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[ISTJ] Can an ISTJ forget the love of his life?

Lion_and_cobra

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Hello everybody,

I absolutely need your help!
My ISTJ broke up with me after 4 years together, because he thinks that our evident differences (I'm a INFP) create excessive conflict inside the relationship. :cry:
But he says that he loves me and he will always do, he says that I'm the love of his life. What I can say is that I love him more than myself and that I have never been loved so deeply by a man as by him. Furthermore, I find that our differences complement each other and I enjoy them, but he seems so stressed by the fact that we like different things or that we have a different approach to life (mine WAY more laid back:))
He seems to be very determined to stick to his decision. But when we are together - after the first moments in which he remains rigid, unemotional and cold - he always sweeten up and I really can see and feel how much he still loves me.
how do you see the situation. Can I hope for an happy end?

Many many many thanks for your help!!!:hi:
 

21%

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Hi and welcome! :)

I'm sorry about the situation. I think there might be deeper issues than just "differences in personality". I mean, you don't really break up with someone just because they like different things. How bad are the 'conflicts'? Do you want totally different lifestyles? There must be something important that he felt wasn't working out?
 

Giggly

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That really sucks. :(

This week I've become most fascinated with the INFP+ESTJ romantic combo. I'm really curious about how this dynamic plays out.
 

Lion_and_cobra

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More details

Thanks guys for your answers,

I will try to be more clear. I and my love come from very different backgrounds (country, family, social environment, experience of life).
I have now a very good job and live and work in a "conservative environment", and I feel good and serene in it, but in the past I had difficulties finding my way and I did some "borderline experiences". In addition, I'm very liberal, "live and live" is my way.
My love has always lived in a very conservative environment, he has always been very responsible and serious. He is very strict about how life has to be lived. Tend to per-judge a lot. He says that "the past explains the future" and he thinks that I will be back to behaviors that he disapproves.
I left my past behind me years ago, I feel happy, satisfied, and safe in my current life. But my partner try to find signs of fault in every little thing or word. I have to admit that once I lied about a mail that I sent to a former boyfriend for his birthday, as this guy was living in a very difficult situation. I didn't tell my partner because I was scared of his reactions knowing how much he is insecure and scared of my past, he discovered this mail (absolutely innocent and brief) and since then on he has created a system. Every word I say is a proof that I'm not good for him. He sees things that don't exist (that I flirt or smile to men).
Please don't misunderstand me. He is a wonderful person. Caring, loving, generous, but scared of everything, with the mania to control everything. I love him sincerely, I have always respected him deeply. I want to share with him my whole life, but I fear that he is gone for good.
Is there any ISTJ that can answer my question: An ISTJ can overcome his fears of what is different for love?
I have learned that I have not to lie anymore, not even on small things, but he doesn't give me another possibility, he has gone to far, has built a system in his mind.

Pls HELP. I feel lost:(
 

21%

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Thanks guys for your answers,

I will try to be more clear. I and my love come from very different backgrounds (country, family, social environment, experience of life).
I have now a very good job and live and work in a "conservative environment", and I feel good and serene in it, but in the past I had difficulties finding my way and I did some "borderline experiences". In addition, I'm very liberal, "live and live" is my way.
My love has always lived in a very conservative environment, he has always been very responsible and serious. He is very strict about how life has to be lived. Tend to per-judge a lot. He says that "the past explains the future" and he thinks that I will be back to behaviors that he disapproves.
I left my past behind me years ago, I feel happy, satisfied, and safe in my current life. But my partner try to find signs of fault in every little thing or word. I have to admit that once I lied about a mail that I sent to a former boyfriend for his birthday, as this guy was living in a very difficult situation. I didn't tell my partner because I was scared of his reactions knowing how much he is insecure and scared of my past, he discovered this mail (absolutely innocent and brief) and since then on he has created a system. Every word I say is a proof that I'm not good for him. He sees things that don't exist (that I flirt or smile to men).
Please don't misunderstand me. He is a wonderful person. Caring, loving, generous, but scared of everything, with the mania to control everything. I love him sincerely, I have always respected him deeply. I want to share with him my whole life, but I fear that he is gone for good.
Is there any ISTJ that can answer my question: An ISTJ can overcome his fears of what is different for love?
I have learned that I have not to lie anymore, not even on small things, but he doesn't give me another possibility, he has gone to far, has built a system in his mind.

