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  1. #101
    Senior Member alexx's Avatar
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    Not really - I just tease you Dave because you are an easy target and I know you don't take it personally. As for ISTJ's in general? ALIENS! All of you!

    89% Extroverted ~ 68% Intuition ~ 84% Feeling ~ 89% Perceiving
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    Sanguine | Phlegmatic
    Right Brain Dominant

  2. #102
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    How am I an easy target? ...And how do you know I do not take it personally? =( I could be a sensitive ISTJ Alexx.

    ...And only some of us are aliens!
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #103
    Senior Member hermeticdancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quietgirl View Post

    My boyfriend also has the SJ control issue, along with the stubbornness. The more submissive I was towards his "control", the less I got what I needed and honestly? The less he respected me. Now, I just set my limits. If he goes too far, I hang up the phone or leave his house. I find simply not giving him the "please love me & i'll do what you want to make you not mad anymore" reaction works wonders too - I only really react to the positive things now & I'll either make a joke or not react to the negative behavior. I was amazed at how much that turned him around & how much more respect I got in return. Note that I don't get hysterical & FORCE him to respect my opinions - it's more like if we disagree about something, I say how I feel and then leave it be. Usually after he thinks things through by himself, he comes around if I have a valid reason or point about the problem (and more importantly, if I stay calm!). If I get hysterical or push my point too forcefully, I WILL get a negative reaction from him - usually along the lines of him taking a very stubborn, almost irrationally stubborn, stance on the issue & refusal to compromise. I will also get the same bullheadedness if I relentlessly try to convince him that my point of view is right - I had to learn that mine may not be right & that he needs time to see my point of view and come to his own conclusion.

    I guess the day to day stuff goes like this... say I want to stay over one night & he wants the night to himself. If I push the issue of staying over, I guarantee it'll annoy the crap out of him - even if he wants me there! If I respect his space, then like clockwork, he'll call me up within the hour and ask me to stay the night.
    I agree with the post above and I would add:

    Advice for ENFP's:

    Be loving, caring and compassionate
    Be decisive, work on being assertive, but not bossy. Indecisiveness is not attractive.
    Be on time
    Keep your promises
    Say what you want, don't be afraid to have opinions.
    Stand up for yourself, and others
    Be positive
    Maintain your integrity and trustworthiness.
    Be affectionate
    Work hard, and be passionate about life, try to focus on the positive
    Don't focus all your energy on the relationship
    Be open to change and listen to the ISTJ
    Let the ISTJ give you advice and instruction on things they know
    Ask them for help
    Dont interrupt-shows you care
    Listen- shows you care
    Answer questions directly- shows you care

    all these things, show you care, and shows that you understand your partner. It will cut down on communication problems and frustration.
    Styles are different, ENFP is cosmos, ISTJ is the ground.
    NF don't get too hurt by the ISTJ, because they just as easily get frustrated and maddened.
    you are not alone! lol....






    Both people say what they want
    Both people honor and respect each others personal space and boundaries
    Both people honor and respect each others needs and wants
    Both people compromise and flex
    Both people communicate in honest, simple easy to understand language
    accept each other, don't try to change the other person

  4. #104
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermeticdancer View Post
    I agree with the post above and I would add:

    Advice for ENFP's:

    Be loving, caring and compassionate Yes.
    Be decisive, work on being assertive, but not bossy. Indecisiveness is not attractive. AMEN!
    Be on time Yes.
    Keep your promises [b]Yes.[b]
    Say what you want, don't be afraid to have opinions. Yes.
    Stand up for yourself, and others
    Be positive Yes.
    Maintain your integrity and trustworthiness. Yes.
    Be affectionate When necessary, no PDA
    Work hard, and be passionate about life, try to focus on the positive Be positive, but be realistic.
    Don't focus all your energy on the relationship I have no idea what this means. So I'm going to put: N/A
    Be open to change and listen to the ISTJ ISTJ's HATE change!
    Let the ISTJ give you advice and instruction on things they know
    ^Yes, but don't just nod your head "yes" if you really don't understand what we are saying. Be real.
    Ask them for help YES!
    Dont interrupt-shows you care You can interrupt if we're rambling and don't know what we are saying.
    Listen- shows you care Yes.
    Answer questions directly- shows you care Directly? Well, don't play head games. Use the simplest language you can.

