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[SJ] SJ Random Thought Thread

Forever

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SJ's: all 4 of you come together and riddle me this:

Why is it the general population of you is to stare at weird people? Like whenever I leave my hair messy people give me the you're weird look. But when I keep it neat. People think I'm a celebrity. I'm interested and it's annoying that some people judge by these extremes.

Other types are welcome to answer and for their input as well.

I mean I've seen people in concerts have long hair. Do they get freakish looks all the time? Why with people who gave tattoos get less looks? I have no idea.
 

Yama

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SJ's: all 4 of you come together and riddle me this:

Why is it the general population of you is to stare at weird people? Like whenever I leave my hair messy people give me the you're weird look. But when I keep it neat. People think I'm a celebrity. I'm interested and it's annoying that some people judge by these extremes.

Other types are welcome to answer and for their input as well.

I mean I've seen people in concerts have long hair. Do they get freakish looks all the time? Why with people who gave tattoos get less looks? I have no idea.

Idk man I don't really care about people's messy hair :shrug:
 

Forever

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Idk man I don't really care about people's messy hair :shrug:

Me either. I tend to look at when people tend to do their hair purposely in very unique individual ways. :shrug:
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
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SJ's: all 4 of you come together and riddle me this:

Why is it the general population of you is to stare at weird people? Like whenever I leave my hair messy people give me the you're weird look. But when I keep it neat. People think I'm a celebrity. I'm interested and it's annoying that some people judge by these extremes.

Other types are welcome to answer and for their input as well.

I mean I've seen people in concerts have long hair. Do they get freakish looks all the time? Why with people who gave tattoos get less looks? I have no idea.

I don't know why you're assuming all SJs do this? What makes these people SJs?

I can't say I tend to give people weird looks/stare at them unless they have something crazy going on like half of a full beard and half of a shaved face (I have seen this in WalMart before...interestingly it was likely a phenomenon called hemispatial neglect, which is often due to severe brain damage of one hemisphere of the brain).

I have to say, though...I have more often than not been on the receiving end of such weird looks. I'm not sure why, either. I think I look pretty normal, but something about me must repulse certain people. :shrug:
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
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The answers to these homework assignments I'm grading are freaking ridiculous.

Case study (simplified): A man gets hit in the head and goes to the ER blah blah blah. Testing revealed a skull fracture and a dark mass between the skull and the brain.

1. Question (simplified): What do you diagnose this man with?

Answer (from student): Meningitis.

[Real answer is a type of brain bleed.]

2. Question (simplified): Would you keep this patient for further observation?

Answer (from a different student): No.

[Real answer is duh yes because the guy is bleeding within his skull.]

9f9.jpg
 

EJCC

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SJ's: all 4 of you come together and riddle me this:

Why is it the general population of you is to stare at weird people? Like whenever I leave my hair messy people give me the you're weird look. But when I keep it neat. People think I'm a celebrity. I'm interested and it's annoying that some people judge by these extremes.

Other types are welcome to answer and for their input as well.

I mean I've seen people in concerts have long hair. Do they get freakish looks all the time? Why with people who gave tattoos get less looks? I have no idea.
If you absolutely have to give this a type-related explanation:

1) Strong Si means being very aware of anything that doesn't fit into your pre-established mental system of How Things Work (however you define that)
2) Strong Te means being very aware of "disrespectful behavior" (however you define that)
3) Strong Fe means being very aware of "inconsiderate behavior" (however you define that)

That being said, there are judgmental people of all types, and there are non-judgmental people of all types. So, whether "How Things Work", "disrespectful behavior", or "inconsiderate behavior", includes people having messy hair, will completely 100% depend on your own definitions of those three categories.

Personally, I tend to notice anything out of the ordinary, just because my eye is drawn to that -- whether it's a good thing or a bad thing. If I'm staring at someone's hair, it's more likely that I'm impressed by it, than that I'm judging it.
 

Yama

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If I had a nickel for every time I've heard this exact thing from an IxFJ...

(My INFJ mother would phrase it less diplomatically than you: "Why am I surrounded by CRAZY people?!?")

