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  1. #11
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    I am an INFP married to an ESTJ - 23 years now.

    I can share some thoughts here, but will have to do it later - posting this to remind myself to come back to this thread.

    In the meantime, if you feel comfortable, please share your age, either here or in PM as it bears relevance to your situation.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #12
    Junior Member magda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion_and_cobra View Post
    Thanks guys for your answers,

    I will try to be more clear. I and my love come from very different backgrounds (country, family, social environment, experience of life).
    I have now a very good job and live and work in a "conservative environment", and I feel good and serene in it, but in the past I had difficulties finding my way and I did some "borderline experiences". In addition, I'm very liberal, "live and live" is my way.
    My love has always lived in a very conservative environment, he has always been very responsible and serious. He is very strict about how life has to be lived. Tend to per-judge a lot. He says that "the past explains the future" and he thinks that I will be back to behaviors that he disapproves.
    I left my past behind me years ago, I feel happy, satisfied, and safe in my current life. But my partner try to find signs of fault in every little thing or word. I have to admit that once I lied about a mail that I sent to a former boyfriend for his birthday, as this guy was living in a very difficult situation. I didn't tell my partner because I was scared of his reactions knowing how much he is insecure and scared of my past, he discovered this mail (absolutely innocent and brief) and since then on he has created a system. Every word I say is a proof that I'm not good for him. He sees things that don't exist (that I flirt or smile to men).
    Please don't misunderstand me. He is a wonderful person. Caring, loving, generous, but scared of everything, with the mania to control everything. I love him sincerely, I have always respected him deeply. I want to share with him my whole life, but I fear that he is gone for good.
    Is there any ISTJ that can answer my question: An ISTJ can overcome his fears of what is different for love?
    I have learned that I have not to lie anymore, not even on small things, but he doesn't give me another possibility, he has gone to far, has built a system in his mind.

    Pls HELP. I feel lost
    1-Does he know that you still love him and he is the most precious person in your life?
    2- has he moved on/ in a new relationship?
    3- Are you in a new relationship?
    Love is love is love is love...... so if the feeling mutual then give it another go. I think he has a mental block.... Have you ever tried to get help/ like counselling?
    It seems that he is a great person and human being so dont loose him.... be honest with him and tell him how you feel then take i from there...
    I really wish you the best of luck....

  3. #13
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion_and_cobra View Post

    My question to you would be the following. He says that he still loves me and always will. Do you think that an ISTJ can deliberately kill the love in their heart if they think that the relationship can't work?
    The fact is that I think that until there is love there is hope, but I fear that he is trying to disconnect emotionally from me (overworking, trying always to be between people, etc.).
    I think so, and apathy and disconnection are the ways to do it. However, it's not easy. It's my opinion that ISTJs have a hard time "letting go"...
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  4. #14
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    It's my opinion that ISTJs have a hard time "letting go"...
    I agree. Sometimes they will appear to have completely moved on, but deep down still hold on to their feelings which they will never show or admit to anyone...
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  5. #15
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    Guys thanks a lot for your help.

    @PeaceBaby

    I'm 39 and my partner 51. He feels that our age difference is a strong drag, as I'm too much energetic and passionate of life, and he thinks that soon or later I will get bored of him (this is false!!)

    @magda
    Quote Originally Posted by magda
    1. Does he know that you still love him and he is the most precious person in your life?
    I told him many times but he answers "facts not words!". I cover him of facts, of affection, romantic dinners, physical and emotional attention, but if I only do a small mistake or I say a wrong word (that he regularly misinterprets), all the efforts are destroyed. The problem is that after my lie on the mail he doesn't trust me anymore, he looks with suspect to any insignificant detail. He twist facts and words to put everything inside his catastrophic picture (for example he says that when I dress nicely I do it to attract men)

    Quote Originally Posted by magda
    2- has he moved on/ in a new relationship?
    3- Are you in a new relationship?
    No, none of us is in a new relationship. Our break up is relatively fresh (one month)

    Quote Originally Posted by magda
    Have you ever tried to get help/ like counselling?
    Yes we tried but unsuccessfully. He remains stuck in the conviction that we can't match (and this is for me absolutely false. I enjoy so much our differences!). But he partially recognizes his rigidity and to be excessively risk adverse, we have started an individual therapy and I really hope in it but my partner also says that he is too old to change.

    @Cimarron and @21%

    I really can see that he has a hard time to move on as he alternate distance and cold behavior with sweetness and affection. I really feel that he is struggling with himself to keep quiet his emotions. Only to give an example, two weeks ago he cancelled all his appointments of the day and of the day after to reach me in Washington DC (where I live) from NYC to tell me that he cannot live without me and that he must forget the past. But after he left my house, he regretted terribly what he did and he told me that that was his "last swansong" and he must move on.

  6. #16
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Some people have what's called a 'critical spirit'.

  7. #17
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Some people have what's called a 'critical spirit'.
    Is that like being cranky?
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  8. #18
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion_and_cobra View Post
    I'm 39 and my partner 51. He feels that our age difference is a strong drag, as I'm too much energetic and passionate of life, and he thinks that soon or later I will get bored of him (this is false!!)

