[MBTI General] xSTJ hipsters

[Sunny Ghost]

Do they exist?

 

[RaptorWizard]

The early bird gets the worm, or in this case, the Pokemon!

 

[Thalassa]

They buy super expensive clothes, worry about the environment, ironically attend sweater parties, but talk about how all of their friends are stupid hipsters who drink Pabst Blue Ribbon.

ISTJ: Can you believe how stupid these people are?

Me: Why don't you delete them off of your facebook.

ISTJ: Because it's fun to make fun of them.

 

[SD45T-2]

I'm not even sure what that means.

 

[Kurt.Is.God]

Yes, they exist. The most hipster guy I know is an ESTJ. He criticizes us for having a "Western bias" in our philosophies whenever we're talking about anything remotely intellectual, he claims he takes mushrooms to test Sartre's theory on duality, the one time I was talking about drug chemistry he chimed in an was like "Oh, yeah, methoxetamine? It's an amine, right? I know a bit about that." He bullshits pretty often, but he's legitimately smart. He reads a lot about literature and film critique and has pretty intelligent taste, and he's a philosophy major. Though I feel like at least part of the reason for everything smart he does is to appear competent. I'd guess if an ESTJ were a hipster, it would be for that reason. Whereas most people at my college just happened to fall into hipsterness (like indie/electronica, drink Pabst, etc.) because that was the environment they grew up in. I don't mind that as much.

 

[Patches]

I hate this word. "Hipster".

 

[Thalassa]

Yes, they exist. The most hipster guy I know is an ESTJ. He criticizes us for having a "Western bias" in our philosophies whenever we're talking about anything remotely intellectual, he claims he takes mushrooms to test Sartre's theory on duality, the one time I was talking about drug chemistry he chimed in an was like "Oh, yeah, methoxetamine? It's an amine, right? I know a bit about that." He bullshits pretty often, but he's legitimately smart. He reads a lot about literature and film critique and has pretty intelligent taste, and he's a philosophy major. Though I feel like at least part of the reason for everything smart he does is to appear competent. I'd guess if an ESTJ were a hipster, it would be for that reason. Whereas most people at my college just happened to fall into hipsterness (like indie/electronica, drink Pabst, etc.) because that was the environment they grew up in. I don't mind that as much.

Interesting, because your friend sounds like a real intellectual, not a hipster in the generic sense. You don't mind "generic" hipsters as much?

Oh Internet.

 

[EJCC]

From what I know of what a "real hipster" is, it's someone who

1) Likes things because they aren't mainstream (and hates them when they are); and
2) is self-involved and apathetic, and doesn't let themselves openly "like" anything, remaining bored and annoyed 24/7; and
3) has a pessimistic/nihilistic/hedonistic streak (kind of a "screw everything, let's listen to music and drink and not celebrate anything" attitude).

I have not seen these characteristics in STJs. But what I have seen from them is artistic snobbery (especially from the enneagram 1 STJs!!), as well as the reverse of the "I liked this until it was mainstream, because they sold out" attitude -- i.e. instead, "I like this, but it isn't mainstream, and that frustrates me, so I dislike mainstream things because they get in the way of the stuff I like becoming popular".

But the difference here is that for the most part, from my experience, STJs who look like hipsters are pretty sincere about the things they like. They just have really high standards, and know exactly what fits those standards and what doesn't -- and will share those judgments with everyone.

 

[Zarathustra]

I hate this word. "Hipster".

Let me guess: you liked it before it was cool?

 

[SD45T-2]

From what I know of what a "real hipster" is, it's someone who

1) Likes things because they aren't mainstream (and hates them when they are); and
2) is self-involved and apathetic, and doesn't let themselves openly "like" anything, remaining bored and annoyed 24/7; and
3) has a pessimistic/nihilistic/hedonistic streak (kind of a "screw everything, let's listen to music and drink and not celebrate anything" attitude).