First there was the Egyptian kid who told me all about how his dad wanted him to be a doctor but he didn't want that kind of life and wanted to pursue his own dreams

And then there was the woman who told me about her failed modelling career and the time she got a DUI and also almost got arrested for bringing a kid a pair of glasses at an elementary school

And then last night was the cashier at circle k at 1 am who decided to tell me all about how his ex-fiance stole all his video games when they broke up and about playing tabletop gaming about vampires with his friends
 

Smilephantomhive

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Lol I wrote the most SJ sterotype essay ever. The prompt was analyze the reasons why some Americans went back to conservative ways.
 

Ursa

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SJ's: all 4 of you come together and riddle me this:

Why is it the general population of you is to stare at weird people? Like whenever I leave my hair messy people give me the you're weird look. But when I keep it neat. People think I'm a celebrity. I'm interested and it's annoying that some people judge by these extremes.

I don't stare at weird hair, but I live near Seattle where many people have weird hair. I have a mohawk, and it's about to become magenta soon.

Tertiary Ne is the reason I don't look? And maybe because it's Seattle?

I don't know how people can have such a stick up their ass about something like hair. My SJness comes out more (and in full force) when people suggest a course of action to take and have no statistics to back the plan up. Or when they present an argument and don't cite sources and details. It's stuff like that that bothers me, not fashion. Or when I need something explained and the other person only explains in generalities and gives no examples.

SJness is more about habit, routine, details and statistics, at least to this ESTJ. As long you do your work well, respect your obligations and those around you, I don't have much of a problem with you in the general sense.
 

Entp/infjGal

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My SJness comes out more (and in full force) when people suggest a course of action to take and have no statistics to back the plan up. Or when they present an argument and don't cite sources and details. It's stuff like that that bothers me, not fashion. Or when I need something explained and the other person only explains in generalities and gives no examples.

SJness is more about habit, routine, details and statistics, at least to this ESTJ. As long you do your work well, respect your obligations and those around you, I don't have much of a problem with you in the general sense.

I'm curious how much of that is STJ as opposed to simply SJ? I think an NTJ might be similarly interested in evidence, facts that back up a claim. Do you think an SFJ in a similar position would be the same way regarding statistics, referencing etc? Just curios. Any SJ may reply. :)
 

Ursa

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I'm curious how much of that is STJ as opposed to simply SJ? I think an NTJ might be similarly interested in evidence, facts that back up a claim. Do you think an SFJ in a similar position would be the same way regarding statistics, referencing etc? Just curios. Any SJ may reply. :)

I don't think so. NTJs like evidence, but they seem to need to be trained to want it as much and as particularly as STJs do. NTJs seem a lot more comfortable making inferential leaps and being visionaries about how things should be, without paying as much attention to details. Plato was like this. In his Republic, he had all these ideas of how the ideal society should be. But he didn't pay much attention to how feasible this is and how to get there. I notice a lot of NTJs, especially younger ones, are like this. Things come in generalities to them, and then they have to iron out the details, if they get to it. STJs are much more likely to see the details FIRST and think, "What an idealistic plan; this will never work." That's partly why we are labelled as cautious and "conservative." I encourage you to interact with as many STJs as you can to get the feel of this, because it's quite distinct once you notice. For NTJs, especially INTJs, sensory stuff like details seems more like an afterthought, and often one that have to be reminded about. They have a sense for some details, but not a lot, and that's the difference.

I don't know much about SFJs. My mother is an SFJ and she often needs to be reminded about objectivity. I don't have enough data to know whether she is representative, though.
 

Yama

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Idk I don't think about statistics all that often, especially in general conversation, unless someone else brings it up. I'm taking a statistics class right now and it's murdering me
 

Entp/infjGal

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I don't think so. NTJs like evidence, but they seem to need to be trained to want it as much and as particularly as STJs do. NTJs seem a lot more comfortable making inferential leaps and being visionaries about how things should be, without paying as much attention to details. Plato was like this. In his Republic, he had all these ideas of how the ideal society should be. But he didn't pay much attention to how feasible this is and how to get there. I notice a lot of NTJs, especially younger ones, are like this. Things come in generalities to them, and then they have to iron out the details, if they get to it. STJs are much more likely to see the details FIRST and think, "What an idealistic plan; this will never work." That's partly why we are labelled as cautious and "conservative." I encourage you to interact with as many STJs as you can to get the feel of this, because it's quite distinct once you notice. For NTJs, especially INTJs, sensory stuff like details seems more like an afterthought, and often one that have to be reminded about. They have a sense for some details, but not a lot, and that's the difference.

I don't know much about SFJs. My mother is an SFJ and she often needs to be reminded about objectivity. I don't have enough data to know whether she is representative, though.

Thanks for your response.:) You likely don't know but I'm one of those people that's been struggling to settle on a type and right now my choices have been narrowed down to ESFJ vs ENFJ. Hence my interest in this thread.

It's crucial to understand exactly what pertains to Si and what doesn't because even while I realize that I actually don't know what this function is (at least not completely), lots of people conflate skills in "logistics" with skills in Si. But logistics is really a Te strength and SFJs, particularly ESFJ (and ENFJ too) would be least proficient with TE among the types.

Same thing with "J"ness and even worse, "SJ" ness. A lot of the descriptions seem to presume a very TE kind of "J"ness or "SJ"ness: But TE is concerned with managing non-human objects or resources including time, money, tangible goods (manages humans too but not as a special category, just another resource), or even concepts/non-tangible stuff. It's all about efficiency. It cares about the relationships existing between objects as seen without any kind of subjective bias (hence, extraverted) or human/feeling bias (hence logical relationships and not ethical or emotional ones). This is true of both STJs and NTJs. And which is why they are good at ordering or arranging these objects (strategizing and managing) in such a way that certain goals (whatever they are) may be achieved as easily or smoothly as possible. They know how these objects logically relate to each other and therefore 'what' to move 'where' at 'which point' in order for this or that to happen. What works...out there in the outer world without any kind of emotional or subjective bias.

But many SFJ descriptions paint pictures of persons who are very good at managing these resources (logistics) for the sake of their families or loved ones. But I believe it is STJs who are very good at this whether they do it for their families at home or their bosses in their organizations.

The combination of TE with Si rather than Ni would likely make them more detail oriented as you pointed out but all TE types would be interested in what is actually effective and gets things done...what works! Which is why I think they would both care greatly for evidence and statistics and things like that, with STJs being much less likely to make leaps about what they think works without first seeing all the "details" of it and NTJs feeling they know what will be effective without all the details first being in place (Doesn't mean they go against evidence or that they don't care for it, though). I am guessing that between the two groups, NTJs make better lawyers while STJs make better business-managers.

I think many SFJs may be deciding they cannot possibly be SFJ because they see that these types are supposed to be very good at things they themselves struggle with (TE skills and strengths). I think SFJs likely are just as good as STJs with details but that they don't care for TE details. They might care more for details that tell them about people and human interactions but really struggle at tasks requiring them to swim in details from a TE bias or of a TE variety (efficient use/management of resources).

For example [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] is suffering through statistics as a logistical science/activity, I am guessing. However, she might remember specific statistics about people she's interested in if someone happened to mention it to her (even while not caring so much about working out the statistics themselves), for example what percentage of trans-gendered people do this or that, or how likely women are to do this or that. Information like that is interesting from an FE perspective because it tells you more about actual people and their lives, the goal being to better understand people...a strong FE bias. The FE manages very different kinds of relationships that exist specifically between people.

Paradoxically, SFJs might be very good at logic (of the Ti kind), and Dario Nardi's preliminary findings were that both ESFJs and ENFJs, for example, use at least one of the Ti brain regions very well. Meaning they would likely be better at and enjoy Ti tasks (conceptual classification or deductive logic), way, way more than TE tasks (like managing time, money and other resources, whether for the house or the office) on any given day.
 

Entp/infjGal

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Then again, I recall Nardi saying that Si enables the user gain specialty in any given area. Hence, SFJs may come to match the skills of TJs if they are somehow forced or required to perform TE tasks for an extended amount of time, thus burning neural pathways in their brains that gives them whatever skill-set is required by the task.

