User Tag List

Page 24 of 63 FirstFirst ... 14222324252634 ... LastLast
Results 231 to 240 of 623

Thread: SJ Random Thought Thread

  1. #231
    Crunky Drinkspiller Array Ursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7
    Posts
    369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Entp/infjGal View Post
    I'm curious how much of that is STJ as opposed to simply SJ? I think an NTJ might be similarly interested in evidence, facts that back up a claim. Do you think an SFJ in a similar position would be the same way regarding statistics, referencing etc? Just curios. Any SJ may reply.
    I don't think so. NTJs like evidence, but they seem to need to be trained to want it as much and as particularly as STJs do. NTJs seem a lot more comfortable making inferential leaps and being visionaries about how things should be, without paying as much attention to details. Plato was like this. In his Republic, he had all these ideas of how the ideal society should be. But he didn't pay much attention to how feasible this is and how to get there. I notice a lot of NTJs, especially younger ones, are like this. Things come in generalities to them, and then they have to iron out the details, if they get to it. STJs are much more likely to see the details FIRST and think, "What an idealistic plan; this will never work." That's partly why we are labelled as cautious and "conservative." I encourage you to interact with as many STJs as you can to get the feel of this, because it's quite distinct once you notice. For NTJs, especially INTJs, sensory stuff like details seems more like an afterthought, and often one that have to be reminded about. They have a sense for some details, but not a lot, and that's the difference.

    I don't know much about SFJs. My mother is an SFJ and she often needs to be reminded about objectivity. I don't have enough data to know whether she is representative, though.
    Likes Entp/infjGal liked this post

  2. #232
    Nᴏᴛʜɪɴɢ Fᴇᴇʟs Lɪᴋᴇ Hᴏᴍᴇ Array Yamato Nadeshiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Posts
    5,884

    Default

    Idk I don't think about statistics all that often, especially in general conversation, unless someone else brings it up. I'm taking a statistics class right now and it's murdering me


    I'm so alone
    Trying to find my way back home to you
    Johari / Nohari
    6w7 9w1 2w1 - so/sx
    Phlegmatic - Melancholic
    Sensitive - Solitary - Serious
    Likes Entp/infjGal liked this post

  3. #233
    Member Array
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    MBTI
    FeTi
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    94

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ursa View Post
    I don't think so. NTJs like evidence, but they seem to need to be trained to want it as much and as particularly as STJs do. NTJs seem a lot more comfortable making inferential leaps and being visionaries about how things should be, without paying as much attention to details. Plato was like this. In his Republic, he had all these ideas of how the ideal society should be. But he didn't pay much attention to how feasible this is and how to get there. I notice a lot of NTJs, especially younger ones, are like this. Things come in generalities to them, and then they have to iron out the details, if they get to it. STJs are much more likely to see the details FIRST and think, "What an idealistic plan; this will never work." That's partly why we are labelled as cautious and "conservative." I encourage you to interact with as many STJs as you can to get the feel of this, because it's quite distinct once you notice. For NTJs, especially INTJs, sensory stuff like details seems more like an afterthought, and often one that have to be reminded about. They have a sense for some details, but not a lot, and that's the difference.

    I don't know much about SFJs. My mother is an SFJ and she often needs to be reminded about objectivity. I don't have enough data to know whether she is representative, though.
    Thanks for your response. You likely don't know but I'm one of those people that's been struggling to settle on a type and right now my choices have been narrowed down to ESFJ vs ENFJ. Hence my interest in this thread.

    It's crucial to understand exactly what pertains to Si and what doesn't because even while I realize that I actually don't know what this function is (at least not completely), lots of people conflate skills in "logistics" with skills in Si. But logistics is really a Te strength and SFJs, particularly ESFJ (and ENFJ too) would be least proficient with TE among the types.

    Same thing with "J"ness and even worse, "SJ" ness. A lot of the descriptions seem to presume a very TE kind of "J"ness or "SJ"ness: But TE is concerned with managing non-human objects or resources including time, money, tangible goods (manages humans too but not as a special category, just another resource), or even concepts/non-tangible stuff. It's all about efficiency. It cares about the relationships existing between objects as seen without any kind of subjective bias (hence, extraverted) or human/feeling bias (hence logical relationships and not ethical or emotional ones). This is true of both STJs and NTJs. And which is why they are good at ordering or arranging these objects (strategizing and managing) in such a way that certain goals (whatever they are) may be achieved as easily or smoothly as possible. They know how these objects logically relate to each other and therefore 'what' to move 'where' at 'which point' in order for this or that to happen. What works...out there in the outer world without any kind of emotional or subjective bias.