I have not seen these characteristics in STJs. But what I have seen from them is artistic snobbery (especially from the enneagram 1 STJs!!), as well as the reverse of the "I liked this until it was mainstream, because they sold out" attitude -- i.e. instead, "I like this, but it isn't mainstream, and that frustrates me, so I dislike mainstream things because they get in the way of the stuff I like becoming popular".

But the difference here is that for the most part, from my experience, STJs who look like hipsters are pretty sincere about the things they like. They just have really high standards, and know exactly what fits those standards and what doesn't -- and will share those judgments with everyone.

My ISTJ best friend is into some very obscure movies/music/graphic novels/etc., but it's not because he's trying to be cool. He just has eclectic taste. He sometimes talks about how he's surprised/irritated that such-and-such hasn't become more popular.

 

[Kurt.Is.God]

From what I know of what a "real hipster" is, it's someone who

1) Likes things because they aren't mainstream (and hates them when they are); and
2) is self-involved and apathetic, and doesn't let themselves openly "like" anything, remaining bored and annoyed 24/7; and
3) has a pessimistic/nihilistic/hedonistic streak (kind of a "screw everything, let's listen to music and drink and not celebrate anything" attitude).

I have not seen these characteristics in STJs. But what I have seen from them is artistic snobbery (especially from the enneagram 1 STJs!!), as well as the reverse of the "I liked this until it was mainstream, because they sold out" attitude -- i.e. instead, "I like this, but it isn't mainstream, and that frustrates me, so I dislike mainstream things because they get in the way of the stuff I like becoming popular".

But the difference here is that for the most part, from my experience, STJs who look like hipsters are pretty sincere about the things they like. They just have really high standards, and know exactly what fits those standards and what doesn't -- and will share those judgments with everyone.

I think some might do it for status, too.

Also, I've never met anyone who actually does what your definition of a "real hipster" does. Most of the hipster people I know have that nihilistic attitude which manifests in completely insincere cultural references, but I don't think they're doing it to be cool and detached. I DO think some might look down on a sort of artistic sincerity, though. I might be guilty of this--I was kind of shocked at how honest and earnest non-postmodern literature was after not reading it for a while. Also, this.

And I've never met anyone who ACTUALLY dislikes bands because they're mainstream and likes bands because they're not. I really think that's a pretty cynical way of looking at it. Slowed down, chopped and screwed 80s pop songs just have that "trapped in cultural decay" vibe they're looking for. If it were mainstream, I think they'd like it. I mean, they like Animal Collective, and that's pretty popular. I think.

[MENTION=10240]gmanyo[/MENTION] get in this thread.

Interesting, because your friend sounds like a real intellectual, not a hipster in the generic sense. You don't mind "generic" hipsters as much?

Oh Internet.

Yeah, you're right. Pretentious != hipster.

 

[SilkRoad]

Yes, they exist. The most hipster guy I know is an ESTJ. He criticizes us for having a "Western bias" in our philosophies whenever we're talking about anything remotely intellectual, he claims he takes mushrooms to test Sartre's theory on duality, the one time I was talking about drug chemistry he chimed in an was like "Oh, yeah, methoxetamine? It's an amine, right? I know a bit about that." He bullshits pretty often, but he's legitimately smart. He reads a lot about literature and film critique and has pretty intelligent taste, and he's a philosophy major. Though I feel like at least part of the reason for everything smart he does is to appear competent. I'd guess if an ESTJ were a hipster, it would be for that reason. Whereas most people at my college just happened to fall into hipsterness (like indie/electronica, drink Pabst, etc.) because that was the environment they grew up in. I don't mind that as much.