    all these things, show you care, and shows that you understand your partner. It will cut down on communication problems and frustration.
    Styles are different, ENFP is cosmos, ISTJ is the ground.
    NF don't get too hurt by the ISTJ, because they just as easily get frustrated and maddened.
    you are not alone! lol....





    Both people say what they want
    Both people honor and respect each others personal space and boundaries
    Both people honor and respect each others needs and wants
    Both people compromise and flex
    Both people communicate in honest, simple easy to understand language
    accept each other, don't try to change the other person
    (Answers in bold.)
    You get a 80% on the ISTJ test. Good enough for me! =D

    Next ENFP?...
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #105
    Senior Member hermeticdancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    It's weird, I find myself as an ENFP that i NEED an ISTJ. Everything about them just balance me out where i know I am lacking.. but I feel like ISTJs dont NEED ENFPs because they are fine with how they are and think they dont need any help.
    Do you really?


    You just feel like your emotional needs haven't been met by the ISTJ. That is why you need them. Because they are not being met, by this type. You are stating the obvious, here.

    For the ISTJ, their practical stable needs are not being met...
    I think it would clear things up for you if you would realize, or accept that perhaps the ISTJ, does not really want to know about you that much, you inner ideas, the world of possibilities... what if...they are content with who they are, and they don't want someone to help them grow develop as a person with (your) insight and conversation, knowledge about life after a while.
    They don't need you to be their motivational speaker.

    Doesn't that squash your spirit? Leave you feeling stifled? Are you a creative idealist, that wants to speculate about and maybe realize her dreams and express her passions and ever changing ideas with someone you care about? Don't you want feedback, and maybe even someone who believes in you and thinks you are amazing. Yet will challenge you to be better, and give you support, stability and encouragement. (that takes a person who understands you...)

    You feel like ISTJ's may want you, for these qualities, but they don't. It's not these prized ones that make you UNIQUE that they are after...I think you are confused. And you are projecting your needs onto them, and what you think they want.


    Go with someone more compatible, please... whatever the type, just be yourself, don't anguish, or obsess. You miss the chance of being with someone who can actually help realize you...bring out your inner person and love you for who you are...
    The ISTJ, in most cases cant do this...without forcing him or herself. You can make it work if you...
    accept them (really hard to do) change yourself a lot to accommodate them... and how many people want to change a lot and except reality?
    But change into what is the question... I don't think it's the right change for me, but that is for you to decide...
    Likes Brujx liked this post

  6. #106
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermeticdancer View Post
    Do you really?


    You just feel like your emotional needs haven't been met by the ISTJ. That is why you need them. Because they are not being met, by this type. You are stating the obvious, here.

    For the ISTJ, the practical stable needs are not being met...
    I think it would clear things up for you if you would realize, that perhaps the ISTJ, does not really want to know about you that much, you inner ideas, the world of possibilities... or that they are content with who they are, and they don't want someone to help them grow develop as a person with (your) insight and conversation, knowledge about life.

    Doesn't that squash your spirit? Leave you feeling stifled? Are you a creative idealist, that wants to speculate about and maybe realize her dreams and express her passions and ever changing ideas with someone you care about? Don't you want feedback, and maybe even someone who believes in you and thinks you are amazing.

    You feel like they need this, but they don't. I think you are confused. And you are projecting your needs onto them, and what you think they want.
    Being a classic idealist...

