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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owfin View Post
    Question 2. What's a "Si heavy decision"?
    A decision made based predominantly on the Si preference while making compromises with the other preferences.

    For example most of my decisions are done so they:
    1. Ensure the maximum possible freedom for change in the future.
    2. Maximum efficiency - maximum effect with minimum effort.

    Other considerations suffer - emotional impact on people, on myself, security, etc.

    I can imagine it's the same for other types and imagine their decisions based on their first functions.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Owfin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    A decision made based predominantly on the Si preference while making compromises with the other preferences.

    For example most of my decisions are done so they:
    1. Ensure the maximum possible freedom for change in the future.
    2. Maximum efficiency - maximum effect with minimum effort.

    Other considerations suffer - emotional impact on people, on myself, security, etc.

    I can imagine it's the same for other types and imagine their decisions based on their first functions.
    Oh, I see now.

    To integrate Si into your thinking, you could consider Si in the context of Ne-ti. Like, you can't travel all over the world if you spent all your money on chocolate.
    I don't see any invisible treasure chests.

    • MBTI? ISTJ
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owfin View Post
    Oh, I see now.

    To integrate Si into your thinking, you could consider Si in the context of Ne-ti. Like, you can't travel all over the world if you spent all your money on chocolate.
    What leads you to say that?

    Perhaps there is a way to travel around the world without money or eat chocolate without money or travel while eating chocolate. In my mind there is no doubt it's possible even if I don't know how to right now or I don't know the possible opportunity cost which might be prohibitive (like giving up family to start a career as a chocolate sales representative for Asia). I have faith it's possible and faith I will find a solution if I look into it.

    An ISTJ told me something similar regarding his schedule while on vacation. He said I would try to do everything I could think of while he prioritized and did only a fraction of what I "saw" as possible to do.

    You see how different the outlook on tasks is? Because of this and because Si is my Anima (and Ne yours) I ask you to attempt to explain and pinpoint the "knot" in your mind which gives you this knowledge of what is possible, what not and hence what needs to be done. The internal process and the convictions that lead you as an ISTJ.

    Is it based on previous experience (as Si descriptions would suggest)?

    I am giving you my Ne-Ti POV hoping it might be helpful to establish some common ground for communication so we understand what the other means (on the inside of our heads).

    I read somewhere that Ti realizes words are metaphors for internal processes that can't be shown to others and seeks maximum precision in words to maximize the commonalities in the used metaphors. Based on INTP posts I can tell this way of speaking is troublesome to read and hope the topic sparks your interest (my Fe speaking .

    Type theory is fun!


    EDIT: A better example for Ne-Ti: I take a gulp of water and look at the label and it says: "Spring water". I am used to seeing "Mineral water". This is what Si looks like from as a fourth (semiconscious. After 50 years ... I am 30) to Ne-Ti (me):
    Memory of looking upwards toward a hill and bungalows on top. And a spring there and me being very thirsty but also realizing there is a lot of logic in the idea of fecal waters going downwards and mixing with the natural water flow fed by the vast forests in the mountains (more expensive land to use so we don't bother and call it reserve . Kind of that emotion. Why the fuck am I drinking "Spring water" instead of real mineral water that went deep, got mixed with the rocks under high temperature which destroyed anything organic. Life ... in a five-minute break of Ne-Ti. Tiring. I guess that's why they say the fourth anchors our first so it doesn't go unchecked all the time
    Last edited by Istbkleta; 01-06-2012 at 09:51 PM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Owfin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    What leads you to say that?

    Perhaps there is a way to travel around the world without money or eat chocolate without money or travel while eating chocolate. In my mind there is no doubt it's possible even if I don't know how to right now or I don't know the possible opportunity cost which might be prohibitive (like giving up family to start a career as a chocolate sales representative for Asia). I have faith it's possible and faith I will find a solution if I look into it.

    An ISTJ told me something similar regarding his schedule while on vacation. He said I would try to do everything I could think of while he prioritized and did only a fraction of what I "saw" as possible to do.

    You see how different the outlook on tasks is? Because of this and because Si is my Anima (and Ne yours) I ask you to attempt to explain and pinpoint the "knot" in your mind which gives you this knowledge of what is possible, what not and hence what needs to be done. The internal process and the convictions that lead you as an ISTJ.

    Is it based on previous experience (as Si descriptions would suggest)?

    I am giving you my Ne-Ti POV hoping it might be helpful to establish some common ground for communication so we understand what the other means (on the inside of our heads).

    I read somewhere that Ti realizes words are metaphors for internal processes that can't be shown to others and seeks maximum precision in words to maximize the commonalities in the used metaphors. Based on INTP posts I can tell this way of speaking is troublesome to read and hope the topic sparks your interest (my Fe speaking .

