[MBTI General] I may have a problem with SFJ men......

[Giggly]

Well I'm pretty sure it was easy with my ESFJ ex because he had an Ne tertiary temptation pretty badly just like I am with my Te, sometimes he overestimated his abilities with it, and he could come over-reliant on it, getting in an Fe/Ne loop, and let me tell you people in Fe/Ne loops are kinda scary.

Interesting. What do Fe/Ne loops look like?

I liked him much better when he balanced the Fe/Ne with Si, he was much more sane, but I think Ne was a real bonding point for us, and probably why we could have four hour conversations, excitedly feeding off each others ideas and comments, bantering back and forth, blah blah blah...sometimes to the point of talking over each other. It drove his mother c-r-a-z-y. I think it also started arguments between us sometimes though, that's the only bad thing.

lol, I did this with my ENTP friend. We hardly talk now but when we did, we'd talk for hours and hours and it was effortless. We had a few arguments (and they were pretty ugly :horor but most of the time we enjoy each other.

JTG1984 has a lot of Ne for an ISFJ which is why I think there were people who actually believed he was ENTP trolling as ISFJ, et al.

It was more that he was so provocative. Even I had a moment where I wondered that. lol

I think someone with a lot of Ne (Ne dom/aux, like NPs) are the people who have the easiest time bringing it out, just like SJs can bring out my Si, I swear. They're like bonding points. It's like being balanced by a person who understands a hidden part of you.

I don't know how I do it, anyway, I don't have a method. I'm just saying it does happen.

I think this is likely what happens but the two people can only appreciate it if they are open to being balanced.

 

[InTheFlesh]

I have noticed lately that I have a hard time getting along with them.

Latest incident- I'm here at work, and an ISTP and I were discussing our volleyball game later on today. It's supposed to be hot- like 90 degrees, so in his typical ISTP way, he comes over and asks me what do we do when it's that hot. I said "just try not to die". 27 y/o ESFJ who sits across from me yells out to not say that, that it was mean.

There's another late 40s ESFJ who sits next to him, and we clash. Strong discussions and disagreements happen as a normal part of the work we do. For some reason, I'm the worst person he has ever worked with.

My ISFJ friends calls me black-hearted. He thinks I joke too harshly and don't have a feeling bone in my body.

While I don't dislike any of these guys, I do find their Fe judgements to be extreme, imposing, impractical, and sometimes just plain dumb. It's irritating.

It's not Fe. I have an ENFJ boy here at work who is has grown to be a good friend. We get along great- he has an awesome sense of humor- sometimes we don't have to say a thing and we're on the same wavelength- and start rolling. He has a way with dealing with people where they open up to him. But don't get it twisted- his Fe doesn't impel him to be overly nice to people he finds annoying.

While some specific females SFJ females can irritate me, it's not an issue with them.

I'm not hating on SJ types either (I'm one); I'm just expressing a pattern I've noticed and was looking for a little discussion on it.

Your work place seems like a generic sitcom.
I couldn't help but laugh when I envisioned someone interrupting your conversation to tell you that you were being rude.

 

[Thalassa]

Interesting. What do Fe/Ne loops look like?

Sort of ENFP-ish but WAY TOO EXTROVERTED IF THEY STAY THERE, like extroverting to the point of not reflecting inward, or being grounded or balanced. It's just like if I try to live in a Ne/Te loop I look more like an ExTJ and I'm very overbearing and running from myself. It's seriously unhealthy to stay in a dom/tert loop for an extended period of time, but I think it's much more normal and common to do it periodically in shorter bursts.

The thing with my ex is that he would do it too much. Simulated World calls Fe/Ne (or Ne/Fe) a narcissistic loop and I fucking believe it. Ne/Te (or Te/Ne) is borderline.

lol, I did this with my ENTP friend. We hardly talk now but when we did, we'd talk for hours and hours and it was effortless. We had a few arguments (and they were pretty ugly :horor but most of the time we enjoy each other.

so you understand!

It was more that he was so provocative. Even I had a moment where I wondered that. lol

Yeah...Ne is what made him provocative "if I do this, I wonder what will happen" and messing with people for the hell of it, is just like an ENTP in a Ne/Fe loop, which is what can make them so playful and so irritating at times.

When JTG is in his Ne he says that he can't help but fuck with people, like something switches in his brain. Seems like a Fe/Ne loop to me.