    But many SFJ descriptions paint pictures of persons who are very good at managing these resources (logistics) for the sake of their families or loved ones. But I believe it is STJs who are very good at this whether they do it for their families at home or their bosses in their organizations.

    The combination of TE with Si rather than Ni would likely make them more detail oriented as you pointed out but all TE types would be interested in what is actually effective and gets things done...what works! Which is why I think they would both care greatly for evidence and statistics and things like that, with STJs being much less likely to make leaps about what they think works without first seeing all the "details" of it and NTJs feeling they know what will be effective without all the details first being in place (Doesn't mean they go against evidence or that they don't care for it, though). I am guessing that between the two groups, NTJs make better lawyers while STJs make better business-managers.

    I think many SFJs may be deciding they cannot possibly be SFJ because they see that these types are supposed to be very good at things they themselves struggle with (TE skills and strengths). I think SFJs likely are just as good as STJs with details but that they don't care for TE details. They might care more for details that tell them about people and human interactions but really struggle at tasks requiring them to swim in details from a TE bias or of a TE variety (efficient use/management of resources).

    For example @21lux is suffering through statistics as a logistical science/activity, I am guessing. However, she might remember specific statistics about people she's interested in if someone happened to mention it to her (even while not caring so much about working out the statistics themselves), for example what percentage of trans-gendered people do this or that, or how likely women are to do this or that. Information like that is interesting from an FE perspective because it tells you more about actual people and their lives, the goal being to better understand people...a strong FE bias. The FE manages very different kinds of relationships that exist specifically between people.

    Paradoxically, SFJs might be very good at logic (of the Ti kind), and Dario Nardi's preliminary findings were that both ESFJs and ENFJs, for example, use at least one of the Ti brain regions very well. Meaning they would likely be better at and enjoy Ti tasks (conceptual classification or deductive logic), way, way more than TE tasks (like managing time, money and other resources, whether for the house or the office) on any given day.

  4. #234
    Member Array
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    MBTI
    FeTi
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    94

    Default

    Then again, I recall Nardi saying that Si enables the user gain specialty in any given area. Hence, SFJs may come to match the skills of TJs if they are somehow forced or required to perform TE tasks for an extended amount of time, thus burning neural pathways in their brains that gives them whatever skill-set is required by the task.

    Thus, those SFJ "perfect-home-keeper" stereotypes may indeed reflect true SFJs who had been "home-keeping" forever. But if the SFJ has not had such practice, she will feel completely at odds with such descriptions.

    Si is the tendency towards specialization or deep-diving proper, while, in comparison, Ni users are generalists (according to Dario Nardi's book)

  5. #235
    Nᴏᴛʜɪɴɢ Fᴇᴇʟs Lɪᴋᴇ Hᴏᴍᴇ Array Yamato Nadeshiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Posts
    5,884

    Default

    SFJ descriptions are the actual worst. If you're having trouble trying to understand Si beyond the stereotypes, I made a thread about that a while back that might be useful to you! Also, I am a boy :3


    I'm so alone
    Trying to find my way back home to you
    Johari / Nohari
    6w7 9w1 2w1 - so/sx
    Phlegmatic - Melancholic
    Sensitive - Solitary - Serious
    Likes Ursa, Entp/infjGal liked this post

  6. #236
    Crunky Drinkspiller Array Ursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7
    Posts
    369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Entp/infjGal View Post
    The combination of TE with Si rather than Ni would likely make them more detail oriented as you pointed out but all TE types would be interested in what is actually effective and gets things done...what works! Which is why I think they would both care greatly for evidence and statistics and things like that, with STJs being much less likely to make leaps about what they think works without first seeing all the "details" of it and NTJs feeling they know what will be effective without all the details first being in place (Doesn't mean they go against evidence or that they don't care for it, though). I am guessing that between the two groups, NTJs make better lawyers while STJs make better business-managers.

    I think many SFJs may be deciding they cannot possibly be SFJ because they see that these types are supposed to be very good at things they themselves struggle with (TE skills and strengths). I think SFJs likely are just as good as STJs with details but that they don't care for TE details. They might care more for details that tell them about people and human interactions but really struggle at tasks requiring them to swim in details from a TE bias or of a TE variety (efficient use/management of resources).