    Type theory is fun!
    For your first question, I was just trying to come up with an example.

    But for the main question, I can be aware that there could be a lot of ways to travel when you are broke in this situation, but unless I was deliberately brainstorming them, I wouldn't focus on it. I guess I narrow it down by isolating the highest probabilities/plausibilities and leaving out the others (This is probably Te-Fi). Narrowing down and selecting probabilities to inspect seems like Ne being filtered through Te and Fi. I make it seem like Si will come in fairly late, but the previous narrowing down doesn't take very long at all. When I'm narrowing down probabilities, I often feel like I'm mentally herding and thrusting them in "no way" pens and "perfect!" corrals and stuff in between, like the "maybe I'll consider this for later" cabinet at lighting speed. I usually have some sort of criteria tailored to the situation and a little pinch of gut feeling too, and this gets rid of ones not really worth considering seriously. After this, I dip into a little more Si-involved examination of them. Now I look at them more like ideas to investigate instead of data to be filtered through. I evaluate and compare them with other ideas. There is still a sense of sorting, but it instead of checking off points from a generic list, I'm checking the unique points of the ideas.

    But the fun really starts when I have narrowed it down to one idea (I often technically narrow it down to more, but if they aren't a "unit" of thought, they are mentally cleaved and are independent concepts). Now I dive deep down and I examine them not as something to put a rubber stamp of validity on, but as a idea, not colored by trying to prove it. My drive is not to find new ideas, but to dive into ideas so wonderful and so beautiful that I can stay and observe and find new layers and connections and just... burrow my mind in. Of course, I have other drives too, but I have a natural inclination towards diving into thoughts. I try to figure out the world from what I have found. On on hand, I don't objectively see the world as it is (though, does anybody?), but only my idea of it. On the other hand, it can go much more in depth.
    I don't see any invisible treasure chests.

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  5. #15
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    tell me some about the magic in Si.

    i know it is tangled up in the magic in Ne.

  6. #16
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    How do you use Si and Ne together (dual functions)?

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  7. #17
    Senior Member Owfin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    tell me some about the magic in Si.

    i know it is tangled up in the magic in Ne.
    Finding new layers and relating different parts of a concept together. I love elegance. Te might tell me "It doesn't matter if it's elegant if it isn't real", but I nevertheless have a fondness of it. When I look into the core of an idea and I find elegance, that is magical and delightful. I feel sometimes as though my thoughts are a coral reef that I dive into, with life in every niche.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    How do you use Si and Ne together (dual functions)?
    Ne seems to be when I notice things. I notice possibilities or opportunities. After they get filtered through Te and Fi, Si is when I analyze and go into what's already there in my mind. Kind of like unpacking a box.
    I don't see any invisible treasure chests.

    • MBTI? ISTJ
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owfin View Post
    Finding new layers and relating different parts of a concept together. I love elegance. Te might tell me "It doesn't matter if it's elegant if it isn't real", but I nevertheless have a fondness of it. When I look into the core of an idea and I find elegance, that is magical and delightful. I feel sometimes as though my thoughts are a coral reef that I dive into, with life in every niche.
    beautiful.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    What is the difference between Ni and Si in your opinion?

  10. #20
    Senior Member Owfin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    What is the difference between Ni and Si in your opinion?
    Ni seems to create a future concept of how they want things to be and look into it with the same conviction I would to a concept that is existing. They seem to say "Oh, I want a treehouse" and then once they have an idea of a treehouse, they can start waxing on the feeling of being in a treehouse. It seems a bit strange to me. They see what they are working towards as the "big picture". It doesn't seem to be bigger or smaller than my own picture, but where I consider understanding my own current information to be crucial, they consider it essential to understand their prediction of the future. To me it seems like a bit of a waste of effort, because the future is unreliable. Below I put my idea of a argument between very disagreeable versions of them (I apologize if I make it seem like Ni is worse or has worse arguments- it's just that I can create reasonable Si arguments much more easily than Ni ones because I am familiar with a Si line of reasoning):

    Si: "How do you know what a treehouse is like?"
    Ni: "I know what my treehouse is going to be like."
    Si: "But how? You've never been in a treehouse."
    Ni: "Well my idea of a treehouse has me feeling like X"
    Si: "That doesn't make it true."
    Ni: "Is your motto 'prove it' or something?"
    Si: "No, I'm not saying that, I'm saying that you can't make observations about events that haven't happened."
    Ni: "You can predict."
    Si: "But you are talking about the future like it actually exists right now!"
    Ni: "You are so stuck in the past!"
    Si: "You think that the future is going to be one way just because you think it is!"
    Ni:
    Si:
    I don't see any invisible treasure chests.

    • MBTI? ISTJ
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