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  1. #1
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Default I may have a problem with SFJ men......

    I have noticed lately that I have a hard time getting along with them.

    Latest incident- I'm here at work, and an ISTP and I were discussing our volleyball game later on today. It's supposed to be hot- like 90 degrees, so in his typical ISTP way, he comes over and asks me what do we do when it's that hot. I said "just try not to die". 27 y/o ESFJ who sits across from me yells out to not say that, that it was mean.

    There's another late 40s ESFJ who sits next to him, and we clash. Strong discussions and disagreements happen as a normal part of the work we do. For some reason, I'm the worst person he has ever worked with.

    My ISFJ friends calls me black-hearted. He thinks I joke too harshly and don't have a feeling bone in my body.

    While I don't dislike any of these guys, I do find their Fe judgements to be extreme, imposing, impractical, and sometimes just plain dumb. It's irritating.

    It's not Fe. I have an ENFJ boy here at work who is has grown to be a good friend. We get along great- he has an awesome sense of humor- sometimes we don't have to say a thing and we're on the same wavelength- and start rolling. He has a way with dealing with people where they open up to him. But don't get it twisted- his Fe doesn't impel him to be overly nice to people he finds annoying.

    While some specific females SFJ females can irritate me, it's not an issue with them.

    I'm not hating on SJ types either (I'm one); I'm just expressing a pattern I've noticed and was looking for a little discussion on it.

  2. #2
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    SFJ male, reporting in!

    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I have noticed lately that I have a hard time getting along with them.

    Latest incident- I'm here at work, and an ISTP and I were discussing our volleyball game later on today. It's supposed to be hot- like 90 degrees, so in his typical ISTP way, he comes over and asks me what do we do when it's that hot. I said "just try not to die". 27 y/o ESFJ who sits across from me yells out to not say that, that it was mean.
    I would have just laughed your remark off or I would have said something along the lines of, "Well yes there's that but do you have any other suggestions or possible different location?".

    Not sure why the ESFJ would have said that.

    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    There's another late 40s ESFJ who sits next to him, and we clash. Strong discussions and disagreements happen as a normal part of the work we do. For some reason, I'm the worst person he has ever worked with.
    What's like has happen, IMHO, is that he's developed judgements against you and has held onto them for quite sometime. Most xSTJ men that I know are usually fresh out of fucks to give if someone doesn't like them so what happens next depends on how you want to handle this. Obviously you're going to likely to have to keep working with this guy so it might be in your best advantage to try and sit down and hash things out with him. It's your call though.

    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    My ISFJ friends calls me black-hearted. He thinks I joke too harshly and don't have a feeling bone in my body.
    I used to think this way about ISTJ and INTJ men that I ran into in my life. Getting to know some of them, I've come to discover that the accusation of being "black-hearted" is just not true at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    While I don't dislike any of these guys, I do find their Fe judgements to be extreme, imposing, impractical, and sometimes just plain dumb. It's irritating.
    I would surmise they may feel the same about your Te judgements

    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    It's not Fe. I have an ENFJ boy here at work who is has grown to be a good friend. We get along great- he has an awesome sense of humor- sometimes we don't have to say a thing and we're on the same wavelength- and start rolling. He has a way with dealing with people where they open up to him. But don't get it twisted- his Fe doesn't impel him to be overly nice to people he finds annoying.
    This is again likely because while he's an Fe-dom, his other functions are different than his ESFJ peers. Also, not all ENFJs/ESFJs/ISFJs are the same. Some are more balanced or developed than others and you may have a case of of just dealing with some guys who have shit they need to get worked out.

    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I'm not hating on SJ types either (I'm one); I'm just expressing a pattern I've noticed and was looking for a little discussion on it.
    Certainly!

    Some of the most epic battles I've ever gotten into were with other SJs. Some of the most heated arguments I've gotten into at work was with my ESTJ superiors and that's because he wanted things done one way but I was firmly convinced that the way I was going to do it was better or the way he wanted to do it wasn't going to work.

    When two SJs clash the terms "Irresistible Force" and "Immovable Object" come to mind. SJ men can and often are, in my humble estimate, some of the most stubborn bastards you'll ever run across. It isn't because we're closed minded or anything like that, it's just because the opinions we have are formed based an on ass-load of personal experience and a whole lot deep thought and consideration. As such, if you tell me that I'm screwing up or that I need to do something differently, you damned well better have a good explanation as to why or I'm going to shut you down.

    Now, as for my own feelings on your situation: xSFJ men I think have to face the world a little differently than xSTJ men because xSTJ men tend to fit in more snuggly with society and it's predefined terms of how men are supposed to be. xSFJ men on the other hand are usually a lot more sensitive and emotional than their xSTJ counterparts but we have to be very careful about how we express that side of ourselves. Some xSFJ men I've noticed tend to have an easier time balancing and juggling their emotions better than others. I myself tend to take an almost Vulcan-like approach to my own emotions as I know most people expect me to behave and act in a certain manner.