I enjoy it because I secretly like Ne related squabbling, it keeps me on my toes.

But JTG also does things like just throws weird random ideas out there and he'll get in these silly moods, and yeah he's in touch with his Ne. I think it's because his mommy is INTP.

I think this is likely what happens but the two people can only appreciate it if they are open to being balanced.

I agree. It doesn't work for everyone. It just works for me as an ENFP who values my Si. ENFPs who are hostile or indifferent to their Si may not have the same experience.

 

[Giggly]

Your work place seems like a generic sitcom.
I couldn't help but laugh when I envisioned someone interrupting your conversation to tell you that you were being rude.

He should totally write a script like The Office.

Sort of ENFP-ish but WAY TOO EXTROVERTED IF THEY STAY THERE, like extroverting to the point of not reflecting inward, or being grounded or balanced. It's just like if I try to live in a Ne/Te loop I look more like an ExTJ and I'm very overbearing and running from myself. It's seriously unhealthy to stay in a dom/tert loop for an extended period of time, but I think it's much more normal and common to do it periodically in shorter bursts.

Lovely. I must have some family members who live in this Fe/Ne loop then.

so you understand!

Yup.

Yeah...Ne is what made him provocative "if I do this, I wonder what will happen" and messing with people for the hell of it, is just like an ENTP in a Ne/Fe loop, which is what can make them so playful and so irritating at times.

When JTG is in his Ne he says that he can't help but fuck with people, like something switches in his brain. Seems like a Fe/Ne loop to me

Is there a difference between Ne/Fe loop and Fe/Ne loop?

But JTG also does things like just throws weird random ideas out there and he'll get in these silly moods, and yeah he's in touch with his Ne. I think it's because his mommy is INTP.

I do this too.

I agree. It doesn't work for everyone. It just works for me as an ENFP who values my Si. ENFPs who are hostile or indifferent to their Si may not have the same experience.

I've noticed. My ENTP friend is very open-minded and on occasion tests ENFP.

 

[Thalassa]

Lovely. I must have some family members who live in this Fe/Ne loop then.

My ex would start acting arrogant and be way too focused on the moment, to the point I'm (yes even me) was like..."are you not learning from your mistakes? WTF?" ...the weird part is though, when he's being "normal" (sane, balanced, whatever) he'd employ Si in an almost extreme way, being very cautious, being protective of me, and he's always been a lot more "rooted" in one place than me, like he must have his routines and his familiar faces and a great deal of security. He's definitely ESFJ but it was like he could get in Fe/Ne and stay there for days, weeks, and a person like that is volatile, because of the lack of introspection and the fact that they're pretty much running from a crucial part of themselves.

Is there a difference between Ne/Fe loop and Fe/Ne loop?

I think Ne/Fe is a little more distanced from the Fe, while Fe is still playing a major role in Fe/Ne, but they are similar.

I do this too.

I've noticed. My ENTP friend is very open-minded though and on occasion tests ENFP.

Cool.

 

[Giggly]

My ex would start acting arrogant and be way too focused on the moment, to the point I'm (yes even me) was like..."are you not learning from your mistakes? WTF?" ...the weird part is though, when he's being "normal" (sane, balanced, whatever) he'd employ Si in an almost extreme way, being very cautious, being protective of me, and he's always been a lot more "rooted" in one place than me, like he must have his routines and his familiar faces and a great deal of security. He's definitely ESFJ but it was like he could get in Fe/Ne and stay there for days, weeks, and a person like that is volatile, because of the lack of introspection and the fact that they're pretty much running from a crucial part of themselves.

Heeeee! I'm getting a kick out of imagining this. Poor Marm.

I think Ne/Fe is a little more distanced from the Fe, while Fe is still playing a major role in Fe/Ne, but they are similar.

In that case I like Ne/Fe loop better, if I had to pick one to be tormented stuck with.

 

[Thalassa]

Heeeee! I'm getting a kick out of imagining this. Poor Marm.

It was amusing when would preach to me about "new" things, like music or movies, like preaching to me about newness is like preaching to the choir.

Not so amusing when he was blindly detatched from his inner self and operating on active auto-pilot. The funny thing is I think we kind of understood each other because of my Ne/Te loops...when I was younger I would disengage from my Fi to protect myself and it was almost like I was disassociated from myself and my morality and my feelings.

