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  1. #61
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Well I'm pretty sure it was easy with my ESFJ ex because he had an Ne tertiary temptation pretty badly just like I am with my Te, sometimes he overestimated his abilities with it, and he could come over-reliant on it, getting in an Fe/Ne loop, and let me tell you people in Fe/Ne loops are kinda scary.
    Interesting. What do Fe/Ne loops look like?

    I liked him much better when he balanced the Fe/Ne with Si, he was much more sane, but I think Ne was a real bonding point for us, and probably why we could have four hour conversations, excitedly feeding off each others ideas and comments, bantering back and forth, blah blah blah...sometimes to the point of talking over each other. It drove his mother c-r-a-z-y. I think it also started arguments between us sometimes though, that's the only bad thing.
    lol, I did this with my ENTP friend. We hardly talk now but when we did, we'd talk for hours and hours and it was effortless. We had a few arguments (and they were pretty ugly :horor but most of the time we enjoy each other.

    JTG1984 has a lot of Ne for an ISFJ which is why I think there were people who actually believed he was ENTP trolling as ISFJ, et al.
    It was more that he was so provocative. Even I had a moment where I wondered that. lol


    I think someone with a lot of Ne (Ne dom/aux, like NPs) are the people who have the easiest time bringing it out, just like SJs can bring out my Si, I swear. They're like bonding points. It's like being balanced by a person who understands a hidden part of you.

    I don't know how I do it, anyway, I don't have a method. I'm just saying it does happen.
    I think this is likely what happens but the two people can only appreciate it if they are open to being balanced.

  2. #62
    Senior Member InTheFlesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I have noticed lately that I have a hard time getting along with them.

    Latest incident- I'm here at work, and an ISTP and I were discussing our volleyball game later on today. It's supposed to be hot- like 90 degrees, so in his typical ISTP way, he comes over and asks me what do we do when it's that hot. I said "just try not to die". 27 y/o ESFJ who sits across from me yells out to not say that, that it was mean.

    There's another late 40s ESFJ who sits next to him, and we clash. Strong discussions and disagreements happen as a normal part of the work we do. For some reason, I'm the worst person he has ever worked with.

    My ISFJ friends calls me black-hearted. He thinks I joke too harshly and don't have a feeling bone in my body.

    While I don't dislike any of these guys, I do find their Fe judgements to be extreme, imposing, impractical, and sometimes just plain dumb. It's irritating.

    It's not Fe. I have an ENFJ boy here at work who is has grown to be a good friend. We get along great- he has an awesome sense of humor- sometimes we don't have to say a thing and we're on the same wavelength- and start rolling. He has a way with dealing with people where they open up to him. But don't get it twisted- his Fe doesn't impel him to be overly nice to people he finds annoying.

    While some specific females SFJ females can irritate me, it's not an issue with them.

    I'm not hating on SJ types either (I'm one); I'm just expressing a pattern I've noticed and was looking for a little discussion on it.
    Your work place seems like a generic sitcom.
    I couldn't help but laugh when I envisioned someone interrupting your conversation to tell you that you were being rude.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Interesting. What do Fe/Ne loops look like?
    Sort of ENFP-ish but WAY TOO EXTROVERTED IF THEY STAY THERE, like extroverting to the point of not reflecting inward, or being grounded or balanced. It's just like if I try to live in a Ne/Te loop I look more like an ExTJ and I'm very overbearing and running from myself. It's seriously unhealthy to stay in a dom/tert loop for an extended period of time, but I think it's much more normal and common to do it periodically in shorter bursts.

    The thing with my ex is that he would do it too much. Simulated World calls Fe/Ne (or Ne/Fe) a narcissistic loop and I fucking believe it. Ne/Te (or Te/Ne) is borderline.



    lol, I did this with my ENTP friend. We hardly talk now but when we did, we'd talk for hours and hours and it was effortless. We had a few arguments (and they were pretty ugly :horor but most of the time we enjoy each other.
    so you understand!


    It was more that he was so provocative. Even I had a moment where I wondered that. lol
    Yeah...Ne is what made him provocative "if I do this, I wonder what will happen" and messing with people for the hell of it, is just like an ENTP in a Ne/Fe loop, which is what can make them so playful and so irritating at times.

    When JTG is in his Ne he says that he can't help but fuck with people, like something switches in his brain. Seems like a Fe/Ne loop to me.

    I enjoy it because I secretly like Ne related squabbling, it keeps me on my toes.

    But JTG also does things like just throws weird random ideas out there and he'll get in these silly moods, and yeah he's in touch with his Ne. I think it's because his mommy is INTP.


    I think this is likely what happens but the two people can only appreciate it if they are open to being balanced.
    I agree. It doesn't work for everyone. It just works for me as an ENFP who values my Si. ENFPs who are hostile or indifferent to their Si may not have the same experience.

