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  1. #1
    Junior Member Humble Bragger's Avatar
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    Default Can Si-doms answer this?



    This post peaked my interest.
    I believe both Si users and Se users are focused on sensations, but rather than focusing on sensation possibilities (Se), Si trys to live on just a few. So the routines created by your ISTJ friend are his actions to achieve sensory perfection. Life for me gets better when I get the chance to relive great things.
    I'm gonna presume that's true for most of you (if not then correct me). This could explain alot of misunderstandings I have with you guys.

    You guys derive most of your ideas, opinions, attitudes and whatnot from direct experiences. I'm a Ni-dom who dances with perspectives in idea-land. When I discuss or debate I'm focused on the concept we are discussing and I am constantly looking for different angles to see it from. More simplified: Ni are more inclined to create ideas and then see how they can generally apply to real events while Si's are more inclined to in conclude ideas from specific experiences and choose ideas by the value that the experience proves they had.

    This is where the talk reaches a stalemate. You ISTJs, ime, sees the perspective as impractical and is the reason why think it's impractical because you're focused on the direct experience you concluded the idea from and not the idea's own merit? Does that mean that when I say "you should look at it from another perspective" you're actually hearing "what you concluded as true/false from that specific event you experienced, was wrong!"?

    So is it because you're focused on the past experience and I'm focused on the idea that this specific misunderstanding happens?

  2. #2
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    I don't feel like I live in the past. I don't know why so many people say that about Si. I do, however, cherish some memories and things from the past. I can also have disdain for past memories too, which will cause me to react badly towards things that remind me of that experience. I thought everyone did this though?

    As for exploring possibilities, I think I'm moderately curious and open-minded, but if I'm uncomfortable with something then I won't do it until either the gain or the comfort level tips the scale in the positive direction.

  3. #3
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    I don't think Si doms necessarily live in the past, though they may be more comfortable with linking new information to existing information or current pathways, and they tend to enjoy routine, I've noticed...not the same thing as living in the past.

    I'm not an Si dom by any stretch of the imagination, and ISTJ said just yesterday jokingly "you live in the past" because I am sometimes nostalgic about my childhood.

    I think that both Si and Se types tend to trust experience. I know I do. One of the revelations that I had that I could be a sensor rather than an intuitive is how much credence I give to life experience and the real world versus pure abstract theory (though I do like theory - which is what got me confused, I guess, the descriptions can be too simplistic, like they're only describing Super S and Super N and not the real people in between).

    I do think sometimes though if you tell an ISTJ to look at something from a different perspective they might take it as you telling them that they're wrong, because they tend to build their stores of information and subsequent opinions carefully. Not only that, but they have Fi as well as Si, so good luck arguing with *anyone's* Fi morality, lol.

  4. #4
    Junior Member Humble Bragger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I don't feel like I live in the past. I don't know why so many people say that about Si. I do, however, cherish some memories and things from the past. I can also have disdain for past memories too, which will cause me to react badly towards things that remind me of that experience. I thought everyone did this though?

    As for exploring possibilities, I think I'm moderately curious and open-minded, but if I'm uncomfortable with something then I won't do it until either the gain or the comfort level tips the scale in the positive direction.
    I wasn't talking about the past. Marmie Dearests first paragraph nicely summarized what I meant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I don't think Si doms necessarily live in the past, though they may be more comfortable with linking new information to existing information or current pathways, and they tend to enjoy routine, I've noticed...not the same thing as living in the past.

    I'm not an Si dom by any stretch of the imagination, and ISTJ said just yesterday jokingly "you live in the past" because I am sometimes nostalgic about my childhood.

    I think that both Si and Se types tend to trust experience. I know I do. One of the revelations that I had that I could be a sensor rather than an intuitive is how much credence I give to life experience and the real world versus pure abstract theory (though I do like theory - which is what got me confused, I guess, the descriptions can be too simplistic, like they're only describing Super S and Super N and not the real people in between).

    I do think sometimes though if you tell an ISTJ to look at something from a different perspective they might take it as you telling them that they're wrong, because they tend to build their stores of information and subsequent opinions carefully. Not only that, but they have Fi as well as Si, so good luck arguing with *anyone's* Fi morality, lol.
    I concur. I've seen your/my thoughts be verified after interacting with my Si-dom friends. You're dead on about the Fi thing lol. You'd have to know his Fi values and present a practical method (appeal to his Te) that connects with one of Fi's values. That stops mattering as soon as the Ne matures anyway.

