to seek out something different but I greatly favor the safe and the predictable because they are dependable and sure-fire ways to achieve the things that I want.

    So....how to cultivate this sense in yourself? I would almost urge you not to at all consider your Se-ness (for lack of a better word) some sort of hinderance. Se-doms seem to be my favorite types of type to be around, your restlessness and bold-wanderer mindset is enormously refreshing and a very great boon, I feel.

    That being said...stop and slow down. Smell the roses. Take in the situation, realize that the things you want to go after will still be there and that there is nothing wrong with consistently doing the same thing, and in fact can sometimes be a strength.

    I hope that helps, even if only a little.

    EL,

    Depending on who you ask, everyone has every function, they just utilize functions better or worse than others.

    For me, Si is associating sounds, smells, and feelings with events or experiences and recalling them as such. For example, when I hear NES or SNES video game music, I immediately associate that with my childhood and the feelings and experience associated with it. I remember where I was, what I felt at the time, what I remember thinking about at the time, and how my world appeared to me at the time.

    I think this is why Si users can get so nostalgic, because we we attach so much emotion and memory to things, and to get rid of those things out of our life, is to cut ourselves out away from those experiences, emotions, feelings, etc..

    I hope that made sense. Also, I will more than readily concede that other Si-users will have a different opinion or experience than my own.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  9. #29
    The Iron Giant
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    Quote Originally Posted by EntangledLight View Post
    how would one know if they had Si? what would be signs to look for within oneself?

    i ask because Si and Ni seem very similar. the only reason i don't think i have Si is because i don't really have... what seems to be the attachment that Si-types can have, or the feelings/effects that are invoked from certain objects/over-arching styles of existence that correlate to their own experience. i'm confused because Si is the function that is supposed to affect the individual with a resonance of experience, so, in effect, a feeling; the confusion comes into my mind when i start to think on how inferior Se will effect the person, and how maybe the unconscious pull from the object could be mistaken for Si in someone who doesn't know any better, as in: odd feeling from conscious repression v.s. odd feeling from conscious domination; how to tell the difference?
    The most tangible outward expression of conscious Si use that I've seen is that blindness to the object. The problems with this are that this is much more readily noted from the outside when others tell us we're being stubborn or the like, and often naturally rejected and denied by the Si user, and that it's more pronounced at lower levels of development and self-awareness. Jung's descriptions were compiled using his experiences as a therapist, so of course the people of these types were probably more pronounced in their issues. Because Si pulls its impressions from experience, Si can present as intense nostalgia and attachment to things that may not warrant such attention. For example, in my case, I love video games that are brutally challenging, even though they frustrate me to no end. I will buy these games only to wonder why I did so once I play them. My nostalgia and attachment to a specific video game franchise has driven me to collect more than 25 years of games, some of which cost hundreds of dollars in excellent complete condition. For the most part, all I do is look at them on the shelf. They're cool, and I love having them there and telling people about them... but it's hard to explain why I have them when they're pretty damn impractical.

    Does this help at all?

  10. #30
    Senior Member EntangledLight's Avatar
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    yes it does.

    i think when it comes down to it, there will be a large similarity between the Pi functions because they're both Pi. but that sort of lets me know that my form of S is extroverted.

    first, Ni is still building from past experience just as Si is, it's just not done through the medium of internalized sensual experience--instead, i think it's done through internalized molds that certain situations fit which is why some Ni-doms can seem to be overly "mystical", or just plain and simple b.s.'ers, because the focus is taken off of the object or physical details that occurred that led to their own form of "internalized impressions", and instead is placed, again, upon the mold/construct that it can fit into... almost as if one were to look at an object and then immediately look right outside of its borders in order to see the shape that it creates as it fits into reality and through this it allows one to know gain insight into the object itself (ideally)... and how Ni-types can rely too heavily on "metaphysical" analogies to make their point, lol.

    i said the above because to me it outlines the similarities in the beginnings or origins of what Pi is--taking something that doesn't exist from reality and hoping that it allows one to understand that reality--but from there how it diverges from the same path or beam. now, i'm a little more certain that i'm more on the Ni/Se (possibly Se/Ni) scale than that of the opposite attitudes because i don't understand the nostalgia effect, if anything that sort of thinking creates an almost empty, sinking feeling within me that is almost detrimental i would say, and it causes me in a way to, when asked questions by other types that i believe to have Si that pertain to or would lead to an Si answer, my response is almost frustration, i'm like "what do you mean? it's a sofa?... it's wooden frame covered in cushion and fabric... what the hell do i care which couch i have as long as i have something that would function as a couch would?"... (a completely uncalled for response--i know)

    do you think it could also have something to do with the forms of missing people, Si in general that is? i've tried explaining this to other people but it always makes me seem calloused, or uncaring. i don't really miss people in the sense of how the word is used, or, better yet, i may just not realize it because my psyche isn't geared towards a set of functions/mechanics that would allow for such, as in my mind is focused more on what is and what the "is" isn't showing or means, more that on an intimate tie to a recreated, personal view of a reality that would, if i had it, not allow me to escape from the impact that such a reality would imbue within me?

    edit: for example... when i was young i would go to visit my ISFJ aunt during the summer. they encouraged me writing to my mom which i did like (i do love her), but i would always say that i didn't feel homesick, but upon my aunt reading my letter, she would say , "(my name) are you sure you're not homesick? this seems like a longing for what you're used to...?". and she was right, i just didn't realize it.

    sorry, i hope that answering this won't derail your thread. this is just an interesting thought on how the lack of Si may impact a person in certain ways... an attempt to have a question answered and to help shed some light on something by contrasting it, almost like "how better to know what light is than to experience total darkness?"-sort of thing.

    edit: or maybe a better way to illustrate that in a way that is coherent is:

    my girlfriend gave me a kid cudi cd for christmas and her brother borrowed it and never gave it back (probably lost it). she said she was really sorry and was upset for me, but to me, the cd is meaningless--that doesn't mean that i didn't like hearing the music every now and then (i like cudi), but it means that all that mattered was what surrounded the cd, the fact that someone gave me a gift in order show affection, which is what the cd was for, so in essence, the cd is just a physical representation or a method of conveying something that is usually hard to convey--it acts almost as a "surrogate" or prosthetic of sorts.

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