This sounds a bit like the ESTJ I used to know, except he hadn't been to uni. He'd taken a lot of drugs when younger as part of a "meaning of life" quest - at least, that was how he described it to me. He was definitely good for a good conversation about literature and that sort of thing but I did wonder if it was, as you say, more to appear competent/just as good as anyone else, more than him really being keen about those subjects. (If I was going on about something I was passionate about, like literature, he'd seem really interested and engaged for a while and then it would always seem like he had to say something deflating or dismissive, eventually. About how unimportant those things really were, or whatever.) He actually hadn't finished school so he was self-educated in a lot of ways and I think had an inferiority complex surrounding it. Calling him a "hipster" would probably be a bit off though. I think of hipsters as being Apple drones and only listening to certain kinds of music.

My brother (ISTJ) is anything but a hipster. I'm really not one at all myself (that I'm aware of!) - but compared to him I think I look quite a lot like one.

 

[Kurt.Is.God]

This sounds a bit like the ESTJ I used to know, except he hadn't been to uni. He'd taken a lot of drugs when younger as part of a "meaning of life" quest - at least, that was how he described it to me. He was definitely good for a good conversation about literature and that sort of thing but I did wonder if it was, as you say, more to appear competent/just as good as anyone else, more than him really being keen about those subjects. (If I was going on about something I was passionate about, like literature, he'd seem really interested and engaged for a while and then it would always seem like he had to say something deflating or dismissive, eventually. About how unimportant those things really were, or whatever.) He actually hadn't finished school so he was self-educated in a lot of ways and I think had an inferiority complex surrounding it. Calling him a "hipster" would probably be a bit off though. I think of hipsters as being Apple drones and only listening to certain kinds of music.

My brother (ISTJ) is anything but a hipster. I'm really not one at all myself (that I'm aware of!) - but compared to him I think I look quite a lot like one.

Yeah, I take back what I said. Hipster isn't a good way to describe it. Pretentious, maybe. Though frequently pretentious people like hipster art because they want to be seen as having good taste.

 

[SilkRoad]

Yeah, I take back what I said. Hipster isn't a good way to describe it. Pretentious, maybe. Though frequently pretentious people like hipster art because they want to be seen as having good taste.

It can be hard to tell if people are pretentious or not, I guess. Not really a judgment I want to make most of the time.

I mean, there are people who are truly passionate about their subject for reasons beyond status and so on, but the way they talk about it may make it sound like they're bragging to make themselves look better - but that's not so much the intent. Then there are people who really are pretentious because they want to "look smart" or curry favour with certain types of people but they're not really interested in the subjects they pretend an interest in. It's to do with status and puffing themselves up. But people who have a lot of intellectual interests, etc aren't automatically pretentious.

 

[Kurt.Is.God]

It can be hard to tell if people are pretentious or not, I guess. Not really a judgment I want to make most of the time.

I mean, there are people who are truly passionate about their subject for reasons beyond status and so on, but the way they talk about it may make it sound like they're bragging to make themselves look better - but that's not so much the intent. Then there are people who really are pretentious because they want to "look smart" or curry favour with certain types of people but they're not really interested in the subjects they pretend an interest in. It's to do with status and puffing themselves up. But people who have a lot of intellectual interests, etc aren't automatically pretentious.

You're right. I'm afraid I end up doing that pretty frequently. I'm pretty sure the guy I talked about is pretentious, though. I think maybe ExTJs are susceptible to this because of their desire to appear competent. I've never met pretentious ISTJs.

 

[Giggly]

No.

At least not in the way that most people think of a hipster. They may share 1 or 2 tendencies though.

 

[SilkRoad]

No.

At least not in the way that most people think of a hipster. They may share 1 or 2 tendencies though.

If I had to pick a stereotypical hipster type, I'd probably go for INFP, ISFP or INFJ. INFP maybe a bit more likely.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I don't mean a pretentious arse. Just if there are any xSTJ's into the style, the music, the movies, literature. None of the xSTJ's I know are.

 

[Kurt.Is.God]

I don't mean a pretentious arse. Just if there are any xSTJ's into the style, the music, the movies, literature. None of the xSTJ's I know are.

Yeah, there definitely are. I went to a college where hipster culture was mainstream.

 

[Such Irony]

It's just not hip to be an xSTJ. So no.