  5. #5
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Bragger View Post
    You guys derive most of your ideas, opinions, attitudes and whatnot from direct experiences. I'm a Ni-dom who dances with perspectives in idea-land. When I discuss or debate I'm focused on the concept we are discussing and I am constantly looking for different angles to see it from. More simplified: Ni are more inclined to create ideas and then see how they can generally apply to real events while Si's are more inclined to in conclude ideas from specific experiences and choose ideas by the value that the experience proves they had.
    I'm not an ISTJ so I realize this wasn't quite directed at me but as an Si-dom I will say this sounds largely true for me. Don't misunderstanding, I like new ideas and taking something in a direction that I've never been before. But I'm going to trust what's work for me in the past over a new thing 99/100 times.

    I'm convinced the phrase, "If it isn't broken then it doesn't need fixing" was coined by an SJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Bragger View Post
    This is where the talk reaches a stalemate. You ISTJs, ime, sees the perspective as impractical and is the reason why think it's impractical because you're focused on the direct experience you concluded the idea from and not the idea's own merit?
    Not entirely. Often times when I dismiss an idea as impractical it's because it hasn't taken all of the other things that this new idea is replacing into consideration.

    It's like you Ns start at Point A and want to jump to D...but you don't realize there are good reasons to stop at Points B and C along the way.

    There are reasons why tired and true methods become tired and true: Because they work!

    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Bragger View Post
    Does that mean that when I say "you should look at it from another perspective" you're actually hearing "what you concluded as true/false from that specific event you experienced, was wrong!"?

    So is it because you're focused on the past experience and I'm focused on the idea that this specific misunderstanding happens?
    I think you're taking the whole "past experience" thing a little too literally. Yes we rely on it but we're a pragmatic bunch and we genuinely value efficiency. If you can find a new way or doing or being that's better than the old then we're very likely to take it up if you can explain how it will help us achieve whatever it is we're trying to do or be.

    Of course, some things I've just developed an emotional attachment too and at that point it's not an "S' or "N" thing we're talking about but an irrational emotional hold on a object or event

    On a side note, one of the paradox's of being an Si-dom I've found is that if I stick only to past experiences...then I won't try anything new and I'll become stagnant. Thusly, in order to grow, I need to do the very thing that makes me the most anxious: Put myself in situation or experiences that I've never had before, so that I can incorporate them into my life and have new experiences for which to draw upon in the future.

    It's frustratingly stupid, like I'm hiking up a mountain that never ends. It blows ass
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Bragger View Post
    I wasn't talking about the past. Marmie Dearests first paragraph nicely summarized what I meant.



    I concur. I've seen your/my thoughts be verified after interacting with my Si-dom friends. You're dead on about the Fi thing lol. You'd have to know his Fi values and present a practical method (appeal to his Te) that connects with one of Fi's values. That stops mattering as soon as the Ne matures anyway.
    What stops mattering as soon as Ne matures?

  7. #7
    Junior Member Humble Bragger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    I'm not an ISTJ so I realize this wasn't quite directed at me but as an Si-dom I will say this sounds largely true for me. Don't misunderstanding, I like new ideas and taking something in a direction that I've never been before. But I'm going to trust what's work for me in the past over a new thing 99/100 times.

    I'm convinced the phrase, "If it isn't broken then it doesn't need fixing" was coined by an SJ



    Not entirely. Often times when I dismiss an idea as impractical it's because it hasn't taken all of the other things that this new idea is replacing into consideration.

    It's like you Ns start at Point A and want to jump to D...but you don't realize there are good reasons to stop at Points B and C along the way.

    There are reasons why tired and true methods become tired and true: Because they work!



    I think you're taking the whole "past experience" thing a little too literally. Yes we rely on it but we're a pragmatic bunch and we genuinely value efficiency. If you can find a new way or doing or being that's better than the old then we're very likely to take it up if you can explain how it will help us achieve whatever it is we're trying to do or be.

    Of course, some things I've just developed an emotional attachment too and at that point it's not an "S' or "N" thing we're talking about but an irrational emotional hold on a object or event

    On a side note, one of the paradox's of being an Si-dom I've found is that if I stick only to past experiences...then I won't try anything new and I'll become stagnant. Thusly, in order to grow, I need to do the very thing that makes me the most anxious: Put myself in situation or experiences that I've never had before, so that I can incorporate them into my life and have new experiences for which to draw upon in the future.