Pls HELP. I feel lost:(
I know you are hurting right now. But based on what you said, especially the bolded parts, are you sure he is going to be good for you? Yes, your past is part of who you are now, and if he rejects that, it means he is putting his 'ideals' before 'you'. Even if you get back together, he is going to reject who you are and try to change you into something he wants you to be. That, in my opinion, is selfish. Do you think you will be able to have a fulfilling relationship with this man?

That said, I know you can't help it sometimes. Love is irrational. The key to everything is to communicate, and love is about compromises. He cannot expect you to make all the compromises. He might be facing mental blocks at the moment, because it is very hard to go against what you have been raised with and taught to believe in. That is his part to do, if the relationship is ever going to work out. So, yes, he may still feel something for you, but if he cannot overcome his own ideas of how things should or should not be, there isn't anything you can do about it. Your post didn't say, but I'm going to guess that your ISTJ came from a strict, religious background. For such people, you have to understand that it is very, very hard for them to rebel against that.

All I can say to you at the moment is: be strong. Be yourself. Stand up for what you think is right. If it's going to work out, then it's going to work out. If not, no matter what you do it's never going to work. Right now, try to heal, try to become more independent. If you love him, then love him. But don't expect anything in return. If he cannot see past that, it's his loss. Right now try to work on yourself now to build up the strength to become secure and healthy and forgiving.

:hug:
 

Lion_and_cobra

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I'm already working on myself with the help of a psychiatrist as the pain of this break up is for me unbearable. And about being forgiving this is easy: it is in my nature.

[MENTION=6971]21%[/MENTION] .. you are right in almost everything but about the religious stuff. We are both atheist. He is conservative for the social environment where he has always lived (bourgeois, moralist, linked to values as honor, family, modesty).

However, while he always was scared by my past (very liberal sexuality and some drug use), he managed to control his fears at the beginning. Everything has changed after I lied on the mail to a former boyfriend. It is such as, all in a sudden, his ghosts became real. Afterwards he has started to see me under a different light and entered in a deep paranoia that ended up with this break up.

How to gain back his trust? And how to help him to understand that my past has helped me to understand what I really want , that is the life I have now. I try to tell him but he answers "facts not words". But how I can proof something that lays in the future? I have never cheated him, I try to dress more conservative as possible, I am a devoted partner Nothing is enough for him.
 

Mia.

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This is just from my own experience, so take it as anecdotal.

Hello everybody,
I absolutely need your help!
My ISTJ broke up with me after 4 years together, because he thinks that our evident differences (I'm a INFP) create excessive conflict inside the relationship. :cry:
Furthermore, I find that our differences complement each other and I enjoy them, but he seems so stressed by the fact that we like different things or that we have a different approach to life (mine WAY more laid back:))

There are going to be major differences for the rest of your lives, which isn’t a bad thing, especially with the TJ/FP differences. The ability to view them as complimentary rather than antagonistic is going to depend on the maturity of the individuals involved. Mature STJs (any type that is mature, actually) will learn to appreciate the differences that drew them to you in the first place. Immature ones will view you as a lifelong pity project that they are responsible for and pour all their energy into fixing what they see as broken rather than nurturance. My ESTJ openly states ESFP is the ideal type, and continually tries to push me in that direction and probably always will. He has little tolerance and appreciation for my N-ness, which he labels weird and inferior. I adore him, feel completely satisfied with my life and wouldn’t change a thing, but in general I ascribe to the idea that iNtuitives should be with iNtuitives, and Sensors should be with Sensors. I think in our case it would have made him infinitely happier, and that is my one regret.

It sounds like ultimately he appreciates your personality differences or he wouldn’t call you the love of his life. Are you sure it’s the personality differences, or your past and current behavior that is the problem?

I will try to be more clear. I and my love come from very different backgrounds (country, family, social environment, experience of life).

