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[SJ] SJs and artistic self-expression

EJCC

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The stereotype about SJs is that they don't care all that much about art, or individuality, or self-expression. If my life and perspective is any indication, then this stereotype is total BS.

I care a lot about self-expression. It may not be evident all the time, but I always remember that need as soon as I'm deprived of it. For example, I spent the whole summer living with my aunt, and when I realized that I wasn't allowed to personalize the room where I'd be living, I was frustrated to the point that I felt the need to rebel, and I started consciously leaving the room messy -- anything to prove that I had been there, that the place was mine.

^This isn't a side of SJs that people hear about.

Fellow SJs, what are your thoughts on individuality, and artistic expression, and how they relate to your aesthetics and how you live your life?
 

Giggly

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I definitely need a certain degree of freedom to express myself. It makes me feel balanced, grounded and in touch with my inner core.
 

FDG

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I absolutely don't think SJs are stereotypied as disliking physical or emotional expressions of creativity and art. Usually the stereotype is related to theoretical constructs, rather than personal or physical matters.
 

21%

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I know an ESFJ pianist, and she's the best performer/teacher I know (and I'm in the music business). Her music is special. It has a warmth that no one else's does. :)
 

King sns

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Not an SJ, but one of closest friends is a stereotypical ISTJ. She's really good with scrapbooking and cards. She just recently did her own weddings and made all the cards, favors, centerpieces, etc. herself. She's really skilled with coming up with these awesome things and following through. (I'm going to enlist her if I ever have a wedding, and since she's in business, I've even encouraged her to start her own online wedding business.)

I'm not sure what drives her to these pursuits except that I know that the projects are fun and creative and she gets practical use out of them in the end and she saves money. (She is stereotypical ISTJ when it comes to saving money!) I noticed a couple of other SJ's doing quilts and curtains and other things they can use.

Do you think that's a common SJ usage for creativity, self expression, and art? - By doing things that they can enjoy/ use in the end? It makes sense to do that anyway, but seems like the other types might just do these things "just because."
 

Saslou

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My mums (ESFJ) expression comes through in her cooking .. Her food is to die for. Her husband is half German, half Jamaican so she plays with different flavours :drool:

I've told her many times to get into interior design as she has a knack of producing beautiful curtains from a rolls of different fabric and everyone comments.

With her dress, she is always looking for something a little different and enjoys checking out different cultures to find inspiration. She always has people asking her where she got this or that as they want it. She has stopped telling them now as it's her own style.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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My ISTJ mother is a graphic artist for Disney. She specializes in merchandising. Her creativity is in guitar. She's played since she was 12. She's really good. If she couldn't have her guitar I think she'd go a little mad.
 

SilkRoad

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I'd say any type can be creative or into the arts, it's too stereotypical to say otherwise. But I would anticipate that SJs might lean a bit more toward artistic pursuits which are also practical: arts which are not only aesthetic but usable in everyday life; cooking; etc.

I wish I leaned more in that direction. ;) Poetry just isn't strictly practical, except that it's good for mental health and that's always important! But I would love to be able to create amazing, creative meals, for instance...if only I didn't find cooking dull.
 

Southern Kross

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A close ESFJ family friend of mine is incredibly crafty. For example, she makes jewellery, makes and decorates bowls, and does lots of mosaic garden ornaments. She gave my parents this really cute mosaic lizard on a rock for the front garden.
 

d@v3

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This might not be what you're looking for, but I'm pretty good at writing. I mean, if I really focus on what I'm doing and am interested in it, I can make things sound very convincing. I'm also a pretty good photographer/videographer. :wink:
 

SilkRoad

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My brother is almost certainly ISTJ and is a fantastic writer. He's quite well-known in his fields of sports and travel writing. Particularly for a sports writer, he's quite erudite. ;) He comes up with some excellent turns of phrase. The only criticism I'd make is that occasionally he sounds like he's trying a little TOO hard to be witty/erudite/borderline cheesy. But he really is an excellent writer.

He's also written fiction, poetry etc but I don't think those are so much his genres.
 

Thinkist

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My ESFJ mother is a harpist.

As far as art and SJs go, I wouldn't deny that they aren't self-expressive (or anyone for that matter, regardless of type). I once read that SJs are more product-oriented than process-oriented when it comes to their art. If I'm not mistaken, SJs may also like to be at least somewhat traditional in their art.

So yeah, I would have to say SJ wouldn't not care about art, they just do it differently than the other temperaments.
 

Habba

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The more I read this thread, the more I think you guys do not understand what self-expression means. One can be creative yet have little need for self-expression. I think that need for self-expression comes from the feeling that you are not being understood by your peers. Artistic self-expression is used when ordinary words and sentences fail to deliver.

I have no such feeling, and I'm not struggling with people not understanding me. Therefore I feel I have no need for excessive self-expressing. I'm quite content with the way people see me.However, as a game developer I believe I'm rather creative.
 

entropie

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The more I read this thread, the more I think you guys do not understand what self-expression means. One can be creative yet have little need for self-expression. I think that need for self-expression comes from the feeling that you are not being understood by your peers. Artistic self-expression is used when ordinary words and sentences fail to deliver.

I have no such feeling, and I'm not struggling with people not understanding me. Therefore I feel I have no need for excessive self-expressing. I'm quite content with the way people see me.However, as a game developer I believe I'm rather creative.

