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  1. #11
    Member Dizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Is a "Maximiser" a believer in "the ends justify the means"?

    I can see the ISTJ I know being descibed as like that to a certain extent.. well at least until his ENFP shadow sends him sprawling on the floor
    I think a believer in 'the ends justify the means' is not necessarily bound to a maximiser. Although I do recognize me being a believer in the end justifies the means. I can bring great sacrifices in order to reach my goals, while the road towards is not that pleasant.
    Eg finding the best internship there is, but that meant I had to live in a depressing town, 3 hours away from my friends, working 60-70 hours a week, all put in for final appreciation and a couple of points extra on my graduation.

  2. #12
    No me digas, che! Recoleta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
    I think a believer in 'the ends justify the means' is not necessarily bound to a maximiser. Although I do recognize me being a believer in the end justifies the means. I can bring great sacrifices in order to reach my goals, while the road towards is not that pleasant.
    You bring up a good point here. I think in the personal decisions that an ISTJ will make about their own life does sometimes have "the end will justify the means" mentality, because we know how much we can take and sacrifice in order to reach our own goals. However, if other people are added into the mix, then, for me at least, the end will not justify the means. It is one thing for me to sacrifice things in my own life of my own accord, but I would not want to impose those same sacrifices upon someone else.

  3. #13
    Member Dizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recoleta View Post
    You bring up a good point here. I think in the personal decisions that an ISTJ will make about their own life does sometimes have "the end will justify the means" mentality, because we know how much we can take and sacrifice in order to reach our own goals. However, if other people are added into the mix, then, for me at least, the end will not justify the means. It is one thing for me to sacrifice things in my own life of my own accord, but I would not want to impose those same sacrifices upon someone else.
    I agree on that, I think these goals are very personal, often others are not even in the position to make sacrifices. As being an ISTJ, I do feel it is hard to deal with people without ambition, those who are not willing to make sacrifices. Although I cannot recommend anyone going as far as, we sometimes do to reach the end...

  4. #14
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    I don't know if you'll get the reference but our pet ISTJ (I say pet..he's quite old for a pet, really should get him put down or something ) is a mini maxer. This whole maximiser theory really reads to me as a mild version of mini maxing (it's a roleplayer term).

    To explain the term mini maxer, if you've got high strength then everything should stem from that base. It's a good solid base, so build up from that and invest all you can in that base. It tends to produce a spear like effect with a lot of force being applied in a focused effort. This is as opposed to the jack of all trades approach (the two are extremes on an axis.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #15
    No me digas, che! Recoleta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    To explain the term mini maxer, if you've got high strength then everything should stem from that base. It's a good solid base, so build up from that and invest all you can in that base. It tends to produce a spear like effect with a lot of force being applied in a focused effort. This is as opposed to the jack of all trades approach (the two are extremes on an axis.
    Hmmm...I'm not entirely sure I understand the reference, but are you asking if we usually take our talents/abilities and focus all of our energy into that one task...and everything else we do is either related to that ability or we just flat out stink at doing anything else that is not related to that ability? Like we are either really focused and awesome at one (or a few things) as opposed to spreading ourselves out over many different areas (Jack-of-all-trades)?

    If that is along the lines of what you wanted to know, I think it varies greatly between individuals, and depends on how well-rounded one is...and especially one what one's priorities are. There are certainly some areas where I am stronger than others, but overall, I'm not a big fan of "putting all my eggs in one basket." I try to stay well-rounded and always have a back-up plan if possible -- that is how I deal with things like jobs and school and stuff like that...I try not to let it overtake my life, but sometimes it happens (like for now, grad school runs my life)...I invest ridiculous amounts of time and effort into my classes. I try to be competent in a variety of areas so that if my one "focus area" falls out I won't go through an identity crisis or meltdown or something.

    I think that the only area where I am really focused and not a jack-of-all-trades is in my personal relationships. I value my friends and loved ones more than anything else in the world, and I hate change in that area of my life...I will focus on and sacrifice more for these people than anyone/anything else in the world.

  6. #16
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Recoleta,

    Not precisely what I was going for though I do recognise the parallel you have drawn.

    The particular ISTJ I know takes the point as "I'm good at X, so why would I make more than a passing effort at Y?". To illustrate the man wears t-shits with holes you could give birth through and has the nasty tendency to point out things which really should not be spoken out loud... such as "Are you going bald or have decided to shave your head?". Needless to say he fields quite a bit of criticism. Bless him.

