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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
    Hi Junior,

    As a dutyfulfiller, an ISTJ can feel like he obligated to stay within a relationship, he actually should get out of. Once he makes that decision he can be very stubborn and stick with this decision, I know this from my own experience. Thing is it is hard for us to communicate our feelings and level with extraverts like you. One thing that could work is writing down your feelings and hopes and ask him to reply on that.
    Trust me, that poor boy has read many letters from me. I love to write, and he pays close attention to them as he will often quote from them later. He is perfectly aware of my feelings, except that he was afraid that I was fickle and not solid in my feelings. That was true. I was trying to decide how I felt about him and someone from my past. I inadvertently used jealousy to try and push him to step up to the plate, but it only created more insecurity for him. He said at one point he was hurt because he felt like a pawn. Both of them were stalling at indecision central. I was just being honest, but it backfired. I want him to care about me for the right reasons, out of love and not out of fear.

    We had a great week together. He makes a point to now say hello, smile warmly, and make good eye contact the moment that we both meet each day and lots of eye contact at other times (He asked me recently if I was trying to "catch his eye" because we have this deep soulful looks that communicate everything on our minds...I said no {because it was just natural to look at him}, and I asked him if he was...after a very long pause of about a minute he said, "no"). Before, when he was trying to keep his distance he wouldn't look at me. Now he is much more relaxed and has made sure that we work together on assignments pretty much every day this week instead of putting me with someone else like he used to do when he had his walls up.

    Funny thing is being so in tune with each other I know he is getting closer and closer. I see his resolve melting away and his confidence building. One of my male friends who is an ESTJ suggested I say, "Do you have any idea what being near you does to me?" It's true. He does turn me into jello. If I can just keep my mouth shut I know he will come around, it's just SOOO hard for an ENFP to keep her feelings inside. I feel like I'm going to explode. I want to sing from the rooftops.

  2. #12
    Member Dizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPARKles View Post
    Trust me, that poor boy has read many letters from me. I love to write, and he pays close attention to them as he will often quote from them later. He is perfectly aware of my feelings, except that he was afraid that I was fickle and not solid in my feelings. That was true. I was trying to decide how I felt about him and someone from my past. I inadvertently used jealousy to try and push him to step up to the plate, but it only created more insecurity for him. He said at one point he was hurt because he felt like a pawn. Both of them were stalling at indecision central. I was just being honest, but it backfired. I want him to care about me for the right reasons, out of love and not out of fear.

    We had a great week together. He makes a point to now say hello, smile warmly, and make good eye contact the moment that we both meet each day and lots of eye contact at other times (He asked me recently if I was trying to "catch his eye" because we have this deep soulful looks that communicate everything on our minds...I said no {because it was just natural to look at him}, and I asked him if he was...after a very long pause of about a minute he said, "no"). Before, when he was trying to keep his distance he wouldn't look at me. Now he is much more relaxed and has made sure that we work together on assignments pretty much every day this week instead of putting me with someone else like he used to do when he had his walls up.

    Funny thing is being so in tune with each other I know he is getting closer and closer. I see his resolve melting away and his confidence building. One of my male friends who is an ESTJ suggested I say, "Do you have any idea what being near you does to me?" It's true. He does turn me into jello. If I can just keep my mouth shut I know he will come around, it's just SOOO hard for an ENFP to keep her feelings inside. I feel like I'm going to explode. I want to sing from the rooftops.

    So what does that has to do with my advice ???

  3. #13
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    Dizzy,

    I agree with you about writing the feelings down, and also the 'being stubborn and sticking with a decision' even he repeated questioned. Sometimes a little bit of input from others beings clarity to the surface. Sometimes just discerning my own feelings are difficult. I just was able to see that is how he WAS compared to how he's acting now. He also told me a few weeks ago that he's been having a complete turn-around in his feelings about me. He often uses the phrase, "It's only been a month...it's only been a few months...". He also told me I was right about my intuition that it was only a matter of time before he is ready. How do I get him to be comfortable enough to begin again sooner and quit stalling?

  4. #14
    Member Dizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPARKles View Post
    Dizzy,

    I agree with you about writing the feelings down, and also the 'being stubborn and sticking with a decision' even he repeated questioned. Sometimes a little bit of input from others beings clarity to the surface. Sometimes just discerning my own feelings are difficult. I just was able to see that is how he WAS compared to how he's acting now. He also told me a few weeks ago that he's been having a complete turn-around in his feelings about me. He often uses the phrase, "It's only been a month...it's only been a few months...". He also told me I was right about my intuition that it was only a matter of time before he is ready. How do I get him to be comfortable enough to begin again sooner and quit stalling?
    I think you need to take a step back. It's time that he realizes what he misses and the only way to do that is by attaining some distance.
    I'm afraid that you push it too much. I could get agitated when people do that and block them all together. You have to show some strength, that's far more attractive than being just overwelmed.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
    I'm afraid that you push it too much. I could get agitated when people do that and block them all together. You have to show some strength, that's far more attractive than being just overwelmed.
    I agree with you that that is definitely what I did, much to my schgrin when it backfired. Ever since I have mellowed out, let him come to me, and just been polite and casual I've seen a complete change in him. It's good to be reminded, though, as it takes a lot of work for an ENFP not to get overly excited and enthusiastic about life and all its possibilities. We often need a reality check that we are being overwhelming/smothering. Part of the zest of life that attracts people to us also is draining to others without a similar temperment.

