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  1. #21
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emectar View Post
    You're getting too defensive. She wasn't attacking ESFJs.
    It's not attacking. I just don't perceive her to be asking a question that can be answered. If you walk into someone's room and say "Wow, you're boring. How do I not be so goddamn bored around you?" And then claim to not know what you did, does that sound like something that can be answered by the person being questioned?

    I think what she needs is empathy, like a pat on the back "Yes prplchknz SJs are boring and it's so hard to be around them, just smile and nod at them" and I think it's pretty much a slap in the face to the resident SJs of this forum to seek that in the SJ section, when there are plenty of other places on this forum that happens. There are already few SJ here as it stands.

  2. #22
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    Thank you! I mean I don't hate her, I like her but sometimes I just wanna be like shut up!!! I don't know who the hottest guy on tv is. But of course I say first name that pops in to my head nod and smile. And she doesn't take my humor well, and anyone who knows me knows that I tend to be an asshole at times, and its not like I'm only an asshole to her. and it's not easy to bite my tongue. I should work on biting my tongue.
    That probably is part of a decent solution. I'll still drop some more typical "NT" jokes/tongue-in-cheek things around my ISFJ mom, which can kind of shock her, but I've been gentle with her about it and helped her "ease into" who I am rather than just hitting her full-force with something she doesn't naturally get.

    I had to finally accept the issues between my mom and me. For many years, I was really disappointed and upset about our relationship because I really wanted a mom who "understood" me and I could actually have meaningful conversations with (where "meaningful" is what I personally considered meaningful, more typical NTP concerns). I also felt like I had invested a lot more in trying to "enter her turf" than she had in entering mine.

    Eventually I came to realize and accept that that was just reality. I'm a type of person who can more easily "get" people who are not like me, where she just has a hard time understanding other frameworks... so like it or not, it was my job to take the steps to bond here, and appreciate her for who she was because she would never be what I wanted completely, just as I am sure she wishes I were more like her in some ways. But I can tell she still loves me.

    So I talk to her on the phone once a week, occasionally meet for lunch, and I invest in discussions of the family and relationships when I was there, and I give her an overview of what I'm focused on in life. I put out general bits and pieces of my world that she might be able to engage (big picture stuff) and at least to be fair to myself; and meanwhile I keep her informed of relevant details, and so she feels like we have a relationship. And, once I changed my definition of relationship, I can say that we have a relationship as well; it's just that for me, I had to accept that whatever other needs I had in my life, she would not be able to meet. I don't bother to NEVER touch on them, I feel as part of the relationship I need to give her the option to engage if she wants, but if she can't, I can't expect it from her.

    I'm fortunate enough not to live with her and thus deal with it 24/7. She's really happy with scheduled, consistent communication even if it's not for a long period of time. That helps her feel like we have something established. She's still my mom, and she invested a lot in me when I was growing up even if it didn't meet some of my needs, and I want to honor that and learn from it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #23
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That probably is part of a decent solution. I'll still drop some more typical "NT" jokes/tongue-in-cheek things around my ISFJ mom, which can kind of shock her, but I've been gentle with her about it and helped her "ease into" who I am rather than just hitting her full-force with something she doesn't naturally get.

    I had to finally accept the issues between my mom and me. For many years, I was really disappointed and upset about our relationship because I really wanted a mom who "understood" me and I could actually have meaningful conversations with (where "meaningful" is what I personally considered meaningful, more typical NTP concerns). I also felt like I had invested a lot more in trying to "enter her turf" than she had in entering mine.

    Eventually I came to realize and accept that that was just reality. I'm a type of person who can more easily "get" people who are not like me, where she just has a hard time understanding other frameworks... so like it or not, it was my job to take the steps to bond here, and appreciate her for who she was because she would never be what I wanted completely, just as I am sure she wishes I were more like her in some ways. But I can tell she still loves me.

    So I talk to her on the phone once a week, occasionally meet for lunch, and I invest in discussions of the family and relationships when I was there, and I give her an overview of what I'm focused on in life. I put out general bits and pieces of my world that she might be able to engage (big picture stuff) and at least to be fair to myself; and meanwhile I keep her informed of relevant details, and so she feels like we have a relationship. And, once I changed my definition of relationship, I can say that we have a relationship as well; it's just that for me, I had to accept that whatever other needs I had in my life, she would not be able to meet. I don't bother to NEVER touch on them, I feel as part of the relationship I need to give her the option to engage if she wants, but if she can't, I can't expect it from her.

    I'm fortunate enough not to live with her and thus deal with it 24/7. She's really happy with scheduled, consistent communication even if it's not for a long period of time. That helps her feel like we have something established. She's still my mom, and she invested a lot in me when I was growing up even if it didn't meet some of my needs, and I want to honor that and learn from it.
    Yeah, I mean this person isn't my mom so once she moves out I'll won't have to talk her if I chose not to, but I do want to prevent us from hating each other which is very possible. So no it's not me looking for empathy it's me asking for advice on how to prevent the murder of an INFP and ESFJ. I'll figure out something, even if it means going into my room when I'm not in the mood to socialize with the excuse I have to study.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  4. #24
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That probably is part of a decent solution. I'll still drop some more typical "NT" jokes/tongue-in-cheek things around my ISFJ mom, which can kind of shock her, but I've been gentle with her about it and helped her "ease into" who I am rather than just hitting her full-force with something she doesn't naturally get.

