[ISTJ] Wisdom on ISTJ required

[CreativeCait]

So I'm INFP and I've had a friend for a couple years now who's ISTJ. It's been an emotional rollercoaster. After working through a previous relationship problem where I got hurt, then months later when the ISTJ found out about it, and they got hurt. I've recently been hurt again by the ISTJ and possibly reacted emotionally pushing the ISTJs buttons. I stand by my judgement that their behaviour was completely unacceptable. The ISTJ probably thinks the same thing about me. Since then, the friendship has been falling apart.

In terms of moving forward, I'm considering sending the ISTJ a message saying that I need a break/space from them but emphasising that its not a long-term thing. However, I'm concerned that this will push the ISTJ further away. I've tried so hard too hard to fix the problem with the ISTJ pushing me away, that even though they've (ambiguously) indicated they would like to talk about it at some point I don't think I can anymore. How can I navigate this without making the problems worse?? I really don't want to hurt this ISTJ or myself. And so far I'm doing terribly on that front.

Any advice or insight would be appreciated.

 

[Cimarron]

First of all, I'm not sure what your goal is. Sounds like you want to mend your friendship, but just not talk about this big issue anymore and hope you both can just "drop it" and move on? If that's the case, I'm getting the impression that they want to make up with you, too, but need some time to mellow out and let it be put to rest, and then they will talk it over with you. But you seem to not want to talk about it... In some cases, there may not really be anything to talk about. Maybe it's an irreconcilable difference in values. But at the least, they can apologize/reaffirm that they still care about you and want to be friends.

Hard to predict, but announcing a formal temporary break might be a bit powerful, and would probably push me further away. Riding this out on your own, each of you, might be the best chance in staying afloat--which is pretty much a break, just without declaring so. And then maybe talking about it after the rough seas have calmed.

If it were me, I would feel a need to talk about it eventually, I think, no matter what course is taken. Need for closure, sad but true. To make sure that I and my friend have smoothed everything out (as far as possible, anyway).


-- I hate to sound presumptuous, so anyone else add some thoughts, if you can!


--

 

[CreativeCait]

Thank you so much for your insightful reply

Sorry, I'm not entirely sure what my goal is beyond mending the friendship after I've had some space. I really want to drop it all and move on, but realistically I don't think that would work. Unless we talk about it the friendship won't actually have been "mended" and the issues would still be there. Maybe there's not much to talk about because of irreconcilable differences but I can't pretend it didn't happen and it's not an issue.

Hard to predict, but announcing a formal temporary break might be a bit powerful, and would probably push me further away. Riding this out on your own, each of you, might be the best chance in staying afloat--which is pretty much a break, just without declaring so. And then maybe talking about it after the rough seas have calmed.

If it were me, I would feel a need to talk about it eventually, I think, no matter what course is taken. Need for closure, sad but true. To make sure that I and my friend have smoothed everything out (as far as possible, anyway).

Ok, so this is what I suspected, that announcing a formal break might make things worse. I guess I just thought it would be kinder to say straight up what's going on instead of just withdrawing. I think your advice about riding it out individually, then talking about it might work. I'm just afraid that withdrawing without saying anything would send the message that I don't care. However, maybe this would not concern the ISTJ personality-type?? Being busy with comitments and things to do and so on...and assuming the same for me?

I feel some of them problem is our different preferences for Fi/Ne vs Si/Te, especially when it comes to conflict. As an ISTJ do you find it hard to get along with feeling types???

 

[CzeCze]

From my experience with confirmed ISTJs it's better to slug it out in the open and be very clear. If you allow something to end without being explicit and getting confirmstion from them you have no idea what they are really thinking or what conclusions they make. Leaving things alone generally is not a good tactic for any relationship that is built on intimacy if you dont even know exactly what your arguing about and "what the problem" is. Especially with a tj, ISTJ. Be explicit. Make a plan. Agree on it. Assume ambiguous areas of tension are infected boils that will burst at any time.

Send them an explicit email, tell them you value them and want to know what they are thinking. Set a time/date to talk or hash it out over email. I think ISTJ does better face to face.

If you just leave it I almost guarantee they will write you off or will decide to be the "bigger man" because you are the problem but things will blow up again later when you seem to throw their benevolence in their face and continue doing the "bad thing" or something like that.

Just my 2 cents

Maybe other ISTJs thinks that's of ^

 

[Cimarron]

I'm imagining the ISTJ probably prefers to talk about this sooner or later. Needs closure, and to make sure you're still friends. Probably sooner would be better, but would that be better for Cait? Not sure.

Cait says she needs space first. If that's a precondition, then I guess warning the ISTJ would be helpful. And the ISTJ might think it's silly/overreacting, but if you need the space, then I guess that's that. Remember the "we're still friends and you're still awesome" disclaimer. If you two are truly good friends, they'll still be there waiting for you when you've (both) calmed down, hopefully. Maybe some sort of middle-road would be best, but that's not my decision to make.