He would occasionally cry sometimes when he snapped out if it and say things like "I know inside that it's not right and it's like I can't stop myself, once it starts I keep it going because I'm so ashamed of what I'm doing I make it worse." It's so weird, because I knew exactly what he meant.

Being in an extroverted loop for any extended period of time basically equals being a bull in a china shop.

In that case I like Ne/Fe loop better, if I had to pick one to be tormented stuck with.

I don't know I think I deal with the Fe/Ne loop better because some sense of morality or connecting to other people is at the forefront rather than viewing them as objects, which occasionally happens with ENTPs in an especially bad Ne/Fe loop, which is why their type is sometimes associated with sociopaths.

But yeah with Fe first in the Fe/Ne loop you're probably going to get a lot more emotional acting out and drama, while with Ne/Fe you'll just be teased and manipulated to death.

 

[redcheerio]

Speaking as an SJ with lots of Ne, you really just have to get them in a particular mood, get them to be comfortable with you, and then banter with them. Although I'm sure you know how hard it is to predict when Ne shows up in a person...

Hm, that's true. Cool! Maybe I have done it before and didn't recognize/ think of it that way at the time.

...Man, I wish Ne could be controlled.

Oh yeah, me too.... It probably can be, but takes a lot of practice.... :workout:

Well I'm pretty sure it was easy with my ESFJ ex because he had an Ne tertiary temptation pretty badly just like I am with my Te, sometimes he overestimated his abilities with it, and he could come over-reliant on it, getting in an Fe/Ne loop, and let me tell you people in Fe/Ne loops are kinda scary.

I liked him much better when he balanced the Fe/Ne with Si, he was much more sane, but I think Ne was a real bonding point for us, and probably why we could have four hour conversations, excitedly feeding off each others ideas and comments, bantering back and forth, blah blah blah...sometimes to the point of talking over each other. It drove his mother c-r-a-z-y. I think it also started arguments between us sometimes though, that's the only bad thing.

JTG1984 has a lot of Ne for an ISFJ which is why I think there were people who actually believed he was ENTP trolling as ISFJ, et al.

I think someone with a lot of Ne (Ne dom/aux, like NPs) are the people who have the easiest time bringing it out, just like SJs can bring out my Si, I swear. They're like bonding points. It's like being balanced by a person who understands a hidden part of you.

I don't know how I do it, anyway, I don't have a method. I'm just saying it does happen.

Huh, interesting!

Interesting. What do Fe/Ne loops look like?

lol, I did this with my ENTP friend. We hardly talk now but when we did, we'd talk for hours and hours and it was effortless. We had a few arguments (and they were pretty ugly :horor but most of the time we enjoy each other.

I think this is likely what happens but the two people can only appreciate it if they are open to being balanced.

Sort of ENFP-ish but WAY TOO EXTROVERTED IF THEY STAY THERE, like extroverting to the point of not reflecting inward, or being grounded or balanced. It's just like if I try to live in a Ne/Te loop I look more like an ExTJ and I'm very overbearing and running from myself. It's seriously unhealthy to stay in a dom/tert loop for an extended period of time, but I think it's much more normal and common to do it periodically in shorter bursts.

The thing with my ex is that he would do it too much. Simulated World calls Fe/Ne (or Ne/Fe) a narcissistic loop and I fucking believe it. Ne/Te (or Te/Ne) is borderline.

Yeah...Ne is what made him provocative "if I do this, I wonder what will happen" and messing with people for the hell of it, is just like an ENTP in a Ne/Fe loop, which is what can make them so playful and so irritating at times.

When JTG is in his Ne he says that he can't help but fuck with people, like something switches in his brain. Seems like a Fe/Ne loop to me.

I enjoy it because I secretly like Ne related squabbling, it keeps me on my toes.

But JTG also does things like just throws weird random ideas out there and he'll get in these silly moods, and yeah he's in touch with his Ne. I think it's because his mommy is INTP.

I agree. It doesn't work for everyone. It just works for me as an ENFP who values my Si. ENFPs who are hostile or indifferent to their Si may not have the same experience.

Being in an extroverted loop for any extended period of time basically equals being a bull in a china shop.

I don't know I think I deal with the Fe/Ne loop better because some sense of morality or connecting to other people is at the forefront rather than viewing them as objects, which occasionally happens with ENTPs in an especially bad Ne/Fe loop, which is why their type is sometimes associated with sociopaths.

But yeah with Fe first in the Fe/Ne loop you're probably going to get a lot more emotional acting out and drama, while with Ne/Fe you'll just be teased and manipulated to death.

Wow. Those were some interesting insights I'd never heard of before, thanks!

 

[Giggly]

Being in an extroverted loop for any extended period of time basically equals being a bull in a china shop.

I don't know I think I deal with the Fe/Ne loop better because some sense of morality or connecting to other people is at the forefront rather than viewing them as objects, which occasionally happens with ENTPs in an especially bad Ne/Fe loop, which is why their type is sometimes associated with sociopaths.

But yeah with Fe first in the Fe/Ne loop you're probably going to get a lot more emotional acting out and drama, while with Ne/Fe you'll just be teased and manipulated to death.

Ahh, good observations.

 

[redcheerio]

Sort of ENFP-ish but WAY TOO EXTROVERTED IF THEY STAY THERE, like extroverting to the point of not reflecting inward, or being grounded or balanced. It's just like if I try to live in a Ne/Te loop I look more like an ExTJ and I'm very overbearing and running from myself. It's seriously unhealthy to stay in a dom/tert loop for an extended period of time, but I think it's much more normal and common to do it periodically in shorter bursts.

Yeah...Ne is what made him provocative "if I do this, I wonder what will happen" and messing with people for the hell of it, is just like an ENTP in a Ne/Fe loop, which is what can make them so playful and so irritating at times.

Here's some insight I'd like to understand better. It seems common that we ENTPs don't have a very good understanding of when we've crossed the line from playful to irritating. I know I don't.

It took meeting other ENTPs in person and being painfully honest with myself to realize that I could possibly be annoying sometimes.

So what are some clues that we're crossing that line? I'm guessing we can push the line a bit further out by first getting people to like us and understand where we're coming from, right? What about people who just get annoyed by our existence? Is there any hope for reconciliation with them?

It seems like as an adult I get along pretty easily with about 99% of the population, while about 1% hates my guts no matter what I do.

 

[Thalassa]

Here's some insight I'd like to understand better. It seems common that we ENTPs don't have a very good understanding of when we've crossed the line from playful to irritating. I know I don't.

It took meeting other ENTPs in person and being painfully honest with myself to realize that I could possibly be annoying sometimes.

So what are some clues that we're crossing that line? I'm guessing we can push the line a bit further out by first getting people to like us and understand where we're coming from, right? What about people who just get annoyed by our existence? Is there any hope for reconciliation with them?

It seems like as an adult I get along pretty easily with about 99% of the population, while about 1% hates my guts no matter what I do.

Oh if you're aware of this you must have good Fe, which I've noticed in a number of female ENTPs (don't know if you're male or female).

I'm pretty sure irritating ENTPs know they're being irritating, and it delights them.

I still find them strangely lovable though. Two of the ENTPs I clashed the most with on this site I also have affection for.

 

[redcheerio]

Oh if you're aware of this you must have good Fe, which I've noticed in a number of female ENTPs (don't know if you're male or female).

I'm pretty sure irritating ENTPs know they're being irritating, and it delights them.

I still find them strangely lovable though. Two of the ENTPs I clashed the most with on this site I also have affection for.

Thanks, and yep, I'm female. (Hope the avatar isn't too misleading, I just used it because someone posted it in another thread and it cracked me up so I couldn't resist.)

While it may be true that some ENTPs delight in irritating people, I think for others it's more a case that they are too caught up amusing themselves to realize that they are irritating other people.

So I would guess that it starts out as amusing ourselves in some way that happens to irritate others, and from there, it's a matter of whether a) we recognize that what we're doing is irritating others, b) deciding whether that bothers us, and c) deciding whether to change our behavior accordingly. I think irritating others is the byproduct that we're not always aware of, and that some just say fuck it and go on doing it anyway.

I usually would prefer not to irritate others, but if I think someone is being a jerk or unfair by getting irritated with me, then I'll take the fuck-it route, too.

PS - I think it's mutual, I usually find ENFPs pretty lovable, too. One of my besties is ENFP. In fact, I was about to give her a call.

 

[Thalassa]

Thanks, and yep, I'm female. (Hope the avatar isn't too misleading, I just used it because someone posted it in another thread and it cracked me up so I couldn't resist.)

While it may be true that some ENTPs delight in irritating people, I think for others it's more a case that they are too caught up amusing themselves to realize that they are irritating other people.

