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  1. #111
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    bingo! this is part of what the OP was getting at. ENTPs and ENFPs don't fall into close minded thought patterns when lazy, SJs often do, but SJs that are balanced and are willing to take the mental energy to consider new contrary to what they already think are no more closed minded than other cognitively balanced people.
    It really doesn't take that much energy. It's not even remotely draining. I'm starting to think that either everyone's overestimating the amount of "processing time" it takes for SJs to deal with contradictory information, or ESTJs are just different from all the other SJs in this regard. I swear, if you give me enough concrete and trustworthy evidence, I'd believe anything. And AGAIN - I keep mentioning this and no one addresses it* - the average Ni type is just as closed-minded, if not more so.

    Also, I disagree with the bolded. I've seen this interaction with ENFPs on multiple occasions:
    ENFP: This is true, this is false.
    Other person: Actually... *insert contrary facts here*
    ENFP: Oh, well of COURSE that's true. What I MEANT to say was that this is true MOST of the time, and this is OFTEN false.
    Other person: Actually... *more facts*

    And I would argue, Elfboy, that your interactions with shortnsweet and others, earlier in the thread, are also examples of this - namely, how you made a fairly lazy blanket statement about how you dislike 80% of SJs, and then clarified (and backpedaled) the hell out of it.

    For the record, though, that's probably more to do with Ne than anything else.

    PS: however, ENTPs can ENFPs can display closed minded tendencies under high levels of stress
    As can every type.

    *Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Yeah but you're skipping over all of those self-congratulatory closed-minded NTJs, too.
    Exactly!!
    You can't just contrast ENFP and ISTJ. That's not objective or fair. It's not even about being "nice" or "tolerant"...it's not even fucking logical.
    No, it's logical. Because what he's really doing is contrasting himself with ISTJs.
    Did you see the ISTP just call us all sociopaths? Have you not missed how closed minded you can be? The stuff you've said in this thread I commented on was pretty outrageously closed-minded.

    Si does have a particular inflexibility, but so does Ni in a way, as someone has already pointed out. Except in Ni doms we just call it "being delusional."
    When you really SHOULD call it being closed-minded. Except for that one time when the poster formerly known as BlueWing decided that SJs were "less evolved" than NTs. That was completely delusional. And funny, in a sad sort of way.
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  2. #112
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    bingo! this is part of what the OP was getting at. smart people don't fall into close minded thought patterns when lazy, idiots often do, but idiots that are balanced and are willing to take the mental energy to consider new contrary to what they already think are no more closed minded than other cognitively balanced people.
    PS: however, smart people can display closed minded tendencies under high levels of stress
    Here, I fixed that for you.
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  3. #113
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    It really doesn't take that much energy. It's not even remotely draining. I'm starting to think that either everyone's overestimating the amount of "processing time" it takes for SJs to deal with contradictory information, or ESTJs are just different from all the other SJs in this regard. I swear, if you give me enough concrete and trustworthy evidence, I'd believe anything. And AGAIN - I keep mentioning this and no one addresses it* - the average Ni type is just as closed-minded, if not more so.

    Also, I disagree with the bolded. I've seen this interaction with ENFPs on multiple occasions:
    ENFP: This is true, this is false.
    Other person: Actually... *insert contrary facts here*
    ENFP: Oh, well of COURSE that's true. What I MEANT to say was that this is true MOST of the time, and this is OFTEN false.
    Other person: Actually... *more facts*

    And I would argue, Elfboy, that your interactions with shortnsweet and others, earlier in the thread, are also examples of this - namely, how you made a fairly lazy blanket statement about how you dislike 80% of SJs, and then clarified (and backpedaled) the hell out of it.
    bolded: I would argue a little bit of both. ESTJs have Te as their first function and Ne as their 3rd, so they're likely able to process new live information extremely quickly. you're also right about the first part, the earlier responses to this thread (before all the conspiracy about "what is Elfboy REALLY thinking") showed there were clear flaws in my theory.
    PS: guilty as charged, the example you sited is extremely common among ENFPs. this is more of a problem with wording than anything else though. ENFPs by nature almost never make black and white generalizations in our thoughts and beliefs, but we often word them in ways that make them sound like they are (I brought this up earlier in the thread with Marm saying that my ideas are apparently miscommunicated because I don't word properly). the idea of correlation does not equal causation is rather implied for us, we just tend to word things in ways that sound like causes to other people when we need to state clearly that they're loose correlations (at least, myself and most of the ENFPs I've observed seem to struggle at least a little bit with this).
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  4. #114
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Here, I fixed that for you.
    no you didn't. idiots who are balanced and willing to take the time and energy to examine new information are not idiots.
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  5. #115
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    FWIW Elfboy, you remind me a lot of several ISFJs - male ISFJs. So you better make sure you're not that type before you go around making backhanded remarks about them.

    And like fuck you're a 3w4...that's my e-type, and 3's don't have issues with lacking friends, quite the opposite, really. Sounds more like some kind of 4w5 thing, though you strike me more as a counterphobic 6. And it's not that you're so elite and picky, really. No one was even approaching you to begin with, right?
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  6. #116
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    FWIW Elfboy, you remind me a lot of several ISFJs - male ISFJs. So you better make sure you're not that type before you go around making backhanded remarks about them.

    And like fuck you're a 3w4...that's my e-type, and 3's don't have issues with lacking friends, quite the opposite, really. Sounds more like some kind of 4w5 thing, though you strike me more as a counterphobic 6. And it's not that you're so elite and picky, really. No one was even approaching you to begin with, right?
    where did I backhand ISFJs? the only things I've said about them are that
    1) they can get on my nerves when they're overlly passive
    and
    2) they make wonderful friends because they're loyal, forgiving and affectionate
    PS: I seem like an ISFJ? if I were to name the type I see the least of in myself, that would probably be it
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  7. #117
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    And like fuck you're a 3w4...that's my e-type, and 3's don't have issues with lacking friends, quite the opposite, really. Sounds more like some kind of 4w5 thing, though you strike me more as a counterphobic 6. And it's not that you're so elite and picky, really. No one was even approaching you to begin with, right?
    actually, a lot of people have approached me in the past. apparently my personality is very entertaining and charismatic, but I found their attention offensive, so I shoooed them away. I don't relate to any aspect type 6 that I've read about, especially counterphobic 6. 6s have a reputation for being nervous and when they do show aggression, it's of an extremely personal nature. when I'm aggressive, it's cold as ice, relatively emotionless and cut throat.
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  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    actually, a lot of people have approached me in the past. apparently my personality is very entertaining and charismatic, but I found their attention offensive, so I shoooed them away.
    You're such a queen.

  9. #119
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    where did I backhand ISFJs? the only things I've said about them are that
    1) they can get on my nerves when they're overlly passive
    and
    2) they make wonderful friends because they're loyal, forgiving and affectionate
    PS: I seem like an ISFJ? if I were to name the type I see the least of in myself, that would probably be it
    ISFJs are SJs. You've been carrying on about how SJs are close minded, how it's gotta suck to be them, how they're slow on the uptake, etc.

    No need to play dumb.
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  10. #120
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    I know an ISFJ who I think is smarter than Elfboy.

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