[SJ] My theory on why SJs are perceived as closed minded

[Elfboy]

obviously, anyone who knows about MBTI knows that all SJs are not rigid, closed minded bureaucrats. what is different about them than say, ENTPs, is that it takes more energy to process new ideas and information. an SJ who is confronted with lots of change and new information is like "whoa! slow down, I need time to process this!"
NPs can completely change vast amounts of previously known information in effortlessly and in seconds, but Si is sort of a "foundation" type of function. for ENTPs, changing information is as easy as driving and making a left turn. for an SJ, changing information is like remodeling a house. you need to rework things from the foundation and make sure everything is still sturdy and solid. for example, an ISTJ needs a lot of time alone to process, except and work new information into the basic foundation of their life and their beliefs.
so, coming back to my point, close mindedness in SJs comes for the same reason that avoiding work does for NPs, laziness. SJs become closed minded and bureaucratic when they don't take the time to consider the new information and except that some new information may potentially better. as about 45% of the population is SJ and a large percentage of people are lazy, it's no surprise that there is a lot of overlap, hence, a lot of rigid SJs. this leads people to make the generalization that being an SJs are naturally close minded, but correlation doesn't equal causation.
anyway, just a theory, feel free to make a counterpoint

 

[InvisibleJim]

People accuse others of being closed minded when those others do not agree with them. It's a weakness of the accuser, not the accused.

 

[011235813]

for example, an ISTJ needs a lot of time alone to process, except and work new information into the basic foundation of their life and their beliefs.

Replace the letters STJ with NFP and I am positive that most members of my type will also identify strongly with the statement you just made.

 

[Elfboy]

Replace the letters STJ with NFP and I am positive that most members of my type will also identify strongly with the statement you just made.

actually, ENFPs can usually do this rather quickly

 

[tinker683]

Wow.

This thread should be entertaining. We have wild-ass assumptions, broad generalizations, and bogus logic.

I look forward to some of the other responses from my other SJs. As for me, I need to get ready for work

 

[Elfboy]

Wow.

This thread should be entertaining. We have wild-ass assumptions, broad generalizations, and bogus logic.

I look forward to some of the other responses from my other SJs. As for me, I need to get ready for work

I stated in both in the title and the original post that this is a theory, which by it's very nature makes it the opposite of an assumption as it is tentative, open to change and specifically looking for counter arguments and contrary information. as such, feel free to disagree and post your thoughts when you get back from work

 

[011235813]

actually, ENFPs can usually do this rather quickly

I was actually talking about INFPs in my post.

Speaking from the POV of a self-typed INFP, I don't necessarily process tons of information effortlessly at lightning speed as you seem to suggest that all NPs do. I like being able to pick and choose what data I want to turn over in my head and examine more closely, and I get cranky when I have to deal with an overload of things I don't want to think about.

Leaving personal anecdotal information aside, I'm unconvinced that comparing an ENTP to an ISTJ and then extrapolating those individual types' experiences as representative of an entire temperament's behavior is very useful. Of course Pe doms and Pi doms are going to have different strategies for taking in information. This is not sufficient basis for making a case for entire temperaments.

 

[Haven]

I read it once, I had a response, then I read it again, and now I don't know what this is about. Can you be a little more explicit? What makes SJs close minded? What kind of information are we talking about that SJs are supposed to resist more?

 

[Orangey]

SJs are perceived as closed-minded because people on this forum type those who disagree with them/those who they feel are closed-minded for whatever stupid personal reasons as SJs.

 

[ICUP]

Many SJ's aren't interested in changing their views. ISTJ's, for example, can be quite traditional. From their considerations, a "better" idea to you isn't necessarily a better idea to them. They can process the information and come to an understanding, but they aren't interested in changing their views, as many SP's are. It has nothing to do with laziness in many cases. Many SJ's I know do what is accepted socially and/or traditionally, and don't care about what is "true". New information won't change them, but it doesn't mean they don't read and work to understand the new information.

Yes, it has been annoying in the past when I showed a couple of SJ's new information and they didn't change a thing lol..... but that's just how they are. The ones I know aren't necessarily lazy, just uninterested.

 

[Thalassa]

I've encountered INTJs and ENTJs who are excessively convinced that they are "right" to the point of resorting to trolling, ignoring, or making fun of anyone who disagrees with them or presents different information.

INFPs can also have very rigid Fi values...in fact, any type can be rigid about something. I will stand my ground over certain issues, yes I will, depending on how the person approaches me. I can be totally open minded to certain things, but crack down on other issues.

I know SJs are who are more open-minded than you would think, too, being very open to new music, avant garde cinema, art, atheism, etc. ...depends on how they were raised, their level of intelligence, and how much information they've been exposed to.