This is my case as well. My husband comes from an affluent, east coast background. I come from a rural, blue collar background. I worked hard for everything I have in life. Although he is hard-working, he had most things handed to him. He is very aware of the classes, and is disdainful of people from different backgrounds and perspectives. Difference in background can factor heavily for this type. I know it has factored heavily over the years for mine.

I have now a very good job and live and work in a "conservative environment", and I feel good and serene in it, but in the past I had difficulties finding my way and I did some "borderline experiences".

This is very nebulous. It seems to factor heavily into his decision-making, so it is hard to understand where he might be coming from without knowing more.

He is very strict about how life has to be lived. Tend to per-judge a lot.

This is just how STJs are. They tend to expect that they get to make the rules. This is just something you’re going to have to learn to adapt to and negotiate with if you continue together. Often it is good, because it results in growth on our part, for which I’ve always been thankful. However, it can become extremely demoralizing when you can’t perform to their expectations as fast as they demand, or don’t agree with the expectations in the first place. I’ve never been a sensitive person and take criticism well, so that helped immensely, but assertiveness with those I care for was never my strong suit. I’ve developed quite a backbone over 10 years.

He says that "the past explains the future" and he thinks that I will be back to behaviors that he disapproves.
I left my past behind me years ago, I feel happy, satisfied, and safe in my current life. But my partner try to find signs of fault in every little thing or word. I have to admit that once I lied about a mail that I sent to a former boyfriend for his birthday, as this guy was living in a very difficult situation. I didn't tell my partner because I was scared of his reactions knowing how much he is insecure and scared of my past, he discovered this mail (absolutely innocent and brief) and since then on he has created a system. Every word I say is a proof that I'm not good for him. He sees things that don't exist (that I flirt or smile to men).

You screwed yourself here, sorry.

1. These types (and most people) base trust on established behavior. Present behavior if given enough elapsed time can definitely override past behavior and demonstrate genuine change. But if your past involved lying, betrayal, and omission, no matter what the reason, and he caught you doing it again, he has every right to be distrustful. Even if he didn’t like that you were sending it, if you had told him about it, he would at least have the assurance you don’t hide things from him and you can have an honest dialogue and the integrity of the intimacy is preserved. Now you have two problems instead of one – he doesn’t like that you did it, and he thinks you’re sneaky and not safe. And once you have that problem with an STJ, good luck, you’re in for some work. They have the memory of an elephant.

My ESTJ was screwed over by an ESFP before we got together. He was incapable of trust, and says he picked me because he knew me and knew he would never be hurt or betrayed by me, and that I would never leave/abandon/reject him, and yet I still spent 8 years cleaning up after a mess that I didn’t even have anything to do with. I considered him completely worth the work needed. I am extremely transparent with him. Even if he doesn’t like something I do, he knows I don’t hide things. That is the foundation of intimacy and trust. If you yourself were/are the one demonstrating dubious behavior, you’d better mean it when you say you love him, because it’s going to take an incredible amount of work and time to fix it.

2. If it were truly innocent, you should have been able to tell him about it. And he knows this. He shouldn't hold your past against you if your behavior is clearly different now. We all make mistakes, we all can change, and we all need grace. We also need sympathy, empathy, and for people to see and appreciate and call forth the real us despite our struggles. If you have a struggle, be honest with him. Trust can be forged when transparency is there.... having a problem isn't the problem....hiding the problem is the problem.

Please don't misunderstand me. He is a wonderful person. Caring, loving, generous, but scared of everything, with the mania to control everything.

Yes, they are wonderful people. And yes, control is everything with them.

I love him sincerely, I have always respected him deeply. I want to share with him my whole life, but I fear that he is gone for good.
Is there any ISTJ that can answer my question: An ISTJ can overcome his fears of what is different for love?
I have learned that I have not to lie anymore, not even on small things, but he doesn't give me another possibility, he has gone to far, has built a system in his mind.

It took 8 years of consistent behavior on my part as well as professional therapy on his part for my ESTJ to get over something that didn’t even originate with me. You have do some serious introspection to ask yourself how committed you are to him and cleaning up any messes you’ve made.

I have learned that I have not to lie anymore, not even on small things, but he doesn't give me another possibility, he has gone to far, has built a system in his mind.