    It's frustratingly stupid, like I'm hiking up a mountain that never ends. It blows ass
    Great! Then I know I'm somewhat right.

    Haha XD Yeah, that's a classic N thing. We tend to forget that people don't connect ideas the same way we do so we just point out the beginning and the end.

    Sweet, I was hoping that wasn't true. So as long as I make you understand how it can be practical for you all is good. Sounds like interpreting when you guys change to Fi is really the most important thing then lol.

    Well good luck! That's a part of your "realizing-that-the-dominant-function-can't-completely-compensate-for-the-inferior-function-and-so-it-must-develop-because-it's-useful-journey" which every type has to go trough :P


    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    What stops mattering as soon as Ne matures?
    Having to appeal to their Te and Fi, ime. There's really nothing more awesome than to communicate with any type who's refined all his functions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Bragger View Post
    Having to appeal to their Te and Fi, ime. There's really nothing more awesome than to communicate with any type who's refined all his functions.
    Well, no, because Te and Fi are still their judging functions, just like they are for an ESTJ, INTJ, ENTJ, ENFP, INFP, ESFP or ISFP. You will always have to appeal to Te, Fi, or both with all of these types since this is how they make their judgments.

    And they will never value Ne like Si, and they aren't meant to. Ne will always be childlike, until they are very old, and perhaps never be more than childlike in some people.

    They don't become ENFPs because you want them to. It's simply that they become more balanced, and it's true, it's easier for TWO types who are balanced to connect (which means you also need to have a develop sensing function).

  9. #9
    Junior Member Humble Bragger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Well, no, because Te and Fi are still their judging functions, just like they are for an ESTJ, INTJ, ENTJ, ENFP, INFP, ESFP or ISFP. You will always have to appeal to Te, Fi, or both with all of these types since this is how they make their judgments.

    And they will never value Ne like Si, and they aren't meant to. Ne will always be childlike, until they are very old, and perhaps never be more than childlike in some people.

    They don't become ENFPs because you want them to. It's simply that they become more balanced, and it's true, it's easier for TWO types who are balanced to connect (which means you also need to have a develop sensing function).
    Really? How much of those traits have you concluded from experience and not theorizing alone? :O I know INTJs and INFJs with developed Se functions pre-20 years of age. If they feel like indulging their extraverted side that day then they easily can act and think like an ESXP (a type which I also get typed as because I don't mold myself after the "eccentric-lonely-intellectual hipster-socially awkward-mastermind-intj-stereotype".

    If someone appeals to my Se instead of my Ni I'll still be able to process the info with equal openness even if not with the same joy. The only time it's annoying is when someone uses a function I don't have. Then I'll have to either try use empathy to put myself in their "thinking shoes" so I can value the function for it's on worth or compensate it with my functions; like how I use Se and Ni in tandem to understand others Si mindset.

    They don't need to value their inferior over their dominant, they just need to have developed it enough for realizing it's value. I don't know about that trait either. I know ENTPs who can be pretty "serious business." Traits isn't what MBTI measures anyway that's Big 5.

  10. #10
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Bragger View Post
    You ISTJs, ime, see the perspective as impractical, and is the reason why you think it's impractical because you're focused on the direct experience you concluded the idea from and not the idea's own merit?
    But ask, how can its merit be measured? To try to estimate its usefulness or correctness, a lot of times we'll use what we know has definitely happened in similar circumstances before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Bragger View Post
    Does that mean that when I say "you should look at it from another perspective" you're actually hearing "what you concluded as true/false from that specific event you experienced, was wrong!"?
    And ask, why else would you invite them to look from another perspective unless you'd thought their current perspective wouldn't lead them to agree with you? (Except for pure exploration's sake, but I doubt that applies to the situations you're talking about.) And you want them to agree with you because, fundamentally, they are wrong and you are right... But as for the personal connection to a cherished memory/experience, that could affect our reaction, but not necessarily. The SJ objection is still relevant even without the emotional link you may have hit.

    Generally, Si-doms are going to be wary of sudden, dramatic shifts, but give them time to get used to an idea, and things will go a lot more smoothly. It'll take some of the edge off of it, by eliminating the surprise-factor. Unfortunately, that means it takes time.

    I do think opening to new perspectives is valuable, believe me. I try to find new angles to look at situations, remembering there could be something to gain by looking at it differently. So that is not automatically the problem, per se.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 09-17-2011 at 09:00 AM. Reason: spacing
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

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