I was thinking that if you create space, the ISTJ might not notice, so it would be easiest not to mention it. Especially if you keep some mellow contact and not completely cut it off, just dial down conversation for a little while. By the time they notice and ask you what's up, you might be more prepared to discuss that you'd just like the two of you to get over the issue. But I'm not sure about this part. If you're going to avoid communicating with your friend in any and all forms, then refer to the paragraph above.

Usually, I get along fine with F types. Having very low T and very high F, though, can throw me off balance and make it hard for us to deal with each other, I think.

 

[Winds of Thor]

So I'm INFP and I've had a friend for a couple years now who's ISTJ. It's been an emotional rollercoaster. After working through a previous relationship problem where I got hurt, then months later when the ISTJ found out about it, and they got hurt. I've recently been hurt again by the ISTJ and possibly reacted emotionally pushing the ISTJs buttons. I stand by my judgement that their behaviour was completely unacceptable. The ISTJ probably thinks the same thing about me. Since then, the friendship has been falling apart.

In terms of moving forward, I'm considering sending the ISTJ a message saying that I need a break/space from them but emphasising that its not a long-term thing. However, I'm concerned that this will push the ISTJ further away. I've tried so hard too hard to fix the problem with the ISTJ pushing me away, that even though they've (ambiguously) indicated they would like to talk about it at some point I don't think I can anymore. How can I navigate this without making the problems worse?? I really don't want to hurt this ISTJ or myself. And so far I'm doing terribly on that front.

Any advice or insight would be appreciated.

I understand that you were hurt. The judgement is the issue. Healthy friendships ideally don't need that of each person by the other. I'd be very careful. If judging becomes a theme or anticipated in a negative context, you're going to need to turn things around. Which involves speaking good things for your friendship.

 

[CreativeCait]

Thanks for all your replies. CzeCze I think had some good points to make, but I'm not sure its right for this particular situation, as I need to take my needs into account as well on this one. So I'm going to go with Cimarron's advice and try part2 and if that doesn't work part 1. Will let you know how it goes, thanks again

Cait says she needs space first. If that's a precondition, then I guess warning the ISTJ would be helpful. And the ISTJ might think it's silly/overreacting, but if you need the space, then I guess that's that. Remember the "we're still friends and you're still awesome" disclaimer. If you two are truly good friends, they'll still be there waiting for you when you've (both) calmed down, hopefully. Maybe some sort of middle-road would be best, but that's not my decision to make.

I was thinking that if you create space, the ISTJ might not notice, so it would be easiest not to mention it. Especially if you keep some mellow contact and not completely cut it off, just dial down conversation for a little while. By the time they notice and ask you what's up, you might be more prepared to discuss that you'd just like the two of you to get over the issue. But I'm not sure about this part. If you're going to avoid communicating with your friend in any and all forms, then refer to the paragraph above.

 

[Istbkleta]

From my experience with confirmed ISTJs it's better to slug it out in the open and be very clear. If you allow something to end without being explicit and getting confirmstion from them you have no idea what they are really thinking or what conclusions they make. Leaving things alone generally is not a good tactic for any relationship that is built on intimacy if you dont even know exactly what your arguing about and "what the problem" is. Especially with a tj, ISTJ. Be explicit. Make a plan. Agree on it. Assume ambiguous areas of tension are infected boils that will burst at any time.

Send them an explicit email, tell them you value them and want to know what they are thinking. Set a time/date to talk or hash it out over email. I think ISTJ does better face to face.

If you just leave it I almost guarantee they will write you off or will decide to be the "bigger man" because you are the problem but things will blow up again later when you seem to throw their benevolence in their face and continue doing the "bad thing" or something like that.

Just my 2 cents

Maybe other ISTJs thinks that's of ^

This strikes me as great advice.

It might be useful to think about the underdeveloped and "touchy" STJ functions - Ne and Fi. In general TJs tend to throw tantrums and behave like offended children because of their immature Fi.

To my experience it's worse with STJs. Underdeveloped Ne complicates the situation with a constant supply of very murky possibilities regarding what others really mean (mind reading).


Yours sounds like a really great advice.

Unfortunately such situations seem unavoidable with TJs. And childish Fi often goes into "me wants, fuck all else". They are a handful in the grip. Very unpleasant to be around but cute when their Fi is happy.

 

[Giggly]

Is there anything you can do when someone has hurt you, doesn't want to talk about it or work on the problem, and on top of that doesn't fight for you when you want to get out of this painful thing?

There is nothing left to do but walk away.

 

[Thalassa]

It might be useful to think about the underdeveloped and "touchy" STJ functions - Ne and Fi. In general TJs tend to throw tantrums and behave like offended children because of their immature Fi.