    One of the things I had to learn though is that there are a lot of people in this world who are very blunt and/or will not sugarcoat the things they say. It could be because their apathetic toward the feelings of others or they just don't see the need to think about how the things they are saying may or may not be interpreted by the other party or they just flat think that what they are saying is perfectly fine.

    Initally I felt like these people needed to adjust the things they said or the way they expressed themselves to accomodate for the feelings of others but then I came to realize that it wasn't something that I could always expect. The world, as much as I'd rather it do otherwise, does not revolve around me or my personal whims or desires

    As such, I got to work on developing a thicker skin and I've been at that for the past few years or so. I'm a lot tougher than I used to be but every now and then someone will say something that they think is innocuous that will have me arching my back and hissing like a cat.

    By the same token, I don't think it will kill the xSTJs of the world to realize the world doesn't work the way they want it too and that they too are going to need to give a little as well.

    tl;dr: Your xSFJ friends/co-workers need to grow a pair, suck it up, and get a little tougher and it might not hurt for you to work on your sensitivity.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  3. #3
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    I do too. I keep wanting to sleep with them.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Keps Mnemnosyne's Avatar
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    The comment rendered to be a joke and taken wrongly by the ESFJ could mean:

    A. He is sensitive about jokes involving death. Some people find morbid humor hilarious, others find it unacceptable. Or you use this type of humor 'too often' and is considered annoying.
    B. There is some other issue at work in which it is being expressed through antagonism.
    C. Plausible, but unlikely possibilities, so why type them?

    Having two SFJ coworkers having problems with you and a SFJ friend who calls you black hearted may be coincidental and be an individual problem to each person. Determine if you have an overarching problem. If you do, I would suggest to have a serious conversation asking your ISFJ friend why he calls you black-hearted and why he is your friend despite that.

    I will say I do disagree IZ of your coworkers' opinions of you as your behavior on this forum has seemed fairly nice and I'm slightly surprised to see you having problems specifically with SFJs. I do hope you will find your situation improved.
    Love wouldn't exist without loneliness to inspire it.

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  5. #5
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keps Mnemnosyne View Post
    The comment rendered to be a joke and taken wrongly by the ESFJ could mean:

    A. He is sensitive about jokes involving death. Some people find morbid humor hilarious, others find it unacceptable. Or you use this type of humor 'too often' and is considered annoying.
    B. There is some other issue at work in which it is being expressed through antagonism.
    C. Plausible, but unlikely possibilities, so why type them?

    Having two SFJ coworkers having problems with you and a SFJ friend who calls you black hearted may be coincidental and be an individual problem to each person. Determine if you have an overarching problem. If you do, I would suggest to have a serious conversation asking your ISFJ friend why he calls you black-hearted and why he is your friend despite that.

    I will say I do disagree IZ of your coworkers' opinions of you as your behavior on this forum has seemed fairly nice and I'm slightly surprised to see you having problems specifically with SFJs. I do hope you will find your situation improved.
    The same nicehearted ESFJ I work with has no problem dishing out the racist jokes.

    Also a strong belief that Asians cannot drive.

    So it's crazy for him to express that judgement yet curse out every Indian person that is going slower than he wants.

    My group @ work is pretty cool. It's male dominated so our topics and jokes can be bar and locker room sometime. While he's not likely to bring it up (Fe) he'll play along once he sees a topic is acceptable. I can pick that up because usually he'll make some ill-timed joke about something we laughed about earlier, sometimes his version is more crass. LOL it's funny.

    I think it boils down to my choice of words/phrashing vs their level of perception. Not all SFJs I run into are like that but I do notice that I have this problem most with these types.

  6. #6
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I do too. I keep wanting to sleep with them.
    You let them Fe all over you.......

  7. #7
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I do too. I keep wanting to sleep with them.
    The feeling is mutual

    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    You let them Fe all over you.......
    Ok, this just sounds really dirty....
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  8. #8
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keps Mnemnosyne View Post
    I would suggest to have a serious conversation asking your ISFJ friend why he calls you black-hearted and why he is your friend despite that.
    Yes, THIS. He'll have to decide if he's really having that big of a problem with you or not if you pose this to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    You let them Fe all over you.......
    Is there something wrong with doing that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    You let them Fe all over you.......
    I do. And I shamelessly love it.

  10. #10
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    I feel sorry for IZ. This sounds like a really hard situation. I wouldn't want to be in it.

    IZ, do you point out when the ISFJ is being racist and stuff?

    Have you ever asked the ISFJ if he could keep his value statements to himself? Well, uhh, on second thought, I'm pretty sure you'd never asked that, but for what it's worth, it'd probably make him stop.

    I think when you get two ISxx's together, the level of communication can be really bad, which is disappointing for me considering that I seem to be most drawn to them.

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