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[MBTI General] Do you have any concrete examples of ISTJ vs ISFJ?

SinneDeelie

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
9
MBTI Type
ISFJ
I swear I'm either a very organized, analytical ISFJ or an accomodating, people-oriented ISTJ. I can't tell which one.

I'm leaning more towards ISFJ mostly because I don't feel hardcore enough to be a thinker over a feeler, but I also think I'm kind of emotional retarded sometimes lol. Then again, maybe that has more to do with introversion than anything else. :shrug:

Can someone give me some advice or concrete ways in which an ISTJ and ISFJ differ? Or maybe give me some questions that I can ask myself so that I can distinguish between the two?

Thanks.
 

tinker683

Whackus Bonkus
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
2,882
MBTI Type
ISFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I swear I'm either a very organized, analytical ISFJ or an accomodating, people-oriented ISTJ. I can't tell which one.

I'm leaning more towards ISFJ mostly because I don't feel hardcore enough to be a thinker over a feeler, but I also think I'm kind of emotional retarded sometimes lol. Then again, maybe that has more to do with introversion than anything else. :shrug:

Can someone give me some advice or concrete ways in which an ISTJ and ISFJ differ? Or maybe give me some questions that I can ask myself so that I can distinguish between the two?

Thanks.

It would be a mistake to go on the premise that Thinkers are emotional retards or that Feelers don't have any ability to detach and look at things analytically.

As regards to your question though, I think one way of trying to determine it would be to do the following:

1) Think about something that you have a strong opinion or position on
2) Think about why you possess that opinion or position. Is it because of some objective standard or your own subjective values?
3) If the former, you may be a T. If the latter, you may be an F.

Just my opinion though, I'm sure someone will correct me ;)
 

Orangey

Blah
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
6,354
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
6w5
ISTJ is directing in communication (which makes them seem slightly bossy) while ISFJ is informing (which makes them seem more soft.) Also, IME ISTJs are grumpier and quicker to anger than ISFJs.
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I swear I'm either a very organized, analytical ISFJ or an accomodating, people-oriented ISTJ. I can't tell which one.

I'm leaning more towards ISFJ mostly because I don't feel hardcore enough to be a thinker over a feeler, but I also think I'm kind of emotional retarded sometimes lol. Then again, maybe that has more to do with introversion than anything else. :shrug:

Can someone give me some advice or concrete ways in which an ISTJ and ISFJ differ? Or maybe give me some questions that I can ask myself so that I can distinguish between the two?

Thanks.

ISFJs are usually much more conflict avoidant than ISTJs. ISTJs re more "there's a problem, stop whining and let's fix it"
 

raz

Let's make this showy!
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
2,523
MBTI Type
LoLz
It would be a mistake to go on the premise that Thinkers are emotional retards or that Feelers don't have any ability to detach and look at things analytically.

As regards to your question though, I think one way of trying to determine it would be to do the following:

1) Think about something that you have a strong opinion or position on
2) Think about why you possess that opinion or position. Is it because of some objective standard or your own subjective values?
3) If the former, you may be a T. If the latter, you may be an F.

Just my opinion though, I'm sure someone will correct me ;)

That's got a bit of fail in it. Having an opinion on something can be either Fe or Fi based. Let's use that for an example:

I have a strong opinion on religion. I was raised Catholic. As I grew up, I experienced differing opinions on religion. The conflict I ran into was that for every belief in a religion, there were several counterpoints. How could I hold a belief in Catholicism when I could find arguments against it and every other religion in the world through research. Everyone else in the world had different perspectives, and I felt closed off if I didn't take them into consideration. I came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth investing in Catholicism due to these reasons. Through later analysis of why religion exists, why people believe in a religion, how many different religions there are, why religion affects people so greatly, I further reinforced this decision by taking a more open minded stance. Every religion has reasons for existing along with arguments against it and there are always other ways of looking at everything. Thus I developed strong sense of my own worldview(Introverted Feeling) through experience (Introverted Sensing), analysis(Extraverted Thinking) and openness (Extraverted Intuition).