Good point and self-expression can have many many more reasons, like discontent with society, discontent with self or feeling misunderstood. But it doesnt always has to be fueled by a negative, on the contrary. Self-expression is one of the biggest levers for Extroverted Intuition and it doesnt always needs to be art or writings, its everything from game development, over cooking to building war robots.

I hate those SJs in my bureau who think they are intelligent because they hang out at the newest art event every weekend. I think their lifes are empty and they will never understand that I dont like to visit such art events, cause what my mind seeks is not art, cause art and chaos I have every waking second.
 

Winds of Thor

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The stereotype about SJs is that they don't care all that much about art, or individuality, or self-expression. If my life and perspective is any indication, then this stereotype is total BS.

I have something to add if I could, as I'm not an SJ. You're not alone feeling categorized. I think you're most definitely right that stereotypes aren't necessarily true. MBTI typically doesn't list my type gifted at the fine arts..although I have been given a gift of drawing. I don't do it often and am not a professional artist, although a historical organization asked a few months ago if I would draw for them a couple pictures of a Civil War-era structure that has lasted since like 1840. It was an honor and I enjoyed doing them :).

People appreciate and really need each others gifts. Thanks.
 
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Owfin

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I don't really get "art as expressing yourself". I love the aesthetic beauty of art. I feel like I have a strong sense of that. It moves me. My art is created from a love of composition and not from my "inner soul" or whatever. This, for example, is something I made that I consider a kind of art:

Owfin-Representative-Typogr-M.png


I don't make music (might try it out!), but I love music for the sounds. I love poetry for the "texture" of words. I count great books as a kind of art too. Video games must balance form and function, and the best video games are magnificent in the twin pairing of those two. Great product design is beautiful. If you have not noticed, I care about art and not the person behind it.
 

DisneyFanGirl

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My dad is an ISTJ and I was confused about him being an SJ because he's so creative. He enjoys writing and has a natural talent for anything musical. He also loves comic books, which are pretty much art and literature all rolled into one. Ironically, being an ENFP, my dad is the one who initially gave me my creative streak.

On the other hand, my mom is an ISFJ and she's not creative at all. Not one bit. It's very difficult living with someone as dry and factual as she is while I'm dripping with creativity. She has learned how to look at and appreciate good art (I took her to Wicked last September and she LOVED it).My ESFJ brother enjoys drawing and he's quite good at it. I think it depends on the person.
 

SD45T-2

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I'd say Taylor Swift is the most obvious example of an SJ (ISFJ would be my guess) who's big on artistic self-expression. She doesn't write groundbreaking music with complex lyrics, but that obviously hasn't been an impediment to her success.

I don't really get "art as expressing yourself". I love the aesthetic beauty of art. I feel like I have a strong sense of that. It moves me. My art is created from a love of composition and not from my "inner soul" or whatever. This, for example, is something I made that I consider a kind of art:

Owfin-Representative-Typogr-M.png
I think that would fall under concrete poetry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_poetry

I first encountered concrete poetry when I read Age and Guile Beat Youth, Innocence, and a Bad Haircut by P. J. O'Rourke.

I don't make music (might try it out!), but I love music for the sounds. I love poetry for the "texture" of words. I count great books as a kind of art too. Video games must balance form and function, and the best video games are magnificent in the twin pairing of those two. Great product design is beautiful. If you have not noticed, I care about art and not the person behind it.
I'm an avid railfan, and I could talk for a long time about paint schemes and logos. I was pretty excited when Kansas City Southern decided to do a modern version of the classic Southern Belle scheme. I think I could make it even better with a few tweaks, but as is it's still a huge improvement. :)
 

Alehand

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The more I read this thread, the more I think you guys do not understand what self-expression means. One can be creative yet have little need for self-expression. I think that need for self-expression comes from the feeling that you are not being understood by your peers. Artistic self-expression is used when ordinary words and sentences fail to deliver.

I have no such feeling, and I'm not struggling with people not understanding me. Therefore I feel I have no need for excessive self-expressing. I'm quite content with the way people see me.However, as a game developer I believe I'm rather creative.

I write poetry and fiction but not for self-expression, more to use it to clear my mind and make space.

I like to think that my opinions on things, my passion for my sports teams and how I play sport, is sufficient exposure to people. If they want more they can ask.
 

EJCC

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I think that need for self-expression comes from the feeling that you are not being understood by your peers. Artistic self-expression is used when ordinary words and sentences fail to deliver.
I think you're correct in many cases, but in other situations, it's slightly different. For example, let's say you move into an apartment with standard, boring furniture and no decoration. Perhaps your first instinct would be to make it yours -- to put up art that represents your interests, to paint the walls a better color, to put a book you like on the coffee table. Or if your Ne was going particularly crazy (as mine sometimes does), you could make your own coffee table as a craft project, perhaps decoupaging a map of the city/state you're from onto the top of the table.

Depending on your personality, there could be an element of communication in there, too, i.e. to say through your home decor or the clothes you wear, "This is who I am", instead of simply letting your words say that for you. People judge others based on factors besides your direct verbal communication, and that includes the more abstract ways in which you express yourself. For example, your words could say "I don't like football" and your dorm room could say "I love football" (i.e. if you have posters and memorabilia everywhere) -- which would mean that your environment did not match who you are, and, if you were me, you would feel like a stranger in your home, or like it wasn't your home at all.
 
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