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Thread: Does everyone REALLY have an ESFJ mom?

  1. #131
    Magical Array Firelie's Avatar
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    Apr 2008


    I'm pretty sure my mom's an ENFP, actually.

  2. #132
    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    5w6 sp/sx


    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I would love to see someone volunteer their grandmother as ISTP or ENTP or something like that. I think PB said one of her grandmas is INTJ, though.
    I did not know my grandmothers well enough to type them, and I'm sure my mother is ESFJ, but I know plenty of mothers who are not. My SO's mother is almost surely ISFP; I have women friends with adult children who are ISTJ, INFJ, and ENTJ; and one with younger kids who is ENFP. We on this thread are too small a sample to generalize from our responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Is there an argument that in the last few decades (like, since our moms and grandmothers) there are more T women than there used to be?

    It could make sense in some ways, but if MBTI is really nature rather than nurture, I don't think that should be the case.
    Maybe more women are testing as Ts because there is less pressure on them to internalize F behaviors. In any case, I would not be surprised if there was some sort of genetic selection over the ages resulting in the T/F gender difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I mean, do people think it's a real aberration for my mom to be INTJ? I'm almost getting that impression from some posts. And she did want kids. It was not forced upon her.
    In a way it is, since so few women are INTJ to begin with.
    Hope is the denial of reality. It is the carrot dangled before the draft horse to keep him plodding along in a vain attempt to reach it. We should remove the carrot and walk forward with our eyes open. -- Raistlin Majere

  3. #133
    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    4 sp/so


    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Yeah, I see what you mean about it supporting both our views.

    I think it leads me to contemplate whether MBTI is both nature and nurture, whereas I've always understood it was supposed to be pretty much purely nature.

    And if the circumstances/societal expectations/etc around someone have led them to act like an ESFJ and even consider themselves ESFJ...does that mean that really is what they are, or is their "real" type being "hidden" from them by environment or circumstances?
    First, let me state again that I am no expert. What follows is only my personal opinion. As far as nature vs. nurture, in any instance, I think it's just so much more complex than any of us can wrap our brains around. That's why we constantly search for a more simplified answer that ends up not really fitting the bill. But, I believe, it still can further our understanding even if it's not perfect. An analogy would be the weather. We can predict it to some degree, but not to perfection. Too many variables.

    With MBTI, I keep reminding myself that what's being predicted are preferences, not absolutes. MBTI is good at predicting those with strong preferences, IMO. I think nature wires us a certain way. Some of that wiring is fairly stable. For example, I strongly prefer introversion. Circumstances, upbringing, societal expectations, and practice on my part can change that to a degree, but in the end, I will need alone time to re-energize. However, some of that wiring is more malleable. If I was wired with a lesser preference for introversion, I might have more success with extraverting, but probably would still need some alone time to re-energize.

    On the other hand, there's not much difference between my preference of T or F. My upbringing made it clear that T was preferred to F for various reasons, so my T got more practice. Until I learned more, I thought I was a T. But my brain works in a more pattern-oriented fashion than a linear one, so I think I'm wired to prefer F.

    So, let's say society expects mothers to act as if they are ESFJ. Add to that that their mom raised them with the same expectations, and circumstances of parenthood force them to practice to be ESFJ. If they weren't initially wired ESFJ, and they don't have strong preferences, it's possible that, even to themselves, they will appear to be ESFJ. And possibly the initial wiring is malleable enough that they are ESFJ. I don't know if we know enough about the brain and how changeable it is or isn't to say for sure. But, then again, if the brain is that malleable, then after the societal pressure and parenthood expectations are over and done with (the kids grow up and leave home), then perhaps the stronger preferences will once again come to fore. (If I actually were T, maybe I would be saying this better. )

    I hope that made some sense and isn't just a big mess of mental vomit.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

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