    I had to finally accept the issues between my mom and me. For many years, I was really disappointed and upset about our relationship because I really wanted a mom who "understood" me and I could actually have meaningful conversations with (where "meaningful" is what I personally considered meaningful, more typical NTP concerns). I also felt like I had invested a lot more in trying to "enter her turf" than she had in entering mine.

    Eventually I came to realize and accept that that was just reality. I'm a type of person who can more easily "get" people who are not like me, where she just has a hard time understanding other frameworks... so like it or not, it was my job to take the steps to bond here, and appreciate her for who she was because she would never be what I wanted completely, just as I am sure she wishes I were more like her in some ways. But I can tell she still loves me.

    So I talk to her on the phone once a week, occasionally meet for lunch, and I invest in discussions of the family and relationships when I was there, and I give her an overview of what I'm focused on in life. I put out general bits and pieces of my world that she might be able to engage (big picture stuff) and at least to be fair to myself; and meanwhile I keep her informed of relevant details, and so she feels like we have a relationship. And, once I changed my definition of relationship, I can say that we have a relationship as well; it's just that for me, I had to accept that whatever other needs I had in my life, she would not be able to meet. I don't bother to NEVER touch on them, I feel as part of the relationship I need to give her the option to engage if she wants, but if she can't, I can't expect it from her.

    I'm fortunate enough not to live with her and thus deal with it 24/7. She's really happy with scheduled, consistent communication even if it's not for a long period of time. That helps her feel like we have something established. She's still my mom, and she invested a lot in me when I was growing up even if it didn't meet some of my needs, and I want to honor that and learn from it.
    I have a relationship exactly like this with my mom who is also an SJ.

  5. #25
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    tsk tsk... calm down people

    to decode chicken-speak for you, I do beleive that Ms Chickenz would like to know WHY her roommate enjoys conversation on what she considers to be mundane topics and would also enjoy a few hints on how to politely behave when someone who has a sometimes overwhelming personality is boring them with details because the person is nice, and she likes them, but wishes for some peace and quiet
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #26
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    tsk tsk... calm down people

    to decode chicken-speak for you, I do beleive that Ms Chickenz would like to know WHY her roommate enjoys conversation on what she considers to be mundane topics and would also enjoy a few hints on how to politely behave when someone who has a sometimes overwhelming personality is boring them with details because the person is nice, and she likes them, but wishes for some peace and quiet
    yes.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #27
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    tsk tsk... calm down people

    to decode chicken-speak for you, I do beleive that Ms Chickenz would like to know WHY her roommate enjoys conversation on what she considers to be mundane topics
    I'm not one of those SJs but I guess pop culture is just interesting to them. It's hard to say why people are interested in what they are interested in. I often wonder why people are interested in things I have no interest in myself. Sometimes people seem interested in things out of animal instinct... sometimes because of their upbringing, sometimes due to trauma or positive associations they experienced in their youth, sometimes it's rooted in insecurities, sometimes culture.... There are many possibilities.


    a few hints on how to politely behave when someone who has a sometimes overwhelming personality is boring them with details because the person is nice, and she likes them, but wishes for some peace and quiet
    Solitude is probably the best solution. Eventually they'll either get the hint or find someone more present to blab at.

  8. #28
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    and to answer the question, my general approach has always been to steer the conversation to a topic that I find more interesting... take control of the conversation! I KNOW that you can make small talk, I've seen you do it in text many times, just pretend that she's a stranger (or more interestingly, a pirate! ) and chat away.

    Talk to her and explain that sometimes you need some peace and quiet for the good of everyone... tell her that always socializing to you is the same as NEVER socializing to her... most ESFJs I've known are rather understanding if you lay everything out on the table that way
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #29
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Talk to her and explain that sometimes you need some peace and quiet for the good of everyone... tell her that always socializing to you is the same as NEVER socializing to her... most ESFJs I've known are rather understanding if you lay everything out on the table that way
    That's the thing with ESFJs that I've seen -- they might seem intimidating and have their minds made up, but average reasonable ones adjust their behavior to make things work, if you engage them and explain to them what you need. They just sometimes don't recognize what you need, on their own.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #30
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    I work with an ESFJ. He's a good guy and we get along alright, but I don't really relate that well.

    Most of our "relating" comes through the work we do together. Other attempts to relate like talking about common interests, girls (ie. male bonding), hobbies are variable. Sometimes he likes to talk about stuff that doesn't seem to really have to do with the work at hand, or is redundant, or he just wants to be saying something. It can be funny, but sometimes distracting.

    If I told him "I don't relate to you that well" he'd probably be really offended, even though we basically get along alright. He wants to be well liked and any threat to that: real, perceived, sometimes realistic or not tends to be met poorly.

    If this is someone you live with, then it's ok to just spend time apart or find an activity to bond over. Just let them know you generally like them and things will probably be ok.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

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