    For example @21lux is suffering through statistics as a logistical science/activity, I am guessing. However, she might remember specific statistics about people she's interested in if someone happened to mention it to her (even while not caring so much about working out the statistics themselves), for example what percentage of trans-gendered people do this or that, or how likely women are to do this or that. Information like that is interesting from an FE perspective because it tells you more about actual people and their lives, the goal being to better understand people...a strong FE bias. The FE manages very different kinds of relationships that exist specifically between people.

    Paradoxically, SFJs might be very good at logic (of the Ti kind), and Dario Nardi's preliminary findings were that both ESFJs and ENFJs, for example, use at least one of the Ti brain regions very well. Meaning they would likely be better at and enjoy Ti tasks (conceptual classification or deductive logic), way, way more than TE tasks (like managing time, money and other resources, whether for the house or the office) on any given day.
    It sounds like you've done your homework! I wish you the very best in your type search.

    You are absolutely correct about Te being about logistics. STJs and SJFs will manifest themselves quite differently on account of that. I also think you correctly touched on the differences between NTJs and STJs. NTJs have a much more general sense about what "works." It's as though they ask themselves, "Wouldn't it be great if [blank] happened?" and they don't question themselves much further on how feasible that is; they just push very hard towards it. They hone in on the ideal.

    I do highly recommend the thread that @21lux mentioned. It's well worth a look.
    Likes Entp/infjGal liked this post

  7. #237
    Member Array
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    MBTI
    FeTi
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    94

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ursa View Post
    It sounds like you've done your homework! I wish you the very best in your type search.

    You are absolutely correct about Te being about logistics. STJs and SJFs will manifest themselves quite differently on account of that. I also think you correctly touched on the differences between NTJs and STJs. NTJs have a much more general sense about what "works." It's as though they ask themselves, "Wouldn't it be great if [blank] happened?" and they don't question themselves much further on how feasible that is; they just push very hard towards it. They hone in on the ideal.

    I do highly recommend the thread that @21lux mentioned. It's well worth a look.
    I got that TE is logistics from another person in another forum (giving credit where it's due!). I was insisting I could not be an SFJ due to this or that life-long struggle, proceeded to list a whole bunch. He then summarized it all by telling me that I was essentially describing struggles in logistics, but not Si. That indicated weakness in TE but not Si. Since then, I have come to see that it is true. Organization proper is really logistics, whether it is for personal work, institutional work or the house. So an SFJ might actually be a very bad house-keeper unless they find a simple routine that they manage to burn deeply into their brain (create required neural pathways) over consistent practice. This made me really get over my anti-Si bias and I became open to it as a real possibility.

  8. #238
    Nᴏᴛʜɪɴɢ Fᴇᴇʟs Lɪᴋᴇ Hᴏᴍᴇ Array Yamato Nadeshiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Posts
    5,884

    Default

    What if I actually finished making a visual novel instead of coming up with an idea and then forgetting about it?


    I'm so alone
    Trying to find my way back home to you
    Johari / Nohari
    6w7 9w1 2w1 - so/sx
    Phlegmatic - Melancholic
    Sensitive - Solitary - Serious
    Likes Ursa liked this post

  9. #239
    Nᴏᴛʜɪɴɢ Fᴇᴇʟs Lɪᴋᴇ Hᴏᴍᴇ Array Yamato Nadeshiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Posts
    5,884

    Default



    I'm so alone
    Trying to find my way back home to you
    Johari / Nohari
    6w7 9w1 2w1 - so/sx
    Phlegmatic - Melancholic
    Sensitive - Solitary - Serious
    Likes an hero liked this post

  10. #240
    Nᴏᴛʜɪɴɢ Fᴇᴇʟs Lɪᴋᴇ Hᴏᴍᴇ Array Yamato Nadeshiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Posts
    5,884

    Default

    Why do people talk like justice and mercy are incompatible? Sometimes justice is mercy. And sometimes mercy is justice.


    I'm so alone
    Trying to find my way back home to you
    Johari / Nohari
    6w7 9w1 2w1 - so/sx
    Phlegmatic - Melancholic
    Sensitive - Solitary - Serious
    Likes Xann liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. Random Thought Thread
    By Snuggletron in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 67732
    Last Post: Today, 07:02 AM
  2. [NT] Random thought thread (NT version)
    By yenom in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 155
    Last Post: 10-22-2016, 04:00 PM
  3. The random philosophy thought thread
    By Evee in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 07-27-2016, 10:58 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO