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  1. #11
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    i wonder if fe being your tertiary function is why it bothers you so much as a dom function in others...it seems to in me a bit with te
    Interesting! I've heard that before and I'll bet there's something to it, although I don't understand it. Do you?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    but to comment on your above post...yeah it seems you offended their fe. you weren't being polite (obvious to me you were joking) but i don't think that matters to them. it was impolite in their eyes. you were not acknowledging their feelings or the showing them the respect they felt they deserved.
    Yes, I think that's it. I'll have to be a lot more careful about that in the future.

    Thanks!

  2. #12
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    My best friend over the last 10 years is ENTP and he really annoyed me when I first met him, so yes it is certainly possible.
    Wow, interesting, thanks! What was it you found annoying about him when you first met? And how did you end up being best friends?

    Is it common for you to start off disliking people until you get to know them better? What is it that changes your mind about them?


    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    However, at work there's this other ENTP that posted crap on my facebook when I accidentally left myself logged in, so the cycle continues.
    Hmmmm, yeah, that would be annoying. I can see it being amusing if it wasn't too manipulative, but I can also see it being really nasty, depending what it was, how well you know each other, and whether it made you look like a dick or an idiot to your FB friends.

    (I'll resist the urge to one-up you with stories about some of the things my ex-coworkers have done to me )

  3. #13
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I'm no expert on ESFJs, but my mom's ISFJ -- and I think they are close enough. One thing that I think is worth mentioning is that SFJs might expect you to following the traditional female role more (be nice, friendly, smile a lot, empathetic), which you don't naturally do. My female INTP cousin had a lot of problems with her SFJ roommate, because the roommate felt she was too direct, too blunt, and sometimes rude -- which wasn't my cousin's intention at all! (They usually ate together. The roommate always asked my cousin what she wanted to eat, and my cousin always replied directly, and they usually ended up eating the thing my cousin suggested. The roommate never argued, but felt that the fact that my cousin never asked back what she wanted to eat that day was a sign of selfishness)

    An NT female's independence could come off as 'cold' to feeling people, especially if they don't know you well enough. Your logic-talking could be taken as rudeness when more feeling-oriented behaviors are expected, especially if someone comes to you with a problem and is expecting empathy.

    4w5 sp/sx EII

  4. #14
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I have a problem with some ESFJs myself. And I'm ISTJ!
    Wow, that's funny! The ESFJ I worked with 2 jobs ago was the ISTJ boss's absolute fav, who could do no wrong.

    You don't really strike me as ISTJ, but then again, I'm not sure I've ever communicated with an ISTJ over a forum before, so I have no idea.


    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I think those who seem to come at me with Fe...barrage of questions that they are asking as making a connection, but they don't take the discussion any further.
    Wait, I'm not sure I understand this sentence. I think you're saying that you don't like the ones who come with a barrage of questions as an attempt to make a connection, but don't take the discussion further than that?

    Anyway yeah, I don't quite get how to connect with some of them, either.


    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    There's an ESFJ at work who is real buddy buddy with the ENTP on the team....they get along well, but the ESFJ becomes the butt of his jokes.
    That's cool, it's good at least that the ESFJ is good-natured about it and can take a joke. He should try doing it back sometime.

  5. #15
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    I'm no expert on ESFJs, but my mom's ISFJ -- and I think they are close enough. One thing that I think is worth mentioning is that SFJs might expect you to following the traditional female role more (be nice, friendly, smile a lot, empathetic), which you don't naturally do. My female INTP cousin had a lot of problems with her SFJ roommate, because the roommate felt she was too direct, too blunt, and sometimes rude -- which wasn't my cousin's intention at all! (They usually ate together. The roommate always asked my cousin what she wanted to eat, and my cousin always replied directly, and they usually ended up eating the thing my cousin suggested. The roommate never argued, but felt that the fact that my cousin never asked back what she wanted to eat that day was a sign of selfishness)

    An NT female's independence could come off as 'cold' to feeling people, especially if they don't know you well enough. Your logic-talking could be taken as rudeness when more feeling-oriented behaviors are expected, especially if someone comes to you with a problem and is expecting empathy.

    Hm, those are some awesome points, and very insightful, thanks!

    I think that in terms of being polite, friendly, and smiling a lot, I'm pretty good with that. The problem comes when I open my mouth.... I think the part about using logic when someone is expecting empathy is a big part of my past f-ups....

    Thanks for the great insight, everyone!

  6. #16
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Redcheerio when they weren't around, and use things they'd confided in her against them with the boss.
    This ESFJ I work with- "Fat Bastard" did that to me. I said something in a meeting between us- basically how I did not agree with the boss' approach to our work. We were in his office during our 1200th remediation, and he spun what I said as if I trashed the boss, and he's this loyalist. It pissed me off to no end.

    Mind you, I work with 2 of them, one of them, the younger one who I was talking about attacking me with his good intentioned Fe, is actually a nice guy who wants to everyone around him to be happy. The one above is older, thinks he's the cat's meow, and wears tight polos. TMI with the exposed belly action we get sometimes.

  7. #17
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    Is it common for you to start off disliking people until you get to know them better? What is it that changes your mind about them?

    [/SIZE]
    Yes. I find this is a J tendency, probably more IxxJ, to make instant judgements about people and situations. Especially with Si users, we immediately associate what's in front of us with what's happened before, and prepare ourselves for a similar experience.

  8. #18
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    Wow, that's funny! The ESFJ I worked with 2 jobs ago was the ISTJ boss's absolute fav, who could do no wrong.
    Definitely not the case here. I think our ISTJ boss everytime Fat ESFJ leaves his office.

    You don't really strike me as ISTJ, but then again, I'm not sure I've ever communicated with an ISTJ over a forum before, so I have no idea.
    After reading some of the descriptions they have of us, I say the same thing about myself. But if I go by functions, I'm definitely Si/Te. I have good Ne, and lately have become more aware of my Fi moments. I'm pretty balanced.



    Wait, I'm not sure I understand this sentence. I think you're saying that you don't like the ones who come with a barrage of questions as an attempt to make a connection, but don't take the discussion further than that?
    Yes! I think it's because the answers to the questions are sometimes so obvious that it's a waste of breath to ask them, so you must be using that as a springboard to something else. I'll wait for the connector, but nothing happens..............

    And the one guy who's nice, it's like he jumps on me with questions, (like he's doing right now), and if I don't answer right away, he asks more questions. I call that the Fe attack.

    Anyway yeah, I don't quite get how to connect with some of them, either.
    I just hate being told how I 'should' do anything, especially when they say I was as 'wrong' or 'mean', especially when I'm joking.

    That's cool, it's good at least that the ESFJ is good-natured about it and can take a joke. He should try doing it back sometime.
    He does.

  9. #19
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    Is it common for you to start off disliking people until you get to know them better? What is it that changes your mind about them?
    I don't start off disliking people, I start off liking everyone, probably too much so... and sometimes I'll be so shocked to find out that they dislike me. I really don't think it's due to any type differences. I think, initially, some people are just more guarded emotionally and others are not so guarded, and then there is a persons natural moods that factor into this (i.e. are they naturally grumpy or naturally happy person?)


    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    Thanks. I kind of see INTPs as being like introverted twins to ENTPs, since we have the same functions but in a different order. So while we relate to people differently, we think similarly. So I figured that it might be similar with ISFJs and ESFJs? That although you interact differently with people, you might understand how they think or where they're coming from? (BTW, I've never met an ISFJ I didn't get along with.)
    *bows to you*
    TBH, I don't like answering ESFJ questions but there are so few of them here that I don't want to leave people hanging who genuinely want help, and aren't just here to vent/rant/blow of steam.


    It's true, and I think his point was valid, even if I think he overreacted. I didn't take it as seriously as I should have, and didn't realize how vehemently he would react to my not taking it seriously. I've learned my lesson from the experience, though. I've also learned my lesson to be more careful not to make other people feel stupid.
    Awww, I don't know how anyone could not like you. You're so adorable.

    I've found that for me, staying away from them only made things worse. I think introverts might be able to get away from it, but since I tend to be pretty sociable with most people, it probably stands out when I'm not sociable with anyone else who is sociable, if that makes sense.
    Yes, it does make sense. Something I do for my emotional well being and health is start over fresh with people, at least in my own mind. It helps me to clear out any negative emotional thoughts/baggage-- which weigh me down and I dislike with a passion. This may not change whatever the other persons annoying thoughts and behaviors are, but it helps me feel more at peace somehow. Just sharing more personal anecdotes.

    Hm, that makes sense, thanks. Funny you should mention going to lunch a lot, because she used to invite me to lunch sometimes, and I never opened up to her because I didn't trust her. She used to complain about other coworkers when they weren't around, and use things they'd confided in her against them with the boss. Now I'm wondering if she was sincerely trying to make an effort, and I made things worse by keeping quiet. I always had the impression she was trying to set traps for me, since she often said things to the boss to get him pissed off at others in the office. Hm, I'm still not sure whether I was being smart or paranoid.
    I think you were being smart... I would have done the same thing with someone I didn't trust. Maybe lunch is a bad idea then if she's a backstabber. Knowing this I wouldn't even care if she didn't like me. There's nothing you can do about it. Please remember that not all ESFJs are that way though.

  10. #20
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    i feel ya, redcheerio. i accidentally piss people off a lot by being flippant about things that others take seriously without realizing until it's too late that i've done so. hanging around with others that get me for a good amount of time can cause me to be a bit too comfortable with being myself and that causes problems when i again get around others who don't know me as well. i forget how truly badly i can come off if not careful, but we do learn and we do want to learn and that combination, more often than not, wins out in the end. great for us; great for them.

    sadly, a lot of our kind of kidding around comes in the form of faux cockiness. i mean, sure, we can be cocky, but unlike those who truly are full of themselves, we're actually aware that we're being full of crap when we do it. hell, even when we're really feeling cocky, we're aware of how much more we have to learn. however, those who don't know that, only see the surface BS, and believe we really think we're as great as we're joking we are.

    the way i usually 'fix' these situations, is to go to them for help. not only does it show that we value something they can contribute, but it also gives them the chance to realize that perhaps they'd judged the situation wrong and opens them up to giving us another chance. asking for advice (about anything) one or two more times after that, mixed in with being yourself, but making it more obvious that you know you're full of crap when acting that way allows them to see you more clearly.

    hope this helps.
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