[ISTJ] ISTJs encountering other ISTJs

[Dizzy]

For the university I have had my share of groupwork. Last time I was working in a very disfunctional team, somehow our personalities and approaches seems to hold down any form of productivity. We would disagree about everything and it would take hours to finally agree upon something.

As an ISTJ I know my weaknesses in overthriving my own point of view, necessity of structure etc. Now I have tried to determine the MBTI-types of my fellow teammates. If you think about it, having two ISTJs in one group could also be problematic:
-> Both have a clear picture in their minds how it should be, but due to different background those pictures could be very distinct.
-> Both tend to rely on facts, but because of different experiences and education these can be used in another order/ usage of other theories.
-> On one hand ISTJs need regular confirmation/ appreciation for their hard work. But on the other hand ISTJs themselves are very reserved with compliments, because they expect a certain level/input. During the project I found that I only got commented on the things that were not perfect, without receiving any gratitude for my hard work.

The good things are of course that they will both stick to deadlines. Anybody knows about ISTJs amongst each other (especially at work)?

 

[Recoleta]

To my knowledge, I don't know any other ISTJ's in my workplace, but my best friend/travel buddy (and former roommate) is another female ISTJ. I can agree that sometimes our ideas clash because we both have clear pictures in our mind of how we want things, and sometimes we approach things from a different angle. Thankfully, our thought processes are often very similar, so probably 90% of the time I know exactly what she's thinking and vice versa. It's funny because when our ideas do clash we just talk it out. We'll state the reasons (facts) for why we see it the way we do....and then we'll either reach a compromise or one will concede to the other's idea based on how logical it sounds. In certain areas of expertise, I always win, and in certain areas she will always win. I think it works out so well for us though because we are best friends...and I know I can say anything to her and she knows she can say anything to me. It's really quite nice to have a relationship be very open for communication. Plus, I think it helps that I am more layed back and calm, whereas she is extremely motivated and can be really intense sometimes. I've seen her totally lose her cool once, and it was one of the funniest things I have ever witnessed.

Anyway, as far as confirmation/appreciation goes, I think we verbally appreciate each other every so often...usually when we're having lots of fun (like when we're travelling). It also really helps that we are both going through grad school now at the same university (different programs) so we both vent to each other and say stuff like, "I'm so glad you're going through this with me, because no one else has any idea what it's like right now" and we can really empathize with each other. Overall, we both know we work hard, and we both know that we will always have each others backs...our appreciation really doesn't always need to be spoken between us, because it is evident in our actions and in the way we make room for each other despite our busy lives.

 

[Dizzy]

I see, but I don't mean necessary as friends. But more as teammembers in a business setting, in where both ISTJs have expertise on the same field, but not necessarily agree.
Of course as friends you communicate your appreciation. But in an ad-hoc team in a working environment things are different.

 

[LouMeland]

I have a close friend who is also an ISTJ. One day, we did a group project together. She can be very patient sometimes (not in a rush). I am not as patient. I did the work myself and told her I did, but, since she also had to do something, I told her to present it to the class the next day; she complied without hesitation. That's what I like about ISTJ's- they don't hesitate that much! We both accepted our responsibility and did what we had to do! =)

 

[entropie]

I have a close friend who is also an ISTJ. One day, we did a group project together. She can be very patient sometimes (not in a rush). I am not as patient. I did the work myself and told her I did, but, since she also had to do something, I told her to present it to the class the next day; she complied without hesitation. That's what I like about ISTJ's- they don't hesitate that much! We both accepted our responsibility and did what we had to do! =)

Man, where can I sign up for such a group ? My university groups always end in chaos. Last time we had to evaluate a temperature sensor and we were a team of 4. Two people of the team were refusing to do anything for the project, because we had already passed the course and the project would only made our grade better. But if I have to choose between a B and a D, I will try to get the B. the forth team member was really the only one, who was there all the time and who did a great job. I bet he was ISTJ

 

[Little Linguist]

I know my fellow ENFPs will probably call me a heathen for saying this, but:

I HATE GROUP WORK!!!!!!

Discussions in groups, cool. Working in groups, ugh!

Let me do my shit, I will let you do your shit, and let's all shit our shit alone.

I don't need anyone to squeeze my head so that I can.

Arghgghghghhghghghghghgh.

What happens? I have cool ideas and can implement them, and other people are stupid, lazy bastids. They bring my grade down; I bring their grade up. F*ck that, man. Do your stuff alone. :steam:

 

[entropie]

Nah group work is important. You cant build a city without it. Besides ideas generate from input, so you need a group again. Or would you say, what we are doing on MBTI here, is not group work ?

 

[Little Linguist]

Nah group work is important. You cant build a city without it. Besides ideas generate from input, so you need a group again. Or would you say, what we are doing on MBTI here, is not group work ?

This is discussion, which is condusive to the generation of new ideas and developing current ones, like you said. What gets my goat is when now you have to do a project that will be evaluated and most people use the "free rider" concept. BLAH.

Drives me nuts!