  4. #64
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheFlesh View Post
    Your work place seems like a generic sitcom.
    I couldn't help but laugh when I envisioned someone interrupting your conversation to tell you that you were being rude.
    He should totally write a script like The Office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Sort of ENFP-ish but WAY TOO EXTROVERTED IF THEY STAY THERE, like extroverting to the point of not reflecting inward, or being grounded or balanced. It's just like if I try to live in a Ne/Te loop I look more like an ExTJ and I'm very overbearing and running from myself. It's seriously unhealthy to stay in a dom/tert loop for an extended period of time, but I think it's much more normal and common to do it periodically in shorter bursts.
    Lovely. I must have some family members who live in this Fe/Ne loop then.

    so you understand!
    Yup.

    Yeah...Ne is what made him provocative "if I do this, I wonder what will happen" and messing with people for the hell of it, is just like an ENTP in a Ne/Fe loop, which is what can make them so playful and so irritating at times.

    When JTG is in his Ne he says that he can't help but fuck with people, like something switches in his brain. Seems like a Fe/Ne loop to me
    Is there a difference between Ne/Fe loop and Fe/Ne loop?


    But JTG also does things like just throws weird random ideas out there and he'll get in these silly moods, and yeah he's in touch with his Ne. I think it's because his mommy is INTP.
    I do this too.


    I agree. It doesn't work for everyone. It just works for me as an ENFP who values my Si. ENFPs who are hostile or indifferent to their Si may not have the same experience.
    I've noticed. My ENTP friend is very open-minded and on occasion tests ENFP.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Lovely. I must have some family members who live in this Fe/Ne loop then.
    My ex would start acting arrogant and be way too focused on the moment, to the point I'm (yes even me) was like..."are you not learning from your mistakes? WTF?" ...the weird part is though, when he's being "normal" (sane, balanced, whatever) he'd employ Si in an almost extreme way, being very cautious, being protective of me, and he's always been a lot more "rooted" in one place than me, like he must have his routines and his familiar faces and a great deal of security. He's definitely ESFJ but it was like he could get in Fe/Ne and stay there for days, weeks, and a person like that is volatile, because of the lack of introspection and the fact that they're pretty much running from a crucial part of themselves.

    Is there a difference between Ne/Fe loop and Fe/Ne loop?
    I think Ne/Fe is a little more distanced from the Fe, while Fe is still playing a major role in Fe/Ne, but they are similar.

    I do this too.


    I've noticed. My ENTP friend is very open-minded though and on occasion tests ENFP.
    Cool.

  6. #66
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    My ex would start acting arrogant and be way too focused on the moment, to the point I'm (yes even me) was like..."are you not learning from your mistakes? WTF?" ...the weird part is though, when he's being "normal" (sane, balanced, whatever) he'd employ Si in an almost extreme way, being very cautious, being protective of me, and he's always been a lot more "rooted" in one place than me, like he must have his routines and his familiar faces and a great deal of security. He's definitely ESFJ but it was like he could get in Fe/Ne and stay there for days, weeks, and a person like that is volatile, because of the lack of introspection and the fact that they're pretty much running from a crucial part of themselves.
    Heeeee! I'm getting a kick out of imagining this. Poor Marm.



    I think Ne/Fe is a little more distanced from the Fe, while Fe is still playing a major role in Fe/Ne, but they are similar.
    In that case I like Ne/Fe loop better, if I had to pick one to be tormented stuck with.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Heeeee! I'm getting a kick out of imagining this. Poor Marm.
    It was amusing when would preach to me about "new" things, like music or movies, like preaching to me about newness is like preaching to the choir.

    Not so amusing when he was blindly detatched from his inner self and operating on active auto-pilot. The funny thing is I think we kind of understood each other because of my Ne/Te loops...when I was younger I would disengage from my Fi to protect myself and it was almost like I was disassociated from myself and my morality and my feelings.

    He would occasionally cry sometimes when he snapped out if it and say things like "I know inside that it's not right and it's like I can't stop myself, once it starts I keep it going because I'm so ashamed of what I'm doing I make it worse." It's so weird, because I knew exactly what he meant.

    Being in an extroverted loop for any extended period of time basically equals being a bull in a china shop.



    In that case I like Ne/Fe loop better, if I had to pick one to be tormented stuck with.
    I don't know I think I deal with the Fe/Ne loop better because some sense of morality or connecting to other people is at the forefront rather than viewing them as objects, which occasionally happens with ENTPs in an especially bad Ne/Fe loop, which is why their type is sometimes associated with sociopaths.

    But yeah with Fe first in the Fe/Ne loop you're probably going to get a lot more emotional acting out and drama, while with Ne/Fe you'll just be teased and manipulated to death.

  8. #68
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post


    Speaking as an SJ with lots of Ne, you really just have to get them in a particular mood, get them to be comfortable with you, and then banter with them. Although I'm sure you know how hard it is to predict when Ne shows up in a person...
    Hm, that's true. Cool! Maybe I have done it before and didn't recognize/ think of it that way at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    ...Man, I wish Ne could be controlled.
    Oh yeah, me too.... It probably can be, but takes a lot of practice.... :workout:


    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Well I'm pretty sure it was easy with my ESFJ ex because he had an Ne tertiary temptation pretty badly just like I am with my Te, sometimes he overestimated his abilities with it, and he could come over-reliant on it, getting in an Fe/Ne loop, and let me tell you people in Fe/Ne loops are kinda scary.

