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  1. #11
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    I've encountered INTJs and ENTJs who are excessively convinced that they are "right" to the point of resorting to trolling, ignoring, or making fun of anyone who disagrees with them or presents different information.

    INFPs can also have very rigid Fi values...in fact, any type can be rigid about something. I will stand my ground over certain issues, yes I will, depending on how the person approaches me. I can be totally open minded to certain things, but crack down on other issues.

    I know SJs are who are more open-minded than you would think, too, being very open to new music, avant garde cinema, art, atheism, etc. ...depends on how they were raised, their level of intelligence, and how much information they've been exposed to.

    Younger SJs are exposed to more information than older SJs were, therefore they have a broader range of Si impressions. You should keep this in mind when trying to seperate a 60 year old SJ who has never left their small WASP-y town in Montana, and a 28 year old SJ from a major U.S. city.

  2. #12
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    for an SJ, changing information is like remodeling a house. you need to rework things from the foundation and make sure everything is still sturdy and solid. for example, an ISTJ needs a lot of time alone to process, except and work new information into the basic foundation of their life and their beliefs.
    Si and Ni I think are similar in this respect, in a dominant position especially; once an introverted perception is honed in on and judgment made accordingly, then it'll take a while to revamp that entire worldview if new info comes to the surface. I know it's been discussed on this forum in many Ni threads that it can take a while to reallign internal worlds. Basically I think this applies to all IxxJ's - IxxJ's aren't known for being good at on-the-fly processing and sudden shifts in worldviews -- assuming they've concluded something. And the 'needing processing time' thing applies to pretty much every introvert - it just might be triggered by different things.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    People accuse others of being closed minded when those others do not agree with them. It's a weakness of the accuser, not the accused.
    When someone like an ISTJ habitually responds to every new idea, no matter how benign, with skepticism, then this is just a learned response pattern. And yes it does drive other people crazy, kind of like if I was always cracking my knuckles in your presence until you were finally tempted to break my fingers.

    Yes, blaming the victim of skepticism or whatever is a common social game these days. But we can't always be in a mood to play along with the ISTJ's control games. Eventually, they have an effect not unlike Chinese water torture.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    When someone like an ISTJ habitually responds to every new idea, no matter how benign, with skepticism, then this is just a learned response pattern. And yes it does drive other people crazy, kind of like if I was always cracking my knuckles in your presence until you were finally tempted to break my fingers.

    Yes, blaming the victim of skepticism or whatever is a common social game these days. We can't always be in a mood to play along with the ISTJ's control games. Eventually, it becomes something not unlike Chinese water torture.
    I think it makes them feel "in control."

  5. #15
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza_tema View Post
    Replace the letters STJ with NFP and I am positive that most members of my type will also identify strongly with the statement you just made.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    actually, ENFPs can usually do this rather quickly
    i think enfps can sometimes take awhile to sort out our feeling about something but as far as idea generators no not so much...i mean...a decision based on those ideas could take awhile but the idea and processing machine works super fast.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    i think enfps can sometimes take awhile to sort out our feeling about something but as far as idea generators no not so much...i mean...a decision based on those ideas could take awhile but the idea and processing machine works super fast.
    Yes, I process ideas quickly, but when it comes to personal or emotional things I process more slowly I think, like I can even react when I'm mad, but have a totally different opinion the next day.

    ENFPs, though, because of Fi values will have certain things that will be No Nos. Like for me one of my main things is when I feel anyone is taking advantage of or scamming or exploiting someone weaker...that is my principal value outside of my personal feeings about things, so that will show up VICIOUSLY sometimes in my politics and what have you.

    Still, I will process new information and if it's presented in an objective or kind way (rather than condescending or rude) I will be more open to it...like I can sit and agree with a Republican or a Libertarian and be open to some of their reasoning if they're respectful about it or are supplying me with actual information (rather than their opinion) which helps me to see.

    On other things, I can have a terrible time making a decision. I can take forever on many things to even decide. I also try to see things from other people's points of view, and something can happen and I won't even take sides or judge, I'll just kind of live and let live.

    Except for those BIG ISSUES.

    That's why I say anyone can be "closed minded" or rigid about something. The vast majority of people value something.

  7. #17
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    yeah...i'm a bit closed minded when it comes to things that matter enormously to me...not that i will say anothers perspective is wrong if it differs...just...don't you dare debate me on this!
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #18
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    You still haven't made a video!

  9. #19
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    I dont see why NJs would be any less closed minded than SJs...

    It's pretty hard to define closed-mindedness, though. I get way more frustrated talking about new things with some of the NFPs I know than any J type

  10. #20
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    People overrate "open-mindedness" also. Being open-minded can also mean being wishy-washy, unsure of what you believe, easily swayed by others, etc.
    P types seem more open-minded, but this can also make them unstable, finding it difficult to commit & see things through. Conversely, "close-mindedness" can just mean knowing what you want/need/believe & taking some kind of stand for it, not being easily swayed. That creates stability & structure, which is what Js like to do. Of course, Ps do take a stand on things, but they'll act more defensively than offensively, just as Js can become open, but they have to be persuaded to open; they're not open by default like Ps often are.

    But it's all a matter of perspective anyway. My ESFP sister can seem close-minded because she refuses to consider hypothetical ideas as valid. To her, it's silly. It's not "real". I seem close-minded to her because I refuse to compromise on my core ideals at times, when to her, it's simply a realistic approach to do so. So even Ps can see each other as closed & Js can see Ps as closed.
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