[ISTJ] ISTJs

[celesul]

My parents always hated how I could never admit defeat in arguments when I was growing up.


But it was obviously because I was never wrong.

That's exactly what my dad says. I appreciate him, and he's almost never wrong about science stuff, but still. I like to argue, and he never admits he's wrong. It's not nice. Although I suppose it's better than if he always conceded. That makes it impossible to argue at all.

 

[swordpath]

That's exactly what my dad says. I appreciate him, and he's almost never wrong about science stuff, but still. I like to argue, and he never admits he's wrong. It's not nice. Although I suppose it's better than if he always conceded. That makes it impossible to argue at all.

On a good day he may realize he's wrong, but yeah, chances probably aren't high for him admitting it.

 

[celesul]

On a good day he may realize he's wrong, but yeah, chances probably aren't high for him admitting it.

Indeed. Sometimes if it's history related, I can convince him that I know more (especially ancient), but everything else doesn't work so well. It doesn't help that I love reading, pick up info on something he should do better than I (by virtue of being an adult), and correct him about it. It's great fun but isn't particularly a prudent path. But at least being strictly T means that if my logic is amazing, I have a chance.

How many ISTJs are atheists? Kind of off topic, but the ones here seem to be, more than I'd expect from SJs, and quite vocal about it. My dad is as well, and is convinced that it is the only way, and religion is the cause of all evil (I'm only exaggerating a bit). So is it that many ISTJs are atheists, or are they just vocal about it?

 

[GZA]

I think the ISTJ's here are fantastic!

I'm not sure if I know any in real life... my dad is some kind of XSTJ, but I'm pretty sure its ESTJ, so I probably should use him to relate...

But I really think you guys can, when you want to, be very funny and fun to be around. If your attitude towards work is anything like my dad's though... we might not get along :steam:

 

[sassafrassquatch]

How many ISTJs are atheists?

Me!

If your attitude towards work is anything like my dad's though... we might not get along :steam:

I prefer to avoid getting tagged with responsibility in the first place but if I can't avoid it I put my best effort into it. Mustn't have anyone think poorly of me.

 

[swordpath]

Sometimes I feel very atheist but I'm not at the point (nor do I ever suppose I'll be) where I'm going to absolutely deny the possibility of something that we don't fully understand that is greater than the creatures of the earth.

I'm against religion for the most part and have a lot of resentment towards aspects of it though.

 

[typo]

Sometimes I feel very atheist but I'm not at the point (nor do I ever suppose I'll be) where I'm going to absolutely deny the possibility of something that we don't fully understand that is greater than the creatures of the earth.

I'm against religion for the most part and have a lot of resentment towards aspects of it though.

Most atheists don't deny the possibility of god; they just put that probability very close to zero. Many scientistis who are atheists (or agnostics) do believe in the existence of other advanced civilizations that could well be "greater than the creatures of the earth" depending on what you meant by that phrase.

 

[swordpath]

Most atheists don't deny the possibility of god; they just put that probability very close to zero. Many scientistis who are atheists (or agnostics) do believe in the existence of other advanced civilizations that could well be "greater than the creatures of the earth" depending on what you meant by that phrase.

Well then what differentiates an atheist from an agnostic? Do agnostics just think it's more likely that a higher power exists?

By a power greater than the creatures of the earth, I meant a spiritual being/beings that created the universe or at least holds the knowledge as to what created it and/or whoever runs an afterlife.

 

[sassafrassquatch]

 

[swordpath]

Maybe I'm just stupid but I'm trying to make sense of that little diagram and it's not explaining much to me.

Can someone barney it down for me? At least explain epistemic knowledge. What exactly does that constitute?

 

[sassafrassquatch]

I think if a hyper dimensional alien being erroneously referred to as "God" were to exist it could conceivably keep itself hidden. I think such an entity is absurd and most likely does not exist. That religion is purely the product of human imagination should be obvious to everyone who doesn't drink the kool-aid.