If someone will lie in small things they will lie in big things. Especially if they used to lie about big things in the past and that path is already familiar. Not lying or omitting any longer is a great start. :hug: You just have to figure out whether you want to put the time into cleaning it up given the road might be extremely difficult with this type, whether he himself is up for the work involved, and the rigorous transparency necessary to providing the contrast between then and now.
 

Lion_and_cobra

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[MENTION=15004]mia_infp[/MENTION]

Thank you very much for your long and detailed answer. It is somewhat comforting to see that a relationship between a STJ and a NFP can work even if it requires a lot of work.
You can't imagine how much I regret my lie. I really hope that I can make up for it one day. He is the most precious part of my life.
My question to you would be the following. He says that he still loves me and always will. Do you think that an ISTJ can deliberately kill the love in their heart if they think that the relationship can't work?
The fact is that I think that until there is love there is hope, but I fear that he is trying to disconnect emotionally from me (overworking, trying always to be between people, etc.).
 

Mia.

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[MENTION=15004]mia_infp[/MENTION]

Thank you very much for your long and detailed answer. It is somewhat comforting to see that a relationship between a STJ and a NFP can work even if it requires a lot of work.
You can't imagine how much I regret my lie. I really hope that I can make up for it one day. He is the most precious part of my life.
My question to you would be the following. He says that he still loves me and always will. Do you think that an ISTJ can deliberately kill the love in their heart if they think that the relationship can't work?
The fact is that I think that until there is love there is hope, but I fear that he is trying to disconnect emotionally from me (overworking, trying always to be between people, etc.).

We all make mistakes, hun. Regardless of what happens, don't continue to beat yourself up over it. Ask for forgiveness, then forgive yourself and go into the future empowered.

To be honest, I have no idea. I know with mine, he continued to have feelings for her for years and years afterward, despite the relationship being over. I say that because he had so much extreme anger, and the opposite of love is apathy, not hate.

He might deny or ignore them, but his feelings for you will most likely still be there is my guess. Whether that will affect his decision-making, I can't say.
 

PeaceBaby

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I am an INFP married to an ESTJ - 23 years now.

I can share some thoughts here, but will have to do it later - posting this to remind myself to come back to this thread.

In the meantime, if you feel comfortable, please share your age, either here or in PM as it bears relevance to your situation.
 

magda

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Thanks guys for your answers,

I will try to be more clear. I and my love come from very different backgrounds (country, family, social environment, experience of life).
I have now a very good job and live and work in a "conservative environment", and I feel good and serene in it, but in the past I had difficulties finding my way and I did some "borderline experiences". In addition, I'm very liberal, "live and live" is my way.
My love has always lived in a very conservative environment, he has always been very responsible and serious. He is very strict about how life has to be lived. Tend to per-judge a lot. He says that "the past explains the future" and he thinks that I will be back to behaviors that he disapproves.
I left my past behind me years ago, I feel happy, satisfied, and safe in my current life. But my partner try to find signs of fault in every little thing or word. I have to admit that once I lied about a mail that I sent to a former boyfriend for his birthday, as this guy was living in a very difficult situation. I didn't tell my partner because I was scared of his reactions knowing how much he is insecure and scared of my past, he discovered this mail (absolutely innocent and brief) and since then on he has created a system. Every word I say is a proof that I'm not good for him. He sees things that don't exist (that I flirt or smile to men).
Please don't misunderstand me. He is a wonderful person. Caring, loving, generous, but scared of everything, with the mania to control everything. I love him sincerely, I have always respected him deeply. I want to share with him my whole life, but I fear that he is gone for good.
Is there any ISTJ that can answer my question: An ISTJ can overcome his fears of what is different for love?
I have learned that I have not to lie anymore, not even on small things, but he doesn't give me another possibility, he has gone to far, has built a system in his mind.

Pls HELP. I feel lost:(
1-Does he know that you still love him and he is the most precious person in your life?
2- has he moved on/ in a new relationship?
3- Are you in a new relationship?
Love is love is love is love...... so if the feeling mutual then give it another go. I think he has a mental block.... Have you ever tried to get help/ like counselling?
It seems that he is a great person and human being so dont loose him.... be honest with him and tell him how you feel then take i from there...
I really wish you the best of luck....
 