    Go with someone more compatible, please... whatever the type, just be yourself, don't anguish, or obsess. You miss the chance of being with someone who can actually help realize you...bring out your inner person and love you for who you are...
    The ISTJ, in most cases cant do this...without forcing him or herself,
    they are mature, or unless you change a lot to accommodate them... and do you really want to change.
    to be honest, there's a lot of assuming in your response. I'm not really feeling like I want or need the ISTJ to share in my feelings, dreams, and ideals, because he does. He always wants to know how I feel about things, why I feel that way, and how I can help attain whatever goals I have placed in my heart. He isn't neglectful in that way, the only thing that bothers me in that topic is that he doesn't participate in the daydreams of what I am thinking, he just automatically goes into Te mode: OK, you want to do this? Great! Get started!

    What I feel like I need from the ISTJ is what I am getting (and loving!) is the stability, groundedness, maturity, realistic perspective in life. I appreciate the differences and use them to my advantage, (...now, no disrespect to ISTJS...) but I feel like the ISTJ does not want to learn to be open minded, try new things and experiences, learn to be spontaneous, explore theories that may help them in life. Even though, I feel that for my ISTJ, he does most certainly need to at least dab into these characteristics. In now way am I asking him to become an ENFP, I am just asking him to appreciate the differences and maybe have a need/want to become more well-rounded.

    I do realize me, I embrace who I am, but i am also aware of where I am lacking, and I love that the ISTJ wants to help me be a better me, all i wish was that my ISTJ needed/wanted to be a better him.

    Does that make sense?

  7. #107
    Senior Member hermeticdancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post

    What I feel like I need from the ISTJ is what I am getting (and loving!) is the stability, groundedness, maturity, realistic perspective in life. I appreciate the differences and use them to my advantage, (...now, no disrespect to ISTJS...) but I feel like the ISTJ does not want to learn to be open minded, try new things and experiences, learn to be spontaneous, explore theories that may help them in life. Even though, I feel that for my ISTJ, he does most certainly need to at least dab into these characteristics. In now way am I asking him to become an ENFP, I am just asking him to appreciate the differences and maybe have a need/want to become more well-rounded.

    I do realize me, I embrace who I am, but i am also aware of where I am lacking, and I love that the ISTJ wants to help me be a better me, all i wish was that my ISTJ needed/wanted to be a better him.

    Does that make sense?
    It makes sense. I apologize for projecting onto you, my own ideas.
    It sound like you want him to be more open to your ideas then his inner reality. You want feed back, and reciprocity for the hard work you are putting into the relationship, and want him to care about working on himself. He sounds like he needs to flex more, because you are the one that is flexing and accommodating. You are the flexible and open one, so naturally your are going to feel shorted in this way... It's happened to me.

    Just tell him how you feel. And what you want. That's all you can do...
    (any other suggestions)?

    I have a theory...

    ISTJ's are good at and want to "fix" things-objects
    ENFPs are good at and want to "fix" people-relationships

    therefor

    The ISTJ will be focused on fixing things, i.e. what is perceived to be an organized inner reality based thought process, through informing the ENFP of what they know, which is their perception of reality, facts, data, reminders, suggestions, opinions, experiences, in a directive fashion...while the ENFP will be focused on informing, in an abstract witty fashion, but sometimes dramatic and serious, ideas between relationships, and how to make things better, including ways of relating, fixing themselves, and wanting to fix the relationship itself.

  8. #108
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    So, it seems this thread kind of died out about a month ago and after reading through a majority of the posts, I'm feeling somewhat better and worse about where I am at right now! I'm hoping someone out there is still reading these messages and will take pity on me and offer some insight as to what to do now!