    I have been married before. I am much calmer and at peace when I have the security of the loyal committment. That's what makes him so attractive in part is that I know he will be fiercely loyal unlike my last mate. He told me once that if we end up together I will never want for reassurance from him.

    Thanks for the reminder. It's a good one. I often think of myself as a horse that needs reins.

  6. #16
    Senior Member ArbiterDewey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPARKles View Post
    I agree with you that that is definitely what I did, much to my schgrin when it backfired. Ever since I have mellowed out, let him come to me, and just been polite and casual I've seen a complete change in him. It's good to be reminded, though, as it takes a lot of work for an ENFP not to get overly excited and enthusiastic about life and all its possibilities. We often need a reality check that we are being overwhelming/smothering. Part of the zest of life that attracts people to us also is draining to others without a similar temperment.

    I have been married before. I am much calmer and at peace when I have the security of the loyal committment. That's what makes him so attractive in part is that I know he will be fiercely loyal unlike my last mate. He told me once that if we end up together I will never want for reassurance from him.

    Thanks for the reminder. It's a good one. I often think of myself as a horse that needs reins.
    ISTJ=Reins

    Allowing an ISTJ to come to a conclusion himself and not be forced into one is definitely the better choice. Try not to pressure him into things, and if he seems pressured allow one night's rest before inquiring about it or any decision that is creating the stress/indecision.

    We're not that complicated, we just like to thoroughly toss around an idea in our heads before coming to a solid conclusion. Otherwise, we fight change as adamantly as children fighting sleep .

    You can be emotionally expressive, just not so much as to freak out an ISTJ. Excitement can drain us, especially if it lasts awhile in our presence.

    Good luck, btw.
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
    --Isaac Asimov, Salvor Hardin in "Foundation"

    Nothing is worse than active ignorance.
    --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
    --Isaac Asimov

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArbiterDewey View Post
    ISTJ=Reins

    Allowing an ISTJ to come to a conclusion himself and not be forced into one is definitely the better choice. Try not to pressure him into things, and if he seems pressured allow one night's rest before inquiring about it or any decision that is creating the stress/indecision.

    We're not that complicated, we just like to thoroughly toss around an idea in our heads before coming to a solid conclusion. Otherwise, we fight change as adamantly as children fighting sleep .

    You can be emotionally expressive, just not so much as to freak out an ISTJ. Excitement can drain us, especially if it lasts awhile in our presence.

    Good luck, btw.
    We agree to agree , goodluck Sparkles

  8. #18
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MEC View Post
    T and F don't work romanicly,he will only break your heart
    What? So all these couples where one's a T and the other's an F don't love eachother? My grandparents who loved eachother from the time they were in their early twenties till now and one was a T and an F didn't work I guess I should listen to you, you must be right because I see no proof of your statement, and that must make it right.My mom and dad must not love each other despite being married 24 years.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    What? So all these couples where one's a T and the other's an F don't love eachother? My grandparents who loved eachother from the time they were in their early twenties till now and one was a T and an F didn't work I guess I should listen to you, you must be right because I see no proof of your statement, and that must make it right.My mom and dad must not love each other despite being married 24 years.
    From my experience I found T tactless and F senisitive not a good combo.There are exceptions,obviously your's are very loving and forgiving couples.

  10. #20
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    The ISTJ's gave great advice for dating an SJ. My ISFJ boyfriend operates pretty much the same way. As an NF, it can be difficult NOT to push and MAKE it work out, but it's really the worst thing you can do.

    I have the habit of killing a dead horse, so to say. I keep going and going and going until I reach the "perfect" resolution, ultimately driving the other person insane. In my relationship, we have a couple things we don't necessarily see eye to eye on &, well, we're both fairly stubborn people. At first, I'd just keep bringing up the issue - pushing it with good intentions so "everything will be better". Now, I simply state my point/feelings/whatever & consistently stand my ground without pushing the issue. It works MUCH better.

    My boyfriend also has the SJ control issue, along with the stubbornness. The more submissive I was towards his "control", the less I got what I needed and honestly? The less he respected me. Now, I just set my limits. If he goes too far, I hang up the phone or leave his house. I find simply not giving him the "please love me & i'll do what you want to make you not mad anymore" reaction works wonders too - I only really react to the positive things now & I'll either make a joke or not react to the negative behavior. I was amazed at how much that turned him around & how much more respect I got in return. Note that I don't get hysterical & FORCE him to respect my opinions - it's more like if we disagree about something, I say how I feel and then leave it be. Usually after he thinks things through by himself, he comes around if I have a valid reason or point about the problem (and more importantly, if I stay calm!). If I get hysterical or push my point too forcefully, I WILL get a negative reaction from him - usually along the lines of him taking a very stubborn, almost irrationally stubborn, stance on the issue & refusal to compromise. I will also get the same bullheadedness if I relentlessly try to convince him that my point of view is right - I had to learn that mine may not be right & that he needs time to see my point of view and come to his own conclusion.

    I guess the day to day stuff goes like this... say I want to stay over one night & he wants the night to himself. If I push the issue of staying over, I guarantee it'll annoy the crap out of him - even if he wants me there! If I respect his space, then like clockwork, he'll call me up within the hour and ask me to stay the night.

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