Does this thing exist? I don't think so. Could it exist? I don't know. So you could call me an agnostic-atheist.

 

[swordpath]

Does this thing exist? I don't think so. Could it exist? I don't know. So you could call me an agnostic-atheist.

That just sounds like the definition I've always gone by for what agnostic is. God dammit, I'm confused.

 

[sassafrassquatch]

As I understand it a strict Agnostic always answers "I don't know" to the God question. Does God exist? They don't know. Could God exist? They don't know. Agnostic means A-without Gnosis=knowledge, greek for I don't know.

An Atheist would have some degree of certainty that God(s) do not exist. A Theist would be somewhat certain that God(s) do exist.

 

[swordpath]

So agnostic = an apathetic "I don't know."

Atheists = (typically) more researched and thought through to conclude it's highly unlikely that a god exists.


?

 

[sassafrassquatch]

Agnostics aren't necessarily apathetic, some of them are quite adamant that we cannot know anything about God and whether it exists or not. Atheists have thought about God and it just doesn't work, there's no way it can exist but if it does we'd like to see it.

 

[swordpath]

Ok, well when you put it that way, I consider myself agnostic (still).

 

[Taberculosis]

Agnostics aren't necessarily apathetic, some of them are quite adamant that we cannot know anything about God and whether it exists or not. Atheists have thought about God and it just doesn't work, there's no way it can exist but if it does we'd like to see it.

You got it. I took a course called "Philosophy and Atheism" (I bombed it because apparently philosophy is not my thing and I felt like the topic had been beaten to death so I just wanted to quit.... so I did.)
Anyway..... Agnostics don't think God (higher power) can be proved or disproved as opposed to the Atheist who either believes there is no god, or does not believe in god. (I know end of the last sentence is fucked up.... there's positive atheism and negative atheism.... I can explain it if you want but I don't feel like it now)

As for an answer to the original topic, I don't hate being an ISTJ, I just hate how I make others feel.

I correct my mother, sister, boyfriend, friends so much (it's wash not worsh.... deer not deers.... yes you can leave a tip on a credit card and they will still get it.... why would you even think to do it like that... that doesn't make any sense, did YOU even think? etc) that I just come off as a controlling bitch.

Not only am I hard on myself I am very hard on everyone around me. I guess I expect too much from them. I've had to accept that you can't make someone change. I have just wanted my family members to improve, but it only ends up with them feeling like they aren't good enough... or in my mothers case, that she is a bad parent.

....Which I feel like she is because she makes me feel guilty for EVEYTHING!!!
...But I try not to be the kind of person who shifts blame. I don't even let anyone take the blame for something!!! lol I'm a freak.

 

[LadyJaye]

You mean it isn't worsh?! Worsh makes me crazy too.

My mother is a STJ - she teaches college English, and can tell you immediately any part of the MLA handbook, and she knows all the rules for proper English usage. Needless to say, my english was corrected a lot when I was growing up, which was mildly infuriating but was also very helpful. ( Plus, it's a freakish marvel to hear my mother recall an obscure diction rule. It's like a secret power. ) I can say that because of her, I know how to speak correctly.

 

[Taberculosis]

I can say that because of her, I know how to speak correctly.

I am the opposite. I speak very well due to my mother's inability to use proper grammar. She would always say, "When you get A's in English you can correct me." So I got A's in English. Then it was, "If you get straight A's you can correct me." So I got straight A's. But.... I am still not allowed to correct her because there is always "something."

I already have more education than her, what does she want!?!?!?

She drives me nuts.

 

[LadyJaye]

I already have more education than her, what does she want!?!?!?

She drives me nuts.

It's part of the Mom Rules, which are actually quite arbitrary. A lot like Calvinball I think. For example, my mother is the safest driver I know, and yet, she told me her dream job was to be a demolition derby driver. I suspect motherhood does something to the brain.