Plus, I can provide more compelling evidence, if you so wish.
My point in this thread is to only say that if approximately 50% of the world is SJ, probability would suggest one of your parents is an SJ.
Ergo, why would it be necessarily strange to have an SJ parent?
For the record, I do agree that ESTJ's and ESFJ's get branded with inaccurate stereotypes ALL THE TIME! You know what those stereotypes are so it's not necessary for me to reiterate.
It's only because there are so many more iNtuitors than Sensors in my life. I know a grand total of one or two ESTJs personally, maybe three ESFJs? But SO many more NFs and NTs!! And I realize that there must be something about my personal experience that allows for that, but I just have a really hard time with sketchy statistics that contradict my experience. The flaws I pointed out -- i.e. that I'm not sure how representative workplace statistics from 1998 can be -- still stand objectively, even if my motivation isn't all that objective.
There is one member on this forum who recently was determinedly typing herself as INFJ while everyone told her she was ESTP. Odd, that. I still think she may have been having fun watching us all trying to convince her that, if nothing else, the last type she's likely to be is INFJ.
Maybe she was. We don't know now, do we? I still don't know if she's serious or not
In the case of the original premise of this thread - of course in most cases we don't know if it's just the child tying the mom as ESFJ, or if others have also typed her as such, or if any of the other people involved have any interest in MBTI...etc.
To me it seems like a which came first, the chicken or the egg? type of deal. Are moms really ESFJs or do children type their mom as ESFJ because she acts like a mom?
But particularly when ESFJ and ESTJ are the two types most often singled out for hatred and rampant stereotyping...it does all make me wonder.
It's funny, I wonder why I should care so much about this. To be very honest, I have had a few unfortunate experiences of various kinds with ESFJs and ESTJs IRL (though I think I've also had good experiences - I definitely have lots of SJ friends). But all the generalising that tends to go on annoys me.
Yes, it's quite suspicious.
It reminds me of how I feel when I hear Europeans bashing Americans, which happens a great deal over here. I end up defending the Americans, a lot. And I'm Canadian.
Hahaha maybe because it seems overdone to you. What do they say when you do that? Do they ever change their mind?
Off-topic, but still kind of related: I once had my co-workers take Keirsey's test and three of them came up as ESFJ. They were all EXTREMELY different and I never would have guessed them as the same type. After thinking about their results, I could see why they typed that way, but I never would have guessed. So, type is only a tool, not an absolute definition of a person. Preferences, percentages of preferences, and perception--more art than science.
“That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe
reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga
As for the percentage of SJs & Ss out there in general, I don't think the statistics are that off. The tests & profiles seem N-biased actually, and they end to catch the interest of Ns more. This should slant statistics in favor of MORE Ns, not less, but yet, it doesn't. Even in these communities, more people seem to mistype N and then later change to S (once they get past unfair stereotypes) than vice versa.
I think one issue is people do often type others in relation to themselves. If I see myself as a grounded, structured SJ type, then I might view every who is not as grounded & structured as me as daydreamy, silly NFP or something. If I see myself as a visionary and offbeat NP type, then anyone who is less so can't possibly be an NP like me. It's an easy pitfall, and why I think many people feel they have not encountered their own type much IRL (no one is as X as they are, so they can't be the same type).
"Charlotte sometimes dreams a wall around herself. But it's always with love - So much love it looks like everything else. Charlotte Sometimes - So far away, glass sealed and pretty." - The Cure
Seriously, I know this is turning into a bit of a hangup for me...but it just seems like I've read a truly disproportionate number of descriptions of ESFJ moms (ie. when people list the types of family members, etc). Dads, brothers and sisters can be pretty much any type at all. Moms are 99% ESFJ!
I have serious doubts about this. I mean, I'm sure there are plenty of ESFJ moms (quite a few people seem to have ISFJs too) but...I just can't believe there are that many. Other types of women reproduce. What also seems noteworthy is that a majority of people who talk about their relationship with their "ESFJ mom" will describe her as annoying, interfering, etc. Almost as though if you have a mom you don't get along with, she has to be ESFJ.
It just seems very much like a variant on the "all annoying/domineering bosses, dads and just people are ESTJs" trope. I think a lot of (particularly American, of a certain generation) women have been socialized to act very ESFJ - or else that's the default for "annoying mom" type. I remember reading in an Enneagram book that for women over 40, test results of 2 should be taken with a grain of salt because there will probably be a disproportionate and inaccurate number of these results. Very similar to the ESFJ thing, I think.
Thoughts? Or am I just a crank? For the record, my mom is probably an INTJ. She is definitely IxxJ and she is almost certainly not a Feeler.
i have noticed this too... without trying to encourage bias, i feel like this seems to be a rather teenage view of a parent - being meddling and overinterested, picky, emotional, and restrictive. i would have said this of both my parents when i was in high school, and they're certainly not both ESFJs.
anyway, my mother is truly ESFJ, i believe. she is outgoing (doesn't prefer to sit and self-reflect), detail-oriented and present-focused (doesn't prefer the abstract or big picture), interpersonally gifted (doesn't prefer hard logic), and decisive (doesn't prefer to leave things to chance). these are characteristics she has had all her life, not ones she developed to fill her "mom role". she is a teacher and handles our practical household matters - bills, groceries, vacation planning. dad is an INTP - her exact opposite in many ways. for the record, ESFJ mom and i get along fabulously.
i also think my maternal grandma is ISFJ, but i suspect paternal grandma of ISFPery.