    @magda

    I told him many times but he answers "facts not words!". I cover him of facts, of affection, romantic dinners, physical and emotional attention, but if I only do a small mistake or I say a wrong word (that he regularly misinterprets), all the efforts are destroyed. The problem is that after my lie on the mail he doesn't trust me anymore, he looks with suspect to any insignificant detail. He twist facts and words to put everything inside his catastrophic picture (for example he says that when I dress nicely I do it to attract men)
    Sounds and feels to me as a man that he has a mixed problem. On the one hand he is totally afraid too loose you (as in you dress too attractive) and on the other hand that he thinks he's too old for you. This then results in him pushing you away so he doesnt have to confront his own fears and emotions. Thats a quite typical IJ.

    My strategy would be to confront him with his own emotions. So far you probably have been doing anything to keep him and thats the problem, I'ld now do the exact opposite thing and show him that if he doesnt come clear he will loose you. You have to do that tho with a lot of carefulness, cause he sounds like having a helper nature and will prolly think its the best for everyone if he splits the relationship because he is such an old man. Therefore he'll prolly want to be the tragical hero in the situation and you have to confront him openly with that.

    When you tell him that you love him and he says "facts please" ask him what he means by facts ? If he answers you should know that yourself then say "no i dont, but I want to know cause I love you". if he then says that he cant tell you because then you'ld just copy what he has said, say "you'll tell me and I'll decide what I can copy and what not".

    It's important that he learns that you are an individual which has the same responsibility and caring for his own life, like he does and that not he is the only one who would always care for your relationship. He needs to learn about your worst feelings and has to understand rationally or emotionally that you love him and that you have good reasons for choosing him as a man.

    I have similiar problems with my infp. I regulary ask myself why she just loves me and not somebody else. When I ask her about it, she doesnt give me a rational answer. Truth tho is there is no rational answers, its just because she loves me. That concept I do not understand, cause I could make you a 100 points list about why I love her. Thats a big issue between strong thinking and strong feeling types. I have learnt tho to respect that her way to decide is differently and I have learnt that I can trust her feelings not being volatile but once set in place, set in place forever. Its not always easy for a thinker to process that, therefore you have to attack him with what you are best at and thats your feeling side speaking to his feeling side and demanding it to explain itself.

    if he tries to get rid of you with rational arguements always turn back and ask him what he feels, for so long until he starts speaking. And if he shouldnt then bore deeper, show him that you are serious, but carefully he sounds like a tragical hero.

    All not easy, I sure could never make it. I'ld prolly run away and bomb everything (as in tragical hero) but thats why we have you F-types, to care for us and to show us what we want and feel on the inside. I wish you the best of luck.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #19
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    Is that like being cranky?
    When I think about it, I guess it is. lol

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Sounds and feels to me as a man that he has a mixed problem. On the one hand he is totally afraid too loose you (as in you dress too attractive) and on the other hand that he thinks he's too old for you. This then results in him pushing you away so he doesnt have to confront his own fears and emotions. Thats a quite typical IJ.

    My strategy would be to confront him with his own emotions. So far you probably have been doing anything to keep him and thats the problem, I'ld now do the exact opposite thing and show him that if he doesnt come clear he will loose you. You have to do that tho with a lot of carefulness, cause he sounds like having a helper nature and will prolly think its the best for everyone if he splits the relationship because he is such an old man. Therefore he'll prolly want to be the tragical hero in the situation and you have to confront him openly with that.

    When you tell him that you love him and he says "facts please" ask him what he means by facts ? If he answers you should know that yourself then say "no i dont, but I want to know cause I love you". if he then says that he cant tell you because then you'ld just copy what he has said, say "you'll tell me and I'll decide what I can copy and what not".

    It's important that he learns that you are an individual which has the same responsibility and caring for his own life, like he does and that not he is the only one who would always care for your relationship. He needs to learn about your worst feelings and has to understand rationally or emotionally that you love him and that you have good reasons for choosing him as a man.

    I have similiar problems with my infp. I regulary ask myself why she just loves me and not somebody else. When I ask her about it, she doesnt give me a rational answer. Truth tho is there is no rational answers, its just because she loves me. That concept I do not understand, cause I could make you a 100 points list about why I love her. Thats a big issue between strong thinking and strong feeling types. I have learnt tho to respect that her way to decide is differently and I have learnt that I can trust her feelings not being volatile but once set in place, set in place forever. Its not always easy for a thinker to process that, therefore you have to attack him with what you are best at and thats your feeling side speaking to his feeling side and demanding it to explain itself.

    if he tries to get rid of you with rational arguements always turn back and ask him what he feels, for so long until he starts speaking. And if he shouldnt then bore deeper, show him that you are serious, but carefully he sounds like a tragical hero.

    All not easy, I sure could never make it. I'ld prolly run away and bomb everything (as in tragical hero) but thats why we have you F-types, to care for us and to show us what we want and feel on the inside. I wish you the best of luck.
    This is a good post. Very informative... thank you.

    I've been on the receiving end of tragic hero thing before in the past. It's very confusing and painful. But I think in the end there's nothing you can do but let them go and realize that it wasn't meant to be.

  10. #20
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    It's not so much a matter of forgetting as moving on.



    Also, IMO it's never worth it to stay in a relationship where someone constantly judges you. Especially not when it seems like they're waiting for you to make a mistake so they can justify their own beliefs about you.

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