Younger SJs are exposed to more information than older SJs were, therefore they have a broader range of Si impressions. You should keep this in mind when trying to seperate a 60 year old SJ who has never left their small WASP-y town in Montana, and a 28 year old SJ from a major U.S. city.

 

[cascadeco]

for an SJ, changing information is like remodeling a house. you need to rework things from the foundation and make sure everything is still sturdy and solid. for example, an ISTJ needs a lot of time alone to process, except and work new information into the basic foundation of their life and their beliefs.

Si and Ni I think are similar in this respect, in a dominant position especially; once an introverted perception is honed in on and judgment made accordingly, then it'll take a while to revamp that entire worldview if new info comes to the surface. I know it's been discussed on this forum in many Ni threads that it can take a while to reallign internal worlds. Basically I think this applies to all IxxJ's - IxxJ's aren't known for being good at on-the-fly processing and sudden shifts in worldviews -- assuming they've concluded something. And the 'needing processing time' thing applies to pretty much every introvert - it just might be triggered by different things.

 

[Mal12345]

People accuse others of being closed minded when those others do not agree with them. It's a weakness of the accuser, not the accused.

When someone like an ISTJ habitually responds to every new idea, no matter how benign, with skepticism, then this is just a learned response pattern. And yes it does drive other people crazy, kind of like if I was always cracking my knuckles in your presence until you were finally tempted to break my fingers.

Yes, blaming the victim of skepticism or whatever is a common social game these days. But we can't always be in a mood to play along with the ISTJ's control games. Eventually, they have an effect not unlike Chinese water torture.

 

[Thalassa]

When someone like an ISTJ habitually responds to every new idea, no matter how benign, with skepticism, then this is just a learned response pattern. And yes it does drive other people crazy, kind of like if I was always cracking my knuckles in your presence until you were finally tempted to break my fingers.

Yes, blaming the victim of skepticism or whatever is a common social game these days. We can't always be in a mood to play along with the ISTJ's control games. Eventually, it becomes something not unlike Chinese water torture.

I think it makes them feel "in control."

 

[Lady_X]

Replace the letters STJ with NFP and I am positive that most members of my type will also identify strongly with the statement you just made.

actually, ENFPs can usually do this rather quickly

i think enfps can sometimes take awhile to sort out our feeling about something but as far as idea generators no not so much...i mean...a decision based on those ideas could take awhile but the idea and processing machine works super fast.

 

[Thalassa]

i think enfps can sometimes take awhile to sort out our feeling about something but as far as idea generators no not so much...i mean...a decision based on those ideas could take awhile but the idea and processing machine works super fast.

Yes, I process ideas quickly, but when it comes to personal or emotional things I process more slowly I think, like I can even react when I'm mad, but have a totally different opinion the next day.

ENFPs, though, because of Fi values will have certain things that will be No Nos. Like for me one of my main things is when I feel anyone is taking advantage of or scamming or exploiting someone weaker...that is my principal value outside of my personal feeings about things, so that will show up VICIOUSLY sometimes in my politics and what have you.

Still, I will process new information and if it's presented in an objective or kind way (rather than condescending or rude) I will be more open to it...like I can sit and agree with a Republican or a Libertarian and be open to some of their reasoning if they're respectful about it or are supplying me with actual information (rather than their opinion) which helps me to see.

On other things, I can have a terrible time making a decision. I can take forever on many things to even decide. I also try to see things from other people's points of view, and something can happen and I won't even take sides or judge, I'll just kind of live and let live.

Except for those BIG ISSUES.

That's why I say anyone can be "closed minded" or rigid about something. The vast majority of people value something.

 

[Lady_X]

yeah...i'm a bit closed minded when it comes to things that matter enormously to me...not that i will say anothers perspective is wrong if it differs...just...don't you dare debate me on this!

 

[guesswho]

You still haven't made a video!

 

[redacted]

I dont see why NJs would be any less closed minded than SJs...

It's pretty hard to define closed-mindedness, though. I get way more frustrated talking about new things with some of the NFPs I know than any J type

 

[OrangeAppled]

People overrate "open-mindedness" also. Being open-minded can also mean being wishy-washy, unsure of what you believe, easily swayed by others, etc.
P types seem more open-minded, but this can also make them unstable, finding it difficult to commit & see things through. Conversely, "close-mindedness" can just mean knowing what you want/need/believe & taking some kind of stand for it, not being easily swayed. That creates stability & structure, which is what Js like to do. Of course, Ps do take a stand on things, but they'll act more defensively than offensively, just as Js can become open, but they have to be persuaded to open; they're not open by default like Ps often are.

But it's all a matter of perspective anyway. My ESFP sister can seem close-minded because she refuses to consider hypothetical ideas as valid. To her, it's silly. It's not "real". I seem close-minded to her because I refuse to compromise on my core ideals at times, when to her, it's simply a realistic approach to do so. So even Ps can see each other as closed & Js can see Ps as closed.