    My situation: I met a really great guy about 5 weeks ago who I'm almost positive is an ISTJ (not 100% sure, but it seems highly likely). We met through mutual friends at a birthday outting, then proceeded to see each other every day for the next 5 days. Unfortunately, the month prior to meeting him, I'd gotten pretty burned by the guy I had been seeing (wasn't anything long-term, but we were just starting to get serious when I found out that he was actually living with his girlfriend (whom he said he had broken up with previously) - was long distance, so I had no idea!), and had literally just decided the day that I met this new guy to take a break from dating. The 5 days that we'd spent hanging out together (not 24/7...just saw each other at some point over those 5 days - first kiss happened on day 5, although he tried for it on day 4, but I accidentally turned my cheek not knowing he was going in for a kiss instead of our usual hug goodbye! Oops!!) were fantastic, but I still had this "deer in the headlights" feeling when our mutual friends started asking questions about whether or not I liked him. So, I decided on day 6 (the first day we didn't actually see each other) to tell him "I'm really reluctant/nervous about getting involved right now....I'd decided to take a break from dating and then we started hanging out, so I'm not sure what to do. I really like you, and I've been having a lot of fun hanging out with you...just difficult, too, because I'm overly analytical." I've been regretting my words ever since, because I think I set things back A LOT, and I really just needed a little more time to feel secure with him, which by two weeks into it, I was feeling absolutely great about things. We've still been seeing each other the past couple of weeks, but at a much more leisurely pace (maybe 1-3 times/wk), but I really, really miss seeing him more frequently like we did in the beginning. I've tried letting him know that I'm feeling comfortable about things with him, and I know he's referred to me as his "girlfriend" to other people (though never actually around me), but I don't know how to broach the subject of spending more time with him. He seems content with the 1-3 times/wk, but it's kind of driving me nuts! When I like someone, I like to be with him! It's especially hard for me, because he's also not big on talking on the phone, so when we don't see each other, it's mostly just a few text messages exchanged or a brief phone call.

    Now, how do I let him know that I am good/comfortable/happy with our relationship? Even though I really, really like the boy, his emotional coolness makes it difficult for me to express things, and then when I do express things, I feel silly for having said anything. For instance, we were both out of town last week at various overlapping points and ended up not seeing each other at all for a full week. I wrote him a short note that said something like, "I miss you. While it's not a "great" feeling, it is a good feeling, because it makes me realize how much I enjoy being with you. The irony, of course, is that by the time you read this I won't be missing you anymore, because you'll be with me." His response after reading it was, "you're sweet" and then we just moved on...not an "I missed you, too," which I guess is what I was hoping to hear.

    Oh, and our mutual friend has also told me that he (my ISTJ) had not dated anyone in over 1.5 years before I met him and had previously said that he thought relationships were just too much work most of the time because women just ended up "crazy"...or something to that affect. So, now I feel like there's an added pressure to play it especially cool with him, though 1) that's tough for me, because when I like someone and am happy, I like to express it, and 2) I'm afraid that if I play it too cool, he'll think that I've gotten cold feet and reverted to my original uncertainty with things.

    Sorry for the rather lengthy message!! Thanks for reading and any thoughts you can provide!
    Last edited by EllieBeth; 02-18-2010 at 02:15 AM. Reason: Accidentally posted before I finished writing!

  9. #109
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Just let him know what you need from him. He'll never need the intensity or depth of communication that you will, that's just part of the package that you'll either appreciate or find difficult to deal with. Don't get down about it yet though.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  10. #110
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    Just let him know what you need from him. He'll never need the intensity or depth of communication that you will, that's just part of the package that you'll either appreciate or find difficult to deal with. Don't get down about it yet though.

    EllieBeth:

    What ENFPer said, AND

    If the guy tried to kiss you, then he has some attraction to you. Not sure if his behaviour is ISTJ, but moreso your average "T" guy.

    How old are both of you?

    Oh, and our mutual friend has also told me that he (my ISTJ) had not dated anyone in over 1.5 years before I met him and had previously said that he thought relationships were just too much work most of the time because women just ended up "crazy"...or something to that affect. So, now I feel like there's an added pressure to play it especially cool with him, though 1) that's tough for me, because when I like someone and am happy, I like to express it, and 2) I'm afraid that if I play it too cool, he'll think that I've gotten cold feet and reverted to my original uncertainty with things.
    PLEASE be yourself. The guy will either get used to it, or be annoyed and you'll know before you get too involved that he's not for you. It will eventually reveal itself, so why not do it now?

    The guy may not be pouring out with emotional expression, but I think he likes to hear how you feel.

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