I mean how would you feel if you were part of a team, had almost all the great ideas and did almost all the work, but your colleague got the raise?! Ferk a derk! No way. Uh uh. I like doing my work and being responsible for my own work; if it is great, kudos. If it blows, well I was the dumbass.

When I was in college, I almost always begged, BEGGED to work alone. *sigh* Alas, sometimes the professors were like, No, whaaa whaaaa whaaa you have to be in a group. GAHHHHHH!!!!

 

[entropie]

Don't know, I like group work. Some projects are just to big for one head and besides that it is great to share the same feeling of having accomplished something with the group after.

We once played a managment game in university, where 10 companies each consisting of 4 players started with the exactly same situation and had to beat the other 9. There were 6 periods that were equivalent to one year of real time. The game went on for 6 weeks. You could decide whether you research a new product or how much you wanted to produce. Whether you invest in your comapny image or if you want to buy new machines, and a lot more.

My company won in the end . We had invested in R&D and luck was on our side.

That was a real group achievement and it was pretty fun.

 

[Anja]

As a very responsible and conscientious INFP I also detested group work in school. There was once a fellow INFP who did nothing and turned in his insufficent work around midnight the last day of the project. Of course he slid in on our coattails.

But as the very tired and irritated typist for the project I added a notation regarding his behavior. He still got the same grade as we did.

Preparaton for life. That's what it's all about. If one has difficulty working in groups, unless he wants to spend his career life in solitary confinement, it's probably a valuable learning tool.

I have my own handy-dandy diagnostic tool in my very ISTJ spouse. If he feels and expresses antipathy toward another human it's a sure bet that person is an ISTJ.

When I suggest to him that the peron who irritates him is very similar to him he draws a blank expression. Heh. Can't see it.

 

[Anja]

Did I kill it?

No hidden jabs intended there. Do other ISTJs sometimes notice that old idea that what irritates us most is most like us?

 

[Recoleta]

Huh?...not really. I'm trying to think about what really irritates me. I get irritated when someone says they are going to do something, and they don't do it -- which is nothing like me, because if I say I'm going to do something, I mean it. Generally, people who are like me are really easy to get along with.

Can you provide an example?

 

[entropie]

I can provide one:

Best ISTJ, I know Captain Jean-Luc Picard

YouTube - What Would Captain Picard Do

Besides as far as it goes with entp, you can count on us. Even if we brag, even if we whine, even if we make trouble all the time.

We never get things done and group work with ISTJ is from this point of view a big opportunity, to finally get something done

 

[animenagai]

I know my fellow ENFPs will probably call me a heathen for saying this, but:

I HATE GROUP WORK!!!!!!

Discussions in groups, cool. Working in groups, ugh!

Let me do my shit, I will let you do your shit, and let's all shit our shit alone.

I don't need anyone to squeeze my head so that I can.

Arghgghghghhghghghghghgh.

What happens? I have cool ideas and can implement them, and other people are stupid, lazy bastids. They bring my grade down; I bring their grade up. F*ck that, man. Do your stuff alone. :steam:

lol you're a cool cat LL. i know what you mean. i feel like i'm often the one with the ideas but i get overlooked for it. mainly because i'm a playful ENFP so a lot of times people think that i'm not working hard or whatever. kinda sucks. i still like group work though .

i can imagine ISTJ's having big problems with each other. "YOU'RE WEIRD!' "NO YOU'RE WEIRD!". i think things like that were what made me try and look at underlying facts as a child rather than traditions etc. i wonder which types an ISTJ get along best with. keirsey would say ESFP, but there has to be more.

 

[Anja]

An example of what irritates us the most being something we are guilty of?

Well, I modestly decline using myself as an example.

But I can see it in others well enough. Hee.

One example of "self-evaluation blindness" I see here and on infp globalchatter is somebody going into a long tirade about what he/she detests in another and giving wonderful examples of many of the very things complained about.

My mouth drops open and I wonder how someone could carry so much denial.

Or am I confusing mindgames with lack of insight?

 

[Condor]

Hi everyone,

When I took the MBTI my scores were unabashedly ISTJ, and have probably gone as far away from a center as possible as I get older...

Scanning the threads and thought I'd join and offer my thoughts regarding irritants - what irritates me and what others are irritated about me are one in the same: punctuality, or the lack of it. I'll find myself actually slowing down a bit to arrive at a location at exactly 9am because I said I'd be there at 9am and not 8:58am. And as far as others and the idea that 9am means between 8 and 11, it simply drives me up the wall, and others can't seem to understand why.

<sigh>

Phil

 

[Anja]

Off topic for a sec.

It's interesting that you would say that you are drifting from type. If I understand you correctly. When I was younger I was INXX, probably more Jay, but as I age I've become nearly completely INFP. I certainly don't feel as confused as I once did!

Maybe there's a thread here which addresses this?

 

[ArbiterDewey]

My only noted encounter with another ISTJ was actually a Math teacher I played Dungeons & Dragons with. Our ideals were the same, as well as our problem solving methods, and when one of us didn't know something the other normally complemented the missing information.

It was a good experience, and we never clashed.