Thus, those SFJ "perfect-home-keeper" stereotypes may indeed reflect true SFJs who had been "home-keeping" forever.:unsure::unsure::unsure: But if the SFJ has not had such practice, she will feel completely at odds with such descriptions.

Si is the tendency towards specialization or deep-diving proper, while, in comparison, Ni users are generalists (according to Dario Nardi's book)
 

Yama

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SFJ descriptions are the actual worst. If you're having trouble trying to understand Si beyond the stereotypes, I made a thread about that a while back that might be useful to you! Also, I am a boy :3
 

Ursa

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The combination of TE with Si rather than Ni would likely make them more detail oriented as you pointed out but all TE types would be interested in what is actually effective and gets things done...what works! Which is why I think they would both care greatly for evidence and statistics and things like that, with STJs being much less likely to make leaps about what they think works without first seeing all the "details" of it and NTJs feeling they know what will be effective without all the details first being in place (Doesn't mean they go against evidence or that they don't care for it, though). I am guessing that between the two groups, NTJs make better lawyers while STJs make better business-managers.

I think many SFJs may be deciding they cannot possibly be SFJ because they see that these types are supposed to be very good at things they themselves struggle with (TE skills and strengths). I think SFJs likely are just as good as STJs with details but that they don't care for TE details. They might care more for details that tell them about people and human interactions but really struggle at tasks requiring them to swim in details from a TE bias or of a TE variety (efficient use/management of resources).

For example [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] is suffering through statistics as a logistical science/activity, I am guessing. However, she might remember specific statistics about people she's interested in if someone happened to mention it to her (even while not caring so much about working out the statistics themselves), for example what percentage of trans-gendered people do this or that, or how likely women are to do this or that. Information like that is interesting from an FE perspective because it tells you more about actual people and their lives, the goal being to better understand people...a strong FE bias. The FE manages very different kinds of relationships that exist specifically between people.

Paradoxically, SFJs might be very good at logic (of the Ti kind), and Dario Nardi's preliminary findings were that both ESFJs and ENFJs, for example, use at least one of the Ti brain regions very well. Meaning they would likely be better at and enjoy Ti tasks (conceptual classification or deductive logic), way, way more than TE tasks (like managing time, money and other resources, whether for the house or the office) on any given day.

It sounds like you've done your homework! I wish you the very best in your type search.

You are absolutely correct about Te being about logistics. STJs and SJFs will manifest themselves quite differently on account of that. I also think you correctly touched on the differences between NTJs and STJs. NTJs have a much more general sense about what "works." It's as though they ask themselves, "Wouldn't it be great if [blank] happened?" and they don't question themselves much further on how feasible that is; they just push very hard towards it. They hone in on the ideal.

I do highly recommend the thread that [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] mentioned. It's well worth a look.
 

Entp/infjGal

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It sounds like you've done your homework! I wish you the very best in your type search.

You are absolutely correct about Te being about logistics. STJs and SJFs will manifest themselves quite differently on account of that. I also think you correctly touched on the differences between NTJs and STJs. NTJs have a much more general sense about what "works." It's as though they ask themselves, "Wouldn't it be great if [blank] happened?" and they don't question themselves much further on how feasible that is; they just push very hard towards it. They hone in on the ideal.

I do highly recommend the thread that [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] mentioned. It's well worth a look.

I got that TE is logistics from another person in another forum (giving credit where it's due!). I was insisting I could not be an SFJ due to this or that life-long struggle, proceeded to list a whole bunch. He then summarized it all by telling me that I was essentially describing struggles in logistics, but not Si. That indicated weakness in TE but not Si. Since then, I have come to see that it is true. Organization proper is really logistics, whether it is for personal work, institutional work or the house. So an SFJ might actually be a very bad house-keeper unless they find a simple routine that they manage to burn deeply into their brain (create required neural pathways) over consistent practice. This made me really get over my anti-Si bias and I became open to it as a real possibility.:)
 

Yama

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What if I actually finished making a visual novel instead of coming up with an idea and then forgetting about it?
 

Yama

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Why do people talk like justice and mercy are incompatible? Sometimes justice is mercy. And sometimes mercy is justice. :shrug:
 
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