[SJ] My theory on why SJs are perceived as closed minded

[Elfboy]

Is today Pick On Elfboy Day? I wasn't notified...

Well, ENFPs are "the most introverted extroverts", aren't they?

I suspect he's not using the same definition of class as you... I could be wrong, though.

I'd say Xi in general can bring a certain close-mindedness in unhealthy individuals...

I suspect that has a lot to do with descriptions of Threes being very unflattering... That's a common problem with online E-Type profiles.

What was that "tolerance" thing again?

thanks bro
PS: I'm more convinced you're INFP now. that was some pretty impressive Te

 

[SRT]

I've never liked that SJs are lumped together as traditional (either politically or personally). How much of an impact does the culture you were raised in have on how you express your personality? What if an ISTJ was raised in a "liberal" household in a "liberal" state. Wouldn't acting "liberal" be following tradition for them?

I think its been said earlier, but if you're told to think SJs are closed minded (or exhibit traits you associate with that) you're just going to label anyone who you think is closed minded as an SJ. Same goes for any other type with other "traits". That's the trouble with using behavior as a type indicator, it doesn't seem to take into account the motivation for the behavior.

And Elfboy has so much Fi and Ne that the only legit alternative option for his type is INFP.

I guess.

 

[Elfboy]

I've never liked that SJs are lumped together as traditional (either politically or personally). How much of an impact does the culture you were raised in have on how you express your personality? What if an ISTJ was raised in a "liberal" household in a "liberal" state. Wouldn't acting "liberal" be following tradition for them?

I think its been said earlier, but if you're told to think SJs are closed minded (or exhibit traits you associate with that) you're just going to label anyone who you think is closed minded as an SJ. Same goes for any other type with other "traits". That's the trouble with using behavior as a type indicator, it doesn't seem to take into account the motivation for the behavior.

exactly, that's why I don't like assigning political affiliations to types in particular, even if I have noticed correlations

 

[EJCC]

that's ESTJ? sounds exactly like what I'm thinking when someone questions my opinions. maybe we're more alike than I realized

Yeah. Same functions. If you want to know what's ESTJ, maybe you should read some of my thread The link's in my sig.

I agree with most of your post, thankyou for continually bringing us back to the initial topic

That's what Te doms are for!

I've never liked that SJs are lumped together as traditional (either politically or personally). How much of an impact does the culture you were raised in have on how you express your personality? What if an ISTJ was raised in a "liberal" household in a "liberal" state. Wouldn't acting "liberal" be following tradition for them?

I think its been said earlier, but if you're told to think SJs are closed minded (or exhibit traits you associate with that) you're just going to label anyone who you think is closed minded as an SJ. Same goes for any other type with other "traits". That's the trouble with using behavior as a type indicator, it doesn't seem to take into account the motivation for the behavior.

What in the world is going on in here?

Any type can be close minded.

EJCC's post above reminds me of her very patient explanation to me of the whole ESTJ "of course what I believe is right; if I thought it was wrong, I'd believe something else. So, convince me I'm wrong and I'll change my mind" mindset. It makes perfect sense, but seems so foreign to me.

I sometimes feel that, as an INFP, I allocate parts of my mind to provisionally believing (or at least seeing the perspective of) the truth the other is offering. It doesn't mean I really believe whatever-it-is to be true, but I can see how it might be true, or could be seen as true. It can sometimes lead to the other person thinking you agree with them, unless one clarifies periodically.

That ESTJ directness seems awfully blunt and refreshing, once one understands where it is coming from. Hearing "I think X is right" from an ESTJ is not necessarily the end of the discussion.

+1 to the three of you! Excellent posts.

 

[Little Linguist]

No problems. I seem very young to a lot of people. I don't want to give up my fun yet haha. (Plus, I've never been married and have no kids, so I wasn't forced to grow up). The name is just my silly, clownish stuff ........ Yes, I am very kiddish irl too. I collect stuffed animals and use them as puppets lmfao. I have a serious side too; I just tend not to show it often online. That's playtime! LoL.

I WUV YOU!!!!!!!!! <333333333 Seriously, I'm the same way. ***bounces around***

 

[Thalassa]

Very egotistical, very condescending, convinced that they have no feelings, etc. Like an ISFJ in shadow mode - a quasiENTP. That's why you're getting all the Ne, and not in Grade A form.

I've observed something like this too, for shizzle.

 

[Little Linguist]

that's ESTJ? sounds exactly like what I'm thinking when someone questions my opinions. maybe we're more alike than I realized

"of course what I believe is right; if I thought it was wrong, I'd believe something else. So, convince me I'm wrong and I'll change my mind"

Bingo.

I'd be a moron to believe something I know is wrong just for my own personal....gratification? Idiocy? Um, yeah, no.

 

[Thalassa]

this is just intuition speaking, but I think you just think I'm an ISFJ 6 because you don't like me

WTH. How do you know she doesn't like ISFJs?

I like ISFJs.