So I would guess that it starts out as amusing ourselves in some way that happens to irritate others, and from there, it's a matter of whether a) we recognize that what we're doing is irritating others, b) deciding whether that bothers us, and c) deciding whether to change our behavior accordingly. I think irritating others is the byproduct that we're not always aware of, and that some just say fuck it and go on doing it anyway.

I usually would prefer not to irritate others, but if I think someone is being a jerk or unfair by getting irritated with me, then I'll take the fuck-it route, too.

PS - I think it's mutual, I usually find ENFPs pretty lovable, too. One of my besties is ENFP. In fact, I was about to give her a call.

Oh I think ENFPs fuck with people too...for some reason I think this is nature of Ne to entertain ourselves in this fashion...I've just had ENTPs persistently mess with me because they knew it made me squirm...and keep pushing...and keep pushing...I've had SFJ guys do this too (but they cave more easily, they show how amused they are or feel guilty or something unless they truly hate you). ENTPs remind me more of a scientist with a lab rat, "ooh look at it squirm!"

I only do this to people when I feel like they deserve it, or if they need to learn some crucial lesson they seem to have missed along the way. I like to poke people, but I'm not going to put people in tears, and I don't think some *immature, mostly male* ENTPs mind doing that at all.

 

[redcheerio]

Oh I think ENFPs fuck with people too...for some reason I think this is nature of Ne to entertain ourselves in this fashion...I've just had ENTPs persistently mess with me because they knew it made me squirm...and keep pushing...and keep pushing...I've had SFJ guys do this too (but they cave more easily, they show how amused they are or feel guilty or something unless they truly hate you). ENTPs remind me more of a scientist with a lab rat, "ooh look at it squirm!"

I only do this to people when I feel like they deserve it, or if they need to learn some crucial lesson they seem to have missed along the way. I like to poke people, but I'm not going to put people in tears, and I don't think some *immature, mostly male* ENTPs mind doing that at all.

Hm, makes sense.

For me, when I push people, it's usually not so much because I like making them squirm (although I've been guilty of that before, too), but more that I think they have a blind spot about something and I'm trying to expose it to them. The very reason it's a blind spot is because it makes them uncomfortable to look there.

But yes, there is also the ENTP tendency for one-upping, which can part of it, too. Even that is sometimes intentional and sometimes not.

 

[Thalassa]

Hm, makes sense.

For me, when I push people, it's usually not so much because I like making them squirm (although I've been guilty of that before, too), but more that I think they have a blind spot about something and I'm trying to expose it to them. The very reason it's a blind spot is because it makes them uncomfortable to look there.

Yeah I actually identify with the bolded. I do the same.

But yes, there is also the ENTP tendency for one-upping, which can part of it, too. Even that is sometimes intentional and sometimes not.

I don't know some ENTPs are perfectly wonderful, and I will argue with people and I have no problem with that.

I think it's the "I'm right, you're wrong, ha ha ha you're a feeler" thing that gets old. And not every ENTP does that, I just want to clarify.

 

[Giggly]

Hm, makes sense.

For me, when I push people, it's usually not so much because I like making them squirm (although I've been guilty of that before, too), but more that I think they have a blind spot about something and I'm trying to expose it to them. The very reason it's a blind spot is because it makes them uncomfortable to look there.

A blind spot? This is not true. Perhaps they have already looked at this spot and made a decision about it that just happens to be different than yours.

My perception based on the ENTP I know is that they don't know that they are being irritating at first and then soon realize that they are, and deliberately prod the SJ because they think the SJ is wrong. Which of course then turns into teasing for the ENTPs own amusement (because they are silly/playful like that). Which irritates the SJ even more and makes them more stubborn... which then turns into a big ol' stupid battle of the wills.

Hopefully this doesn't happen often and drain away at the relationship but after a few occasions of this they both learn how to work out disagreements in a way that is more reverent and open-minded to each other. It takes dedication and focus though so at the very least you have to value/care about each other.

 

[redcheerio]

Yeah I actually identify with the bolded. I do the same.

Yeah, I think ENTPs and ENFPs both like the challenge of arguments/ discussions sometimes involving disagreement and learning, partly because it's fun sharing insights, and partly because we keep learning other people's insights this way. Is that how it is for you, too?

I don't know some ENTPs are perfectly wonderful, and I will argue with people and I have no problem with that.