Here is my experience of having an ISTJ father figure and being close to another male ISTJ: they seem in control and supportive and constant in a practical way without being as "warm" as some other types, but if they care about you, their presence is fierce, and it's shown through practical care or supervision (in Keirsey the ESTJ is actually are called the Supervisor and I think that's a perfect title for the STJ though, because even when they care about you very much it seems to take the form of being some kind of practical guardian...I also observe this about someone I know, and his ISTJ sister who is only like 2 years older than him, but seems like she's the "grown up" who has guided him or kept an eye on him or something, and she also comes across as quite cool, almost like she doesn't like people, until you get to know her. They all have that secret Fi).

So yeah when they have Fi splosions try to be sympathetic to the fact that as an Fi dom you have them too, except with an ISTJ they can seem much more over-the-top and meaner and unexpected. It just means they're butthurt.

Take responsibility for your side in it, tell them explicitly what they did (repeatedly if you have to)...and they may come around to your point of view if you can explain it in as rational, repetitive terms as possible. This worked with ISTJ male I was close to. He suddenly got my point of view one day, and apologized and felt bad and wanted to take it back but he couldn't, that sort of thing.

You have to be direct with ISTJs, I think, and maybe even spell things out, describe WHY things hurt you or bother you.

Your post seems awfully vague, I don't know if you were upset when you wrote it, but if you write emails or letters to your ISTJ friend try to be more specific, because the vagueness of your post even baffled me for a second.

 

[CreativeCait]

So to update, I went with the minimal communication thing and that worked really well. Since then we had an in-depth discussion that went ok. However, I challenged their motives for re-establishing the connection and it turns out that yes, they were only talking to me because they were having problems with everyone else. I dont need this kind of self-centred, fair-weather friendship. As an aquaintance I'm happy to keep in minimal contact. In this case, I don't think it is necessary to bring up the issues and deal with them anymore. However, if they need to talk through it, I may do that for them.

[MENTION]@ Marmotini [/MENTION] Marmotini yes, I'm sure this is all terribly vague. However, it is a bit of a saga, there are lots of complicated issues involved and I wanted to avoid walls of text and posting to much info on the in-ter-mi-net....Yes I was emotional when I wrote it, sometimes when a lot is going on there, not much is coming out At this stage I feel more like that bridge burnt and its time to move forward. I no longer want the friendship (at least to the depth it was) so I don't have the Fi urge to work on it or fix it. I'm happy to provide a PM summary if requested tho...

It might be useful to think about the underdeveloped and "touchy" STJ functions - Ne and Fi. In general TJs tend to throw tantrums and behave like offended children because of their immature Fi.

To my experience it's worse with STJs. Underdeveloped Ne complicates the situation with a constant supply of very murky possibilities regarding what others really mean (mind reading).

Unfortunately such situations seem unavoidable with TJs. And childish Fi often goes into "me wants, fuck all else". They are a handful in the grip. Very unpleasant to be around but cute when their Fi is happy.

This makes great sense. I think the Fi played a greater part in it than either of us realised. As a dom Fi I probably expected them to be able to understand that part of themselves better and regulate it. I think a lot of Fi came through in a Te disguise.

Is there anything you can do when someone has hurt you, doesn't want to talk about it or work on the problem, and on top of that doesn't fight for you when you want to get out of this painful thing?

There is nothing left to do but walk away.

Yes, sometimes this is the case, unfortunately Sometimes you just realise you are terrible for each other and bring out the worst in each other, making each other miserable....

So yeah when they have Fi splosions try to be sympathetic to the fact that as an Fi dom you have them too, except with an ISTJ they can seem much more over-the-top and meaner and unexpected. It just means they're butthurt.

Wish I knew this earlier

Take responsibility for your side in it, tell them explicitly what they did (repeatedly if you have to)...and they may come around to your point of view if you can explain it in as rational, repetitive terms as possible. You have to be direct with ISTJs, I think, and maybe even spell things out, describe WHY things hurt you or bother you.

Your post seems awfully vague, I don't know if you were upset when you wrote it, but if you write emails or letters to your ISTJ friend try to be more specific, because the vagueness of your post even baffled me for a second.

I was more direct with them. I gave them a second chance on it, they promised different and they let me down again, recently admitting they were too self-centred to really care enough. I give up.

Wow, an incredibly cute and fluffy animal is needed stat:

 

[Philosorapteuse]

This strikes me as great advice.

It might be useful to think about the underdeveloped and "touchy" STJ functions - Ne and Fi. In general TJs tend to throw tantrums and behave like offended children because of their immature Fi.

To my experience it's worse with STJs. Underdeveloped Ne complicates the situation with a constant supply of very murky possibilities regarding what others really mean (mind reading).

This explains so much of my IRL experience of ISTJs...