Cimarron

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[MENTION=15004]
My question to you would be the following. He says that he still loves me and always will. Do you think that an ISTJ can deliberately kill the love in their heart if they think that the relationship can't work?
The fact is that I think that until there is love there is hope, but I fear that he is trying to disconnect emotionally from me (overworking, trying always to be between people, etc.).
I think so, and apathy and disconnection are the ways to do it. However, it's not easy. It's my opinion that ISTJs have a hard time "letting go"...
 

21%

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It's my opinion that ISTJs have a hard time "letting go"...
I agree. Sometimes they will appear to have completely moved on, but deep down still hold on to their feelings which they will never show or admit to anyone...
 

Lion_and_cobra

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Guys thanks a lot for your help.

[MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION]

I'm 39 and my partner 51. He feels that our age difference is a strong drag, as I'm too much energetic and passionate of life, and he thinks that soon or later I will get bored of him (this is false!!)

[MENTION=14837]magda[/MENTION]
magda said:
1. Does he know that you still love him and he is the most precious person in your life?
I told him many times but he answers "facts not words!". I cover him of facts, of affection, romantic dinners, physical and emotional attention, but if I only do a small mistake or I say a wrong word (that he regularly misinterprets), all the efforts are destroyed. The problem is that after my lie on the mail he doesn't trust me anymore, he looks with suspect to any insignificant detail. He twist facts and words to put everything inside his catastrophic picture (for example he says that when I dress nicely I do it to attract men)

magda said:
2- has he moved on/ in a new relationship?
3- Are you in a new relationship?

No, none of us is in a new relationship. Our break up is relatively fresh (one month)

magda said:
Have you ever tried to get help/ like counselling?

Yes we tried but unsuccessfully. He remains stuck in the conviction that we can't match (and this is for me absolutely false. I enjoy so much our differences!). But he partially recognizes his rigidity and to be excessively risk adverse, we have started an individual therapy and I really hope in it but my partner also says that he is too old to change.

[MENTION=4883]Cimarron[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6971]21%[/MENTION]

I really can see that he has a hard time to move on as he alternate distance and cold behavior with sweetness and affection. I really feel that he is struggling with himself to keep quiet his emotions. Only to give an example, two weeks ago he cancelled all his appointments of the day and of the day after to reach me in Washington DC (where I live) from NYC to tell me that he cannot live without me and that he must forget the past. But after he left my house, he regretted terribly what he did and he told me that that was his "last swansong" and he must move on.
 

Giggly

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Some people have what's called a 'critical spirit'.
 

entropie

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I'm 39 and my partner 51. He feels that our age difference is a strong drag, as I'm too much energetic and passionate of life, and he thinks that soon or later I will get bored of him (this is false!!)

[MENTION=14837]magda[/MENTION]

I told him many times but he answers "facts not words!". I cover him of facts, of affection, romantic dinners, physical and emotional attention, but if I only do a small mistake or I say a wrong word (that he regularly misinterprets), all the efforts are destroyed. The problem is that after my lie on the mail he doesn't trust me anymore, he looks with suspect to any insignificant detail. He twist facts and words to put everything inside his catastrophic picture (for example he says that when I dress nicely I do it to attract men)

Sounds and feels to me as a man that he has a mixed problem. On the one hand he is totally afraid too loose you (as in you dress too attractive) and on the other hand that he thinks he's too old for you. This then results in him pushing you away so he doesnt have to confront his own fears and emotions. Thats a quite typical IJ.

My strategy would be to confront him with his own emotions. So far you probably have been doing anything to keep him and thats the problem, I'ld now do the exact opposite thing and show him that if he doesnt come clear he will loose you. You have to do that tho with a lot of carefulness, cause he sounds like having a helper nature and will prolly think its the best for everyone if he splits the relationship because he is such an old man. Therefore he'll prolly want to be the tragical hero in the situation and you have to confront him openly with that.