    He's still the only guy I know who has turned up to the pub in his slippers. Oh and he doesn't live round the corner either. He has to drive there in his slippers too
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #17
    No me digas, che! Recoleta's Avatar
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    Lol...well, I don't know that I could help you there...sounds like he has settled into a fairly lazy life philosophy to me. Perhaps he was the hard worker type in earlier years and finally came to the realization that no matter how much effort he put in, it never seemed to be enough? Maybe he's been disappointed so many times that he doesn't see the point in effort anymore? ISTJ's (perhaps more than other types) hold themselves to very high standards, and when other people don't live up to those standards or put in the same kind of effort, it can be really disappointing.

    I suppose on a certain level I can relate to, "I'm good at X, so why would I make a passing effort at Y"....but that still gives me no excuse to become a bag lady and not care about anything else. As dumb as this probably sounds, your friend reminds me of many of the people who get on the show "What not to Wear" who dress all frumpy because of some underlying self-worth/insecurity problems...many people end up in tears throughout the process.

  8. #18
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    [QUOTE=Dizzy;171783]In studies the following things have been found about maximizers:
    - Maximization is correlated with regret, perfectionism and depression.
    - Maxmizers are more likely to engage in social comparison, and this effects their mood.
    - Maximizers are more regretful and less happy with their consumer decisions than satisfiers.
    - Although maximizers may be in general achieve better objective outcomes than satisficers, they are likely to experience these outcomes as worse subjectively. [QUOTE]

    I can identify with these "maximizer" characteristics...however, my friends and family have always pegged it as "indecisiveness" for me. I take forever to make desicions, especially about buying things, because I want to make sure I'm getting exactly what I want and need.

    The best example I can think of right now is that I was shopping for a neutral-colored skirt for work. I've gone to probably 10 different stores looking and not found a good one yet. But, when I find one that "might" work, I have to examine it from all kinds of viewpoints: do I like the cut? does it fit me like it should? are there any imperfections? is it something I would actually wear? will it go with the style of my shirts? what kind of image of me will it portray? is it too expensive for the quality it offers? might there be something better out there?

    So, all these things are going through my head while I'm in the dressing room and if a friend is with me, they're like "just get it, let's go, you can return it if you want" (which I rarely do) because I usually don't get it unless it's exactly what I wanted.

    Anyhow, for this reason, I generally prefer to go shopping alone, so I can take my time, though sometimes I wish for a second opinion. I've also started sewing some of my own skirts - just the cute casual summer ones, since I can never find what I want in the store. haha

  9. #19
    Member Dizzy's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=BeBecky;183885][QUOTE=Dizzy;171783]In studies the following things have been found about maximizers:
    - Maximization is correlated with regret, perfectionism and depression.
    - Maxmizers are more likely to engage in social comparison, and this effects their mood.
    - Maximizers are more regretful and less happy with their consumer decisions than satisfiers.
    - Although maximizers may be in general achieve better objective outcomes than satisficers, they are likely to experience these outcomes as worse subjectively.

    I can identify with these "maximizer" characteristics...however, my friends and family have always pegged it as "indecisiveness" for me. I take forever to make desicions, especially about buying things, because I want to make sure I'm getting exactly what I want and need.

    The best example I can think of right now is that I was shopping for a neutral-colored skirt for work. I've gone to probably 10 different stores looking and not found a good one yet. But, when I find one that "might" work, I have to examine it from all kinds of viewpoints: do I like the cut? does it fit me like it should? are there any imperfections? is it something I would actually wear? will it go with the style of my shirts? what kind of image of me will it portray? is it too expensive for the quality it offers? might there be something better out there?

    So, all these things are going through my head while I'm in the dressing room and if a friend is with me, they're like "just get it, let's go, you can return it if you want" (which I rarely do) because I usually don't get it unless it's exactly what I wanted.

    Anyhow, for this reason, I generally prefer to go shopping alone, so I can take my time, though sometimes I wish for a second opinion. I've also started sewing some of my own skirts - just the cute casual summer ones, since I can never find what I want in the store. haha
    Then don't you just hate aggressive salesmen when looking for clothes?
    I feel that they see me as a cheapskate if I don't buy anything, but I rather inspect most of the stores to find the prettiest clothes...

  10. #20

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    I did not really feel like reading all of the previous posts. (They were just too lengthy)

    But... I read the Paradox of Choice.

    It was a good common sense book... but I don't know anyone who doesn't try to "maximize" everything.

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