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  1. #21
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcubchgo View Post
    SJ's believe they are being straightforward with their demands and they do not understand the subtle complexities of how others might misinterpret them, or the value of different options.To an N this is "missing the forest for the trees." There is no such thing as an "exact" interpretation of anything. Life is not black and white, but it seems that SJ's believe that it can and should be.
    My experience with the only ESTJ I know is that if the ESTJ doesn't respect you in the same way that they respect themselves, then forget it, you're not getting anywhere with them, just throw in the towel, surrender, you're toast. I had hoped that all ESTJs aren't like this (thank you, EJCC for being awesome ) and am hoping to meet more in the future. Are ENTJs like this?

    ISTJs seem to be a little bit more movable even though you'll have to fight for it, but aside from my Dad (who is great), I don't have many close interactions with them.

    edit: oh wait, there's my old boss who is ISTJ, who I still talk to. He's great too. He's just like my dad... you have to work to convince him of something (which can be quite exhausting) but once you do, he's on board for good. sorry, I'm rambling now.

  2. #22
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    it is a shame about these sorts of miscommunications...like you say n's try to read into what is said but we don't try at all...we can't help but hear you that way...because we speak that way...our brain works that way. we often speak in metaphors...trying to paint the picture for you so that you might be able to interpret it as accurately as possible...like the picture will be felt as strongly as a memory...because words alone can so often be misunderstood....ha...it's an odd thing that but truly know that it's not intended...our brains our just wired differently.
    Nicely put there.

    It's funny, but I guess the opposite emphasis is used by the S. We believe that words can be misunderstood, that's why so much emphasis is using the best words to plainly state situation so that no misinterpretation occurs.

  3. #23
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    yes i'm sure that is true...so if we can just teach ourselves to stop and listen to the exact words in much the same way that we read traffic signs haha it is not okay it might be a good idea to stop if you think that you might run into someone otherwise..it's just stop haha
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #24
    Senior Member bcubchgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    My experience with the only ESTJ I know is that if the ESTJ doesn't respect you in the same way that they respect themselves, then forget it, you're not getting anywhere with them, just throw in the towel, surrender, you're toast. I had hoped that all ESTJs aren't like this (thank you, EJCC for being awesome ) and am hoping to meet more in the future. Are ENTJs like this?
    I think the caveat is whether or not you are trying to "accomplish" something with an ENTJ. If you are working together on a goal - then watch out because we can dig in our heels as much as any ESTJ. I would say that this is because we believe we have proven track records to back ourselves up with. However, in almost all other respects I think that when "dealing" socially with an ENTJ you are less likely to encounter an immovable wall, like with ESTJ. This is mostly because we (like other N's) enjoy connecting the dots in a variety of ways and don't like to immediately discount things unless they pose a challenge to our success. When you challenge us, we are more likely to subvert your demands through other measures instead of duke it out. It's like playing chess - you make gingerly moves until you are threatened. Then it's all out war.
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  5. #25
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I have completely given up to the thought of having any form of relationship with an ESTJ. In a matter of days we'll be either at each other's troath (the best possible case), or secretly hating each other (worst possible case). I'm thankful my family has no ESTJ member, otherwise every reunion would end in a fist-fight.

    Btw, some of the responses here make me sick...if someone wants you to "prove" to them that you're competent, you shouldn't give up to their "demands". Let them be damned for their own lack of trust, and shout at them you don't need to prove anything. Otherwise you'll end up being their psychological slave.

    (btw I don't have this problem with other SJs - in fact I don't have this problem with any other type. Perhaps it's due to shared Te base but different auxiliary)
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  6. #26
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    yes i'm sure that is true...so if we can just teach ourselves to stop and listen to the exact words in much the same way that we read traffic signs haha it is not okay it might be a good idea to stop if you think that you might run into someone otherwise..it's just stop haha
    LOL Pretty much...
    Or otherwise I'll carry around shape and sign cards to bring home my point.

  7. #27
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcubchgo View Post
    SJ's believe they are being straightforward with their demands and they do not understand the subtle complexities of how others might misinterpret them, or the value of different options.
    The bolded is a HUGE leap. The non-bolded makes sense -- I mean, SJs are such straightforward and honest people that can we help but assume that people will hear "i don't like this" when we say "i don't like this"? -- but unless I'm totally misunderstanding the bolded, it's completely wrong. Of course SJs value different options! SJs can appreciate creativity. SJs can BE CREATIVE. SJs can be the ones MAKING the different options.
    To an N this is "missing the forest for the trees." There is no such thing as an "exact" interpretation of anything. Life is not black and white, but it seems that SJ's believe that it can and should be.
    Then how do you propose that anyone presume to understand anyone else? SJs operate as if things are in black and white because if we operated as if nothing could ever be decided, then nothing could ever get done. Also, everyone sees SOME things as being black and white. It's human nature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    My experience with the only ESTJ I know is that if the ESTJ doesn't respect you in the same way that they respect themselves, then forget it, you're not getting anywhere with them, just throw in the towel, surrender, you're toast. I had hoped that all ESTJs aren't like this (thank you, EJCC for being awesome ) and am hoping to meet more in the future.
    Thanks! Actually, I'd almost argue that most ESTJs are still like this, but what separates the nice ones from the mean ones is what it takes to lose their respect. In my case, it takes a lot; I treat everyone with respect until they prove to me that they don't deserve it by being an infuriating and/or horrible person with few redeeming qualities. Also, if I knew that there would be few consequences, if I didn't hide any of my frustration with them, i.e. if I didn't repress any of my distaste for the sake of appearing polite.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esidebill View Post
    Necro.

    Although I am sure the original poster would like your responses, you can see the thread is more than 3 years old.
    please understand me. Did you read him?
    He had barely arrived. And left forthwith.

  9. #29
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Thanks! Actually, I'd almost argue that most ESTJs are still like this, but what separates the nice ones from the mean ones is what it takes to lose their respect. In my case, it takes a lot; I treat everyone with respect until they prove to me that they don't deserve it by being an infuriating and/or horrible person with few redeeming qualities. Also, if I knew that there would be few consequences, if I didn't hide any of my frustration with them, i.e. if I didn't repress any of my distaste for the sake of appearing polite.
    This is good to know. Thank you!

  10. #30
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Plenty of people don't see things as black and white yet still manage to get things done. Saying otherwise is shows a really extreme version of black-and-white thinking.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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