When you tell him that you love him and he says "facts please" ask him what he means by facts ? If he answers you should know that yourself then say "no i dont, but I want to know cause I love you". if he then says that he cant tell you because then you'ld just copy what he has said, say "you'll tell me and I'll decide what I can copy and what not".

It's important that he learns that you are an individual which has the same responsibility and caring for his own life, like he does and that not he is the only one who would always care for your relationship. He needs to learn about your worst feelings and has to understand rationally or emotionally that you love him and that you have good reasons for choosing him as a man.

I have similiar problems with my infp. I regulary ask myself why she just loves me and not somebody else. When I ask her about it, she doesnt give me a rational answer. Truth tho is there is no rational answers, its just because she loves me. That concept I do not understand, cause I could make you a 100 points list about why I love her. Thats a big issue between strong thinking and strong feeling types. I have learnt tho to respect that her way to decide is differently and I have learnt that I can trust her feelings not being volatile but once set in place, set in place forever. Its not always easy for a thinker to process that, therefore you have to attack him with what you are best at and thats your feeling side speaking to his feeling side and demanding it to explain itself.

if he tries to get rid of you with rational arguements always turn back and ask him what he feels, for so long until he starts speaking. And if he shouldnt then bore deeper, show him that you are serious, but carefully he sounds like a tragical hero.

All not easy, I sure could never make it. I'ld prolly run away and bomb everything (as in tragical hero) but thats why we have you F-types, to care for us and to show us what we want and feel on the inside. I wish you the best of luck.
 

Giggly

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Is that like being cranky? :huh:

When I think about it, I guess it is. lol

Sounds and feels to me as a man that he has a mixed problem. On the one hand he is totally afraid too loose you (as in you dress too attractive) and on the other hand that he thinks he's too old for you. This then results in him pushing you away so he doesnt have to confront his own fears and emotions. Thats a quite typical IJ.

My strategy would be to confront him with his own emotions. So far you probably have been doing anything to keep him and thats the problem, I'ld now do the exact opposite thing and show him that if he doesnt come clear he will loose you. You have to do that tho with a lot of carefulness, cause he sounds like having a helper nature and will prolly think its the best for everyone if he splits the relationship because he is such an old man. Therefore he'll prolly want to be the tragical hero in the situation and you have to confront him openly with that.

When you tell him that you love him and he says "facts please" ask him what he means by facts ? If he answers you should know that yourself then say "no i dont, but I want to know cause I love you". if he then says that he cant tell you because then you'ld just copy what he has said, say "you'll tell me and I'll decide what I can copy and what not".

It's important that he learns that you are an individual which has the same responsibility and caring for his own life, like he does and that not he is the only one who would always care for your relationship. He needs to learn about your worst feelings and has to understand rationally or emotionally that you love him and that you have good reasons for choosing him as a man.

I have similiar problems with my infp. I regulary ask myself why she just loves me and not somebody else. When I ask her about it, she doesnt give me a rational answer. Truth tho is there is no rational answers, its just because she loves me. That concept I do not understand, cause I could make you a 100 points list about why I love her. Thats a big issue between strong thinking and strong feeling types. I have learnt tho to respect that her way to decide is differently and I have learnt that I can trust her feelings not being volatile but once set in place, set in place forever. Its not always easy for a thinker to process that, therefore you have to attack him with what you are best at and thats your feeling side speaking to his feeling side and demanding it to explain itself.

if he tries to get rid of you with rational arguements always turn back and ask him what he feels, for so long until he starts speaking. And if he shouldnt then bore deeper, show him that you are serious, but carefully he sounds like a tragical hero.

All not easy, I sure could never make it. I'ld prolly run away and bomb everything (as in tragical hero) but thats why we have you F-types, to care for us and to show us what we want and feel on the inside. I wish you the best of luck.

This is a good post. Very informative... thank you.

I've been on the receiving end of tragic hero thing before in the past. It's very confusing and painful. But I think in the end there's nothing you can do but let them go and realize that it wasn't meant to be.
 

citizen cane

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It's not so much a matter of forgetting as moving on.



Also, IMO it's never worth it to stay in a relationship where someone constantly judges you. Especially not when it seems like they're waiting for you to make a mistake so they can justify their own beliefs about you.
 
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