I think it's the "I'm right, you're wrong, ha ha ha you're a feeler" thing that gets old. And not every ENTP does that, I just want to clarify.

It's true, I do see a lot of that from ENTPs, and from Ts in general. I'm sure it must be especially annoying for Fs to put up with. Ts act like they're intellectually superior because they're T, which of course is a fallacy. People just like to have reasons to feel superior to others, so they look for excuses like that.

 

[redcheerio]

Hm, makes sense.

For me, when I push people, it's usually not so much because I like making them squirm (although I've been guilty of that before, too), but more that I think they have a blind spot about something and I'm trying to expose it to them. The very reason it's a blind spot is because it makes them uncomfortable to look there.

But yes, there is also the ENTP tendency for one-upping, which can part of it, too. Even that is sometimes intentional and sometimes not.

A blind spot? This is not true. Perhaps they have already looked at this spot and made a decision about it that just happens to be different than yours.

Well that's true, and a great point.

My perception based on the ENTP I know is that they don't know that they are being irritating at first and then soon realize that they are, and deliberately prod the SJ because they think the SJ is wrong. Which of course then turns into teasing for the ENTPs own amusement (because they are silly/playful like that). Which irritates the SJ even more and makes them more stubborn... which then turns into a big ol' stupid battle of the wills.

Hm, yeah, that makes sense. I think another part of the reason ENTPs like to push is because we want to learn from others, so push them to explain themselves so that we can understand their perspective better. For me, it bugs me when I don't understand someone else's perspective, so I prod them to explain it so that I can understand it. I think that since a lot of people are unable or unwilling to explain or articulate the reasoning behind their opinions, being prodded this way is annoying or frustrating for them.

Whether the ENTP realizes they are being irritating or not, once they reach the point where the other person is unable or unwilling to explain their viewpoint, the ENTP prods a bit more in hopes of getting a better explanation out of them, and if it doesn't work, then they switch to teasing in attempt to keep it good-natured. Some ENTPs also use that to feel like they've "won" or one-upped the other person, but I think the initial intent is to try to figure people and their opinions out like puzzles.

Hopefully this doesn't happen often and drain away at the relationship but after a few occasions of this they both learn how to work out disagreements in a way that is more reverent and open-minded to each other. It takes dedication and focus though so at the very least you have to value/care about each other.

That's a good point, and something that usually takes time for ENTPs to figure out. So we end up being annoying as young people, and perhaps much easier to be around as we become more seasoned, mature, and secure enough in ourselves to resist the urge for one-upping people. It takes us awhile to realize how much we do it, though, since some of what we do is perceived that way when it wasn't intended that way. I think it comes from the Ne tendency to love always reaching and stretching for the next thing, if that makes any sense.

 

[Thalassa]

Yeah, I think ENTPs and ENFPs both like the challenge of arguments/ discussions sometimes involving disagreement and learning, partly because it's fun sharing insights, and partly because we keep learning other people's insights this way. Is that how it is for you, too?

Yes that's exactly how it is. It can be exciting and challenging to disagree, and I learn sometimes from arguments. And sometimes it's just fun to banter and go back and forth with the verbal barbs, I'm not going to lie. It depends on how mean it gets, though, past a certain point of cruelty or nitpicking it's no longer fun for me and just seems mean and unnecessary.

Yes, I do like to argue with NTs a lot, but I also feel like they're the ones most likely to cross the line into being truly mean, for some reason, at least on forums. I'm pretty tough too, I'm not a "fragile" NF by any means. I just think at a point it just becomes degrading.

It's true, I do see a lot of that from ENTPs, and from Ts in general. I'm sure it must be especially annoying for Fs to put up with. Ts act like they're intellectually superior because they're T, which of course is a fallacy. People just like to have reasons to feel superior to others, so they look for excuses like that.

Yes, this has happened to me. Sometimes the T is super-intelligent and they do have something to teach me, sometimes we're equally intelligent and just see things from a different angle (and they're disregarding mine because it's a Feeler/relationship/ethical angle)....and occasionally I feel as though the NT isn't very bright, and they're totally wrong, and that's the most frustrating...there's nothing like a not-very-bright or incorrect NT who still thinks he or she is smarter than you.

 

[Thalassa]

Oh dear you guys are gonna be pissed, but I think I've been talking about an ISTJ all along.

Heh.

The stuff I said about Ne still applies.

*runs and hides*