In explaining the above in more detail, Extraverted Thinking gave me the consistent objectivity to analyze the situation looking for a truth. I had to examine everything from every point of view. I had to understand why every action, regardless of its impact on your life had an impact on this decision. Introverted Feeling needed a personal subjective viewpoint, an outlook that fit with my own criteria for what a religion should be. This criteria was developed through Extraverted Thinking.

How does that relate to Extraverted Feeling? I have no fucking clue. I really have little understanding of the function even though I've read massive amounts about it. I just can't understand how it moves a person to project emotions and feelings in such a generic way onto people. Take for instance, we had a storm in North Carolina with a dozen tornados. My ENFJ sister and ESFJ mother said "The people there just like the support of other people around there." I asked why 700 people went to a funeral for a tornado victim even though they didn't know them. They said, "The family just likes the support, and I just want to show sympathy for these people." I was like, "But, they don't know the people. If I died in a tornado, I wouldn't want 700 strangers. If I died of a health problem, those 700 people wouldn't be there. There's no personal attachment. I really despise those people for that."

It's just really my lack of understanding of Fe. Why show general sympathy that doesn't come with personal attachment? It's so fake. I don't want to waste my time or be involved with someone who doesn't care about me personally, only about the situation.
 

Sunny Ghost

New member
Joined
May 28, 2010
Messages
2,396
It would be a mistake to go on the premise that Thinkers are emotional retards or that Feelers don't have any ability to detach and look at things analytically.

As regards to your question though, I think one way of trying to determine it would be to do the following:

1) Think about something that you have a strong opinion or position on
2) Think about why you possess that opinion or position. Is it because of some objective standard or your own subjective values?
3) If the former, you may be a T. If the latter, you may be an F.

Just my opinion though, I'm sure someone will correct me ;)

I see little fail in this.

However, I see the point raz is trying to make. ISFJ (Si/Fe/Ti) and ISTJ (Si/Te/Fi). But you have to take into consideration how Fi and Fe work depending on whether or not it's an aux or tertiary function. An ISTJ will still be logic first and an ISFJ will be more subjective first, when it comes down to opinions and views. The ISTJ is a creme brulee and ISFJ is an ice cream cake. One's hard on the outside, with a softer interior. The other is soft on the outside with a stronger interior. :laugh:
 

raz

Let's make this showy!
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
2,523
MBTI Type
LoLz
I see little fail in this.

However, I see the point raz is trying to make. ISFJ (Si/Fe/Ti) and ISTJ (Si/Te/Fi). But you have to take into consideration how Fi and Fe work depending on whether or not it's an aux or tertiary function. An ISTJ will still be logic first and an ISFJ will be more subjective first, when it comes down to opinions and views. The ISTJ is a creme brulee and ISFJ is an ice cream cake. One's hard on the outside, with a softer interior. The other is soft on the outside with a stronger interior. :laugh:

My point was just that Fi and Fe's decision making are made entirely on different criteria and a subjective decision should not be looked at in a certain way.
 

Sunny Ghost

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May 28, 2010
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2,396
my bad. i sort of skipped over it. :cheese: i just assumed that was the direction it was headed in. bad habit.
 

bcubchgo

New member
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Jul 29, 2010
Messages
164
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
3w4
ISTJ is directing in communication (which makes them seem slightly bossy) while ISFJ is informing (which makes them seem more soft.) Also, IME ISTJs are grumpier and quicker to anger than ISFJs.

QFT. ISFJ is still somewhat opinionated, but they are less quick to assume that if you differ in opinion that you are dumb.
 

Habba

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Jul 22, 2008
Messages
988
MBTI Type
ISTJ
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1w9
...or just plain wrong?

Differences I've noted between Te and Fe:

* Te expects people around him to voice their opinions, atleast when asked. Only what is said, matters (well, in a perfect Te world)
- Fe is more inclined to find out what others are thinking without asking, and then tries to ask in a way that no one has to disagree or object against greater majority.

* Te is more prideful
- Fe tries to fit in more

* Te laughs at funny stuff
- Fe laughs to connect

* Te is never right or wrong, facts are.
- Fe sees being wrong embarassing.

