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  1. #11
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Yes, and yes.
    I love it.
    Welcome, Orangey!
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  2. #12
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    You're forgetting 8 for ESTJ.
    if there are a lot of ESTJ 8s, I haven't met any (although I've met a lot of ESTJ 3s and 6s who appeared 8 on a strictly external level). the 8s emphasis on autonomy and disdain for authority and obligation seem rather contradictory to the SJ drive for protocol, authority and routine. of course, contradiction will appear in any mbti/enneatype combo, so maybe I'm just not looking hard enough
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  3. #13
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    if there are a lot of ESTJ 8s, I haven't met any (although I've met a lot of ESTJ 3s and 6s who appeared 8 on a strictly external level). the 8s emphasis on autonomy and disdain for authority and obligation seem rather contradictory to the SJ drive for protocol, authority and routine. of course, contradiction will appear in any mbti/enneatype combo, so maybe I'm just not looking hard enough
    Then explain a counterphobic 6 ESTJ? If you're going to believe that SJs have some fundamental need for "protocol, authority, and routine," which I don't think is really true, then wouldn't the 8 form of rebellion (not wanting to be controlled by others because you want to be the one in charge) make more sense than 6 rebellion (irrationally rejecting authority...just because?)

    In ALL MBTI/Enneagram correlation studies I've seen, 8 is a primary type for the ESTJ. Are you sure you're not just saying this because you think you're an ENFP 8 and you don't want to be included in the same group as an (almost) opposite type?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #14
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Then explain a counterphobic 6 ESTJ? If you're going to believe that SJs have some fundamental need for "protocol, authority, and routine," which I don't think is really true, then wouldn't the 8 form of rebellion (not wanting to be controlled by others because you want to be the one in charge) make more sense than 6 rebellion (irrationally rejecting authority...just because?)

    In ALL MBTI/Enneagram correlation studies I've seen, 8 is a primary type for the ESTJ. Are you sure you're not just saying this because you think you're an ENFP 8 and you don't want to be included in the same group as an (almost) opposite type?
    it may not be true that they have a fundemental need, but all of the type descriptions of SJs (especially STJs) I've read seem to indicate that they certainly prefer it.


    if there are a lot of ESTJ 8s, I haven't met any (although I've met a lot of ESTJ 3s and 6s who appeared 8 on a strictly external level). the 8s emphasis on autonomy and disdain for authority and obligation seem rather contradictory to the SJ drive for protocol, authority and routine. of course, contradiction will appear in any mbti/enneatype combo, so maybe I'm just not looking hard enough
    actually, I'm not really sure of anything, but now that I think about it, I had an ESTJ 8w7 manager awhile back (whom I got along surprisingly well with) and one of my favorite anime characters (Yahiko Myogin) from Rurouni Kenshin is probably an ESTJ 8.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
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  5. #15
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Then explain a counterphobic 6 ESTJ? If you're going to believe that SJs have some fundamental need for "protocol, authority, and routine," which I don't think is really true, then wouldn't the 8 form of rebellion (not wanting to be controlled by others because you want to be the one in charge) make more sense than 6 rebellion (irrationally rejecting authority...just because?)
    well, this is a highly satirical and exaggerated example, but an ESTJ cp 6 is it's most extreme form can look like this:

    PS: do you know your enneatype?
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  6. #16
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    it may not be true that they have a fundemental need, but all of the type descriptions of SJs (especially STJs) I've read seem to indicate that they certainly prefer it.
    All of the type descriptions of SJs (besides a couple) are utter shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    actually, I'm not really sure of anything, but now that I think about it, I had an ESTJ 8w7 manager awhile back (whom I got along surprisingly well with) and one of my favorite anime characters (Yahiko Myogin) from Rurouni Kenshin is probably an ESTJ 8.
    The other ESTJs I know are all 8s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    well, this is a highly satirical and exaggerated example, but an ESTJ cp 6 is it's most extreme form can look like this:
    I don't know if he's a 6, much less a cp 6. My first guess would be 8w7, then maybe 6w7 (phobic.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    PS: do you know your enneatype?
    6w5.
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  7. #17
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    All of the type descriptions of SJs (besides a couple) are utter shit.



    The other ESTJs I know are all 8s.



    I don't know if he's a 6, much less a cp 6. My first guess would be 8w7, then maybe 6w7 (phobic.)



    6w5.
    you have a point, most of the descriptions of mbti and (especially) enneagram are rather shallow and over generalizing. I studied the cognitive functions to figure out my type (Fi is SO different from Fe and Te is vastly different from Ti), but with enneagram it's much harder because human ego and psychological condition cannot yet be objectively measured reliably at all.
    PS: I still think this guy is a cp 6. his aggression is much more reactive and deliberate. 8s are aggressive naturally and if anything try to tone it down most of the time when healthy. cp 6 aggression is much more reactive and personal and is usually somewhat forced.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  8. #18
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    I find it interesting that you both listed 1, 5, and 6 for ISTJs, because in the few times I have glanced at enneagram, those are the ones I associated with the most. I have no idea what mine is though. Either 5w6, 6w5, or 1w9 as far as I can tell. I haven't spent much time looking into enneagram though.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  9. #19
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    ISTJ: 1, 3, 6
    ESTJ: 3, 6, 8
    ISFJ: 2, 6, 9
    ESFJ: 2, 3, 6
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  10. #20
    Member Parsimony's Avatar
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    As an ISTJ, my Enneagram is a 1w9 and the next closest type is 5 with balanced wings. So, I agree with 1 and 5.

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