    I liked him much better when he balanced the Fe/Ne with Si, he was much more sane, but I think Ne was a real bonding point for us, and probably why we could have four hour conversations, excitedly feeding off each others ideas and comments, bantering back and forth, blah blah blah...sometimes to the point of talking over each other. It drove his mother c-r-a-z-y. I think it also started arguments between us sometimes though, that's the only bad thing.

    JTG1984 has a lot of Ne for an ISFJ which is why I think there were people who actually believed he was ENTP trolling as ISFJ, et al.

    I think someone with a lot of Ne (Ne dom/aux, like NPs) are the people who have the easiest time bringing it out, just like SJs can bring out my Si, I swear. They're like bonding points. It's like being balanced by a person who understands a hidden part of you.

    I don't know how I do it, anyway, I don't have a method. I'm just saying it does happen.
    Huh, interesting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Interesting. What do Fe/Ne loops look like?

    lol, I did this with my ENTP friend. We hardly talk now but when we did, we'd talk for hours and hours and it was effortless. We had a few arguments (and they were pretty ugly :horor but most of the time we enjoy each other.

    I think this is likely what happens but the two people can only appreciate it if they are open to being balanced.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Sort of ENFP-ish but WAY TOO EXTROVERTED IF THEY STAY THERE, like extroverting to the point of not reflecting inward, or being grounded or balanced. It's just like if I try to live in a Ne/Te loop I look more like an ExTJ and I'm very overbearing and running from myself. It's seriously unhealthy to stay in a dom/tert loop for an extended period of time, but I think it's much more normal and common to do it periodically in shorter bursts.

    The thing with my ex is that he would do it too much. Simulated World calls Fe/Ne (or Ne/Fe) a narcissistic loop and I fucking believe it. Ne/Te (or Te/Ne) is borderline.

    Yeah...Ne is what made him provocative "if I do this, I wonder what will happen" and messing with people for the hell of it, is just like an ENTP in a Ne/Fe loop, which is what can make them so playful and so irritating at times.

    When JTG is in his Ne he says that he can't help but fuck with people, like something switches in his brain. Seems like a Fe/Ne loop to me.

    I enjoy it because I secretly like Ne related squabbling, it keeps me on my toes.

    But JTG also does things like just throws weird random ideas out there and he'll get in these silly moods, and yeah he's in touch with his Ne. I think it's because his mommy is INTP.

    I agree. It doesn't work for everyone. It just works for me as an ENFP who values my Si. ENFPs who are hostile or indifferent to their Si may not have the same experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Being in an extroverted loop for any extended period of time basically equals being a bull in a china shop.

    I don't know I think I deal with the Fe/Ne loop better because some sense of morality or connecting to other people is at the forefront rather than viewing them as objects, which occasionally happens with ENTPs in an especially bad Ne/Fe loop, which is why their type is sometimes associated with sociopaths.

    But yeah with Fe first in the Fe/Ne loop you're probably going to get a lot more emotional acting out and drama, while with Ne/Fe you'll just be teased and manipulated to death.
    Wow. Those were some interesting insights I'd never heard of before, thanks!

  9. #69
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Being in an extroverted loop for any extended period of time basically equals being a bull in a china shop.

    I don't know I think I deal with the Fe/Ne loop better because some sense of morality or connecting to other people is at the forefront rather than viewing them as objects, which occasionally happens with ENTPs in an especially bad Ne/Fe loop, which is why their type is sometimes associated with sociopaths.

    But yeah with Fe first in the Fe/Ne loop you're probably going to get a lot more emotional acting out and drama, while with Ne/Fe you'll just be teased and manipulated to death.
    Ahh, good observations.

  10. #70
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Sort of ENFP-ish but WAY TOO EXTROVERTED IF THEY STAY THERE, like extroverting to the point of not reflecting inward, or being grounded or balanced. It's just like if I try to live in a Ne/Te loop I look more like an ExTJ and I'm very overbearing and running from myself. It's seriously unhealthy to stay in a dom/tert loop for an extended period of time, but I think it's much more normal and common to do it periodically in shorter bursts.

    Yeah...Ne is what made him provocative "if I do this, I wonder what will happen" and messing with people for the hell of it, is just like an ENTP in a Ne/Fe loop, which is what can make them so playful and so irritating at times.
    Here's some insight I'd like to understand better. It seems common that we ENTPs don't have a very good understanding of when we've crossed the line from playful to irritating. I know I don't.

    It took meeting other ENTPs in person and being painfully honest with myself to realize that I could possibly be annoying sometimes.

    So what are some clues that we're crossing that line? I'm guessing we can push the line a bit further out by first getting people to like us and understand where we're coming from, right? What about people who just get annoyed by our existence? Is there any hope for reconciliation with them?

    It seems like as an adult I get along pretty easily with about 99% of the population, while about 1% hates my guts no matter what I do.

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