I know some very intelligent Fe persons, and they can totally outlogic many Tes. And I know many Tes who know how to be much more empathic than Fe persons. So I think T-F thing is more about person's relationship to facts and logic than person's skills with logic and empathy. I feel that Tes detach themselves more from the matters of fact and truth, while Fe seem to personalize them more.

EDIT:

Oh, concrete examples were asked...

Well, I'm ISTJ and I used to know one ISFJ (male too) too.

Whenever we (me, him and our girlfriends) tried to find out a restaurant to have a dinner, he would _always_ say "I'm okay with everything" and not once did he make suggestions where to eat. I, on the other hand, stated very clearly what I did and didn't want to eat. I guess he didn't want to ruin the night by being too picky, but I didn't want to ruin my night just because someone wanted to go place I didn't like.

Also, the girls loved to sing karaoke with Singstars... and few times they tried to force us to sing too. I said that I didn't like any of the songs in the game (pretty much all the songs were mainstream rock/pop, which I don't listen to at all), while ISFJ often would agree to sing (even if he was the worst singer in the history of lousy singers... and he didn't really know much english either).

All in all, he was always trying to be nice, while I was always trying to make things go the way I liked them.

Oh, and he was studying maths at local university, while I studied computer sciences. Board games were a shared hobby, and I think he had an advantage when it came to more mathematical games, while I had the advantage when it came to more "game"-like games (in which you have to know what others are doing, rather than trying to optimize your own game).
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
...or just plain wrong?
:yes:

Differences I've noted between Te and Fe:

* Te expects people around him to voice their opinions, atleast when asked. Only what is said, matters (well, in a perfect Te world)
- Fe is more inclined to find out what others are thinking without asking, and then tries to ask in a way that no one has to disagree or object against greater majority.

* Te is more prideful
- Fe tries to fit in more

* Te laughs at funny stuff
- Fe laughs to connect

* Te is never right or wrong, facts are.
- Fe sees being wrong embarassing.

I know some very intelligent Fe persons, and they can totally outlogic many Tes. And I know many Tes who know how to be much more empathic than Fe persons. So I think T-F thing is more about person's relationship to facts and logic than person's skills with logic and empathy. I feel that Tes detach themselves more from the matters of fact and truth, while Fe seem to personalize them more.
I agree with pretty much all of this, except for the bolded, because I am very easily embarrassed by being wrong. But it's a different kind of embarrassment than an SFJ would feel - i.e. the SFJ might feel embarrassed because they don't want to be judged or looked down upon for being wrong, and they don't want that interpersonal harmony to be lessened/destroyed. Whereas I would feel embarrassed because being wrong would make me a hypocrite, because one of my high standards for myself is that I be factually correct, and I wouldn't be meeting that standard.

Also, your example is really good :) It shows really well that ISTJs are more independent and less susceptible to peer pressure than ISFJs.
 

Habba

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Jul 22, 2008
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988
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ISTJ
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1w9
:yes:


I agree with pretty much all of this, except for the bolded, because I am very easily embarrassed by being wrong. But it's a different kind of embarrassment than an SFJ would feel - i.e. the SFJ might feel embarrassed because they don't want to be judged or looked down upon for being wrong, and they don't want that interpersonal harmony to be lessened/destroyed. Whereas I would feel embarrassed because being wrong would make me a hypocrite, because one of my high standards for myself is that I be factually correct, and I wouldn't be meeting that standard.

What I mostly meant with that was that ISFJ wouldn't like to point out that someone is wrong, as they feel like they'd be embarassing that person. Therefore they are more willing to see some good in all ideas.

Another example came to me... Few years back I chatted with a girl, and she was upset about a girl on her class. She was a big lizard fan herself (had a pet lizard) and was thinking of getting a tattoo on her arm. It would be a lizard, of course... and she was upset because that other girl actually went and did take that tattoo before she did. She felt as if her idea was stolen. I was bit confused why would that upset her... and did point out to her that "Well, doesn't that just prove how good idea you had? You should be proud of it, rather than jealous".

Wouldn't that prove how much more attached Fe people are towards their ideas than Te people. I feel that ideas are all out there, we just have to find them... and no one really owns them, so no one shouldn't be judged by them either (it's actions that count).
 
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