If you presume people call you ISFJ because they don't like you, that's your issue, not theirs.

I only get pissed when guys say chicks are SFJs if they don't want to fuck them. I mean, seriously dudes, just accept she might not be attracted to you or she finds your personality obnoxious. Every woman who doesn't want to sleep with you, specifically, isn't an SFJ. Maybe you were deluding yourself when you thought she was flirting with you. Maybe she was just trying to be nice. Whatever.

But aside from that, calling someone an ISFJ is not an "insult." That's a flaw in your thinking, Elfboy, not MrCockburn's.

 

[Little Linguist]

WTH. How do you know she doesn't like ISFJs?

I like ISFJs.

If you presume people call you ISFJ because they don't like you, that's your issue, not theirs.

I only get pissed when guys say chicks are SFJs if they don't want to fuck them. I mean, seriously dudes, just accept she might not be attracted to you or she finds your personality obnoxious. Every woman who doesn't want to sleep with you, specifically, isn't an SFJ. Maybe you were deluding yourself when you thought she was flirting with you. Maybe she was just trying to be nice. Whatever.

But aside from that, calling someone an ISFJ is not an "insult." That's a flaw in your thinking, Elfboy, not MrCockburn's.

That's pretty presumptuous? Doesn't want to sleep = XSFJ? Being monogamous or careful about whom you sleep with is SFJ? Then I wanna be SFJ.

 

[Thalassa]

That's pretty presumptuous? Doesn't want to sleep = XSFJ? Being monogamous or careful about whom you sleep with is SFJ? Then I wanna be SFJ.

LOL.

Also, she thinks you're (pick one or more): ugly/twitchy/stupid/an alcoholic/annoying/nerdy/mean/overly nice/have bad breath/are a womanizer.

I mean, come on, there are a MULTITUDE OF REASONS why a woman wouldn't sleep with a guy. A lot of women are nice then men mistake it for flirting.

A woman could even be promiscuous and not want to sleep with you.

Nothing to do with being xSFJ. Nada.

 

[mrcockburn]

this is just intuition speaking, but I think you just think I'm an ISFJ 6 because you don't like me

No; my opinion of you has nothing to do with it. I think you're an ISFJ 6 for the reasons I stated before. I'm not repeating myself. Go back a few pages and look it up yourself.

Quite telling that you take being typed ISFJ as an insult. It's not an insult, it's an observation.

 

[mrcockburn]

WTH. How do you know she doesn't like ISFJs?

I like ISFJs.

If you presume people call you ISFJ because they don't like you, that's your issue, not theirs.

I only get pissed when guys say chicks are SFJs if they don't want to fuck them. I mean, seriously dudes, just accept she might not be attracted to you or she finds your personality obnoxious. Every woman who doesn't want to sleep with you, specifically, isn't an SFJ. Maybe you were deluding yourself when you thought she was flirting with you. Maybe she was just trying to be nice. Whatever.

But aside from that, calling someone an ISFJ is not an "insult." That's a flaw in your thinking, Elfboy, not MrCockburn's.

I love ISFJs. I've got one a-snoozin' right behind me (a friend, had too much to drink ).

However, just like any type when unhealthy, I notice they exhibit certain behaviors when they're not right upstairs - they act like unpalatable ENTPs. And those specific behaviors are what I was likening to Elfboy, a possibility of a shadow type.

 

[King sns]

Like Marm has said before, ENFP's don't walk around with this fragile attitude that only very specific people can approach them. They are very people/ relationship driven. Want to know more deeply into the dynamics of people and want to have relationships with them. Not shoo them away. I actually (sadly enough) see a side of myself in you. Though I see 4, not 7. Someone who is driven by individuality and finding their place. Concern with yourself and yourself only, not others.

What was that "tolerance" thing again?

Touche. However, I'm self centered and blame it on the strong fourish influence. (I claim rights to judging people that are like myself, kind of like how it's acceptable in society for certain races to make certain racial slurs, as long as it's their own. ) It takes one to know one .

 

[esidebill]

I love ISFJs. I've got one a-snoozin' right behind me (a friend, had too much to drink ).

However, just like any type when unhealthy, I notice they exhibit certain behaviors when they're not right upstairs - they act like unpalatable ENTPs. And those specific behaviors are what I was likening to Elfboy, a possibility of a shadow type.

Ew, run for cover! Hide your kids, hide your wife! Haha.

 

[Elfboy]

I love ISFJs. I've got one a-snoozin' right behind me (a friend, had too much to drink ).

However, just like any type when unhealthy, I notice they exhibit certain behaviors when they're not right upstairs - they act like unpalatable ENTPs. And those specific behaviors are what I was likening to Elfboy, a possibility of a shadow type.

you've still failed to mention any kind of Fe or Ti. surface actions are a poor indication of type by themselves.

 

[CzeCze]

Mod Note

Just dropping in to remind folks of the thin line between tough love and just ganging up on someone.

Here's hugs for all of you to get the ball rolling.