User Tag List

First 678910 Last

Results 71 to 80 of 149

  1. #71
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sui generis View Post
    I understand where you're coming from, but I still think the question was based in prejudice. If you weren't prejudiced against SJs, you might have worded it more like "So what's it like being an SJ?", instead of automatically assuming it sucks.

    actually, no assumptions were made. in fact, the reason for the post was that it would be prejudiced if I just assumed it sucked and left it at that. from the outside, what I see in the majority of SJs is people who are very routine focused and frequently work extremely long days. lots of them I know are also very hard on themselves, so my thought was "wow, that sucks, I don't know how anyone could do that" but then I thought "wait maybe it doesn't suck for them, perhaps they actually like it". one could liken it more to a scientist having a poorly educated hypothesis. I will say that I am still amazed at how many SJs (and NJs) can work for such long periods of time without feeling stressed. personally, even if it's something I like, I need frequent breaks if I am to work more than 6 hours.

    in truth, I mistook being hard working and routine driven for being rigid, much in the same way that non NPs often misinterpret Ne as stereotyping and putting them in boxes (we tend to make very general statements and assume that people know that we know that their are plenty of exeptions. correct me if I'm wrong, but Js as a whole tend to make more "certain" statements or ask a question while NPs would rather guess and gather input based on the response to this guess. the trouble with this tactic is obviously when people don't know that you're guessing). this of course, does not appear to be the case. come to think of it, my question really should have been asked to Js a whole and not just SJs.

  2. #72
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    posted by Orangey
    Really, what is so hard about this? I said that the OP was self-glorifying because it was essentially a rhetorical question. I gave an argument which pointed out why I thought this was the case (namely, that he had answered his own question already in the OP.) People responded telling me that he did not intend to insult SJs, and that he genuinely did want to find out about Si. The former is, as I've said above, irrelevant to my claim, and the latter is nothing other than a counter-assertion lacking in evidence to back it up (and it's also irrelevant.)
    I'm afraid I can't see the logic in posting a rhetorical question as a thread title. the "answers" I gave were more like hypothesis, albeit this was poorly explained. as a rule of thumb, most NPs absolutely abhor rhetorical questions. I think most NPs would agree with me that we frequently feel deprived of quality conversation and would rather use a question to spur conversation than to cut it off (at least in the initial stages. using a "Te bitchslap" to cut off a poisonous conversation often involves a few rhetorical and non rhetorical questions of various degrees of harshness).

    posted by Orangey
    Maybe we should start using some "personal opinion" tags so that other people will know that, because it's a personal opinion, it's therefore not open to criticism like "real" opinions are. The "personal" part makes all the difference, I know.
    actually, I think this is a wonderful idea

  3. #73
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Which makes your opinion open to my criticism.
    I never said it wasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Ok, so while we are at it...No Rhetorical Questions. Its offensive to some members as well because of what it implicitly implies
    You're being dense. It's not because it was a rhetorical question that it's "offensive," it's what being a rhetorical question means in the context of a thread in which an answerable question was claimed to have been asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Why dont we extend it further...members of this forum are not allowed to state a personal opinion of how they see things before asking a question as it reaks of implicit self-glorification.
    I never said it wasn't allowed, I just said it was stupid. And again, his personal opinion of SJs (or their condition, or whatever the hell he is talking about) was never my direct point of concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    I also dont see him comparing SJs to himself in the OP, is that an implicit thing as well.
    No, it's pretty much direct. He said he would die if he, an ENFP, were an SJ because, unlike ENFPs, SJs have a little Si voice in their heads telling them, "'you're supposed to do this' 'it's your duty to do that' 'RULES!!!'" He even later on admitted that he was talking about being an SJ from the perspective of being an ENFP (i.e., comparing.)

    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Any more rules to keep from being offensive? This wee little Fe of mine is not so great at social rules.
    Where did you get that I was proposing rules? Don't be histrionic.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    I mean seriosuly...it sucks to be an ISTP at times.
    It does? If anything, it only sucks to be XXXX type if XXXX type finds itself in circumstances unbefitting to its way of being, in which case it doesn't so much suck to be XXXX type as it sucks to be in that situation as an XXXX type. And if it does feel like it sucks to be XXXX type regardless of circumstances, then it probably has more to do with the mental health of the individual than it does with the type. Hence why it would only suck to be SJ (especially for the reasons listed in the OP) if you were an ENFP (or some other type) projecting your prejudicial understanding of SJs onto SJs themselves (or if you were a self-hating SJ.)

    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Maybe I am reading it wrong, but I simply read...."Is it hard to be ISTJ at times?". That is what I implicitly got out of the whole OP and is what I read between the lines. I dont see that as offensive.
    That's fine for you.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #74
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    posted by Orangey

    actually, I think this is a wonderful idea
    You would.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    actually, no assumptions were made. in fact, the reason for the post was that it would be prejudiced if I just assumed it sucked and left it at that. from the outside, what I see in the majority of SJs is people who are very routine focused and frequently work extremely long days. lots of them I know are also very hard on themselves, so my thought was "wow, that sucks, I don't know how anyone could do that" but then I thought "wait maybe it doesn't suck for them, perhaps they actually like it". one could liken it more to a scientist having a poorly educated hypothesis. I will say that I am still amazed at how many SJs (and NJs) can work for such long periods of time without feeling stressed. personally, even if it's something I like, I need frequent breaks if I am to work more than 6 hours.

    in truth, I mistook being hard working and routine driven for being rigid, much in the same way that non NPs often misinterpret Ne as stereotyping and putting them in boxes (we tend to make very general statements and assume that people know that we know that their are plenty of exeptions. correct me if I'm wrong, but Js as a whole tend to make more "certain" statements or ask a question while NPs would rather guess and gather input based on the response to this guess. the trouble with this tactic is obviously when people don't know that you're guessing). this of course, does not appear to be the case. come to think of it, my question really should have been asked to Js a whole and not just SJs.
    Alright, I'll leave off it for now. Perhaps some more SJs will jump in to say "no, it doesn't suck to be SJ," and your new-found understanding that it does not, in fact, suck to be SJ will grow exponentially.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #75
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    I'm gonna re-post the second half of my last post because it was responded to before I added in the second part:
    Really, what is so hard about this? I said that the OP was self-glorifying because it was essentially a rhetorical question. I gave an argument which pointed out why I thought this was the case (namely, that he had answered his own question already in the OP.) People responded telling me that he did not intend to insult SJs, and that he genuinely did want to find out about Si. The former is, as I've said above, irrelevant to my claim, and the latter is nothing other than a counter-assertion lacking in evidence to back it up (and it's also irrelevant.)
    I'm afraid I can't see the logic in posting a rhetorical question as a thread title. the "answers" I gave were more like hypothesis, albeit this was poorly explained. as a rule of thumb, most NPs absolutely abhor rhetorical questions. I think most NPs would agree with me that we frequently feel deprived of quality conversation and would rather use a question to spur conversation than to cut it off (at least in the initial stages. using a "Te bitchslap" to cut off a poisonous conversation often involves a few rhetorical and non rhetorical questions of various degrees of harshness).

  6. #76
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Okay, so finally we're somewhat on the same page, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I'm afraid I can't see the logic in posting a rhetorical question as a thread title.
    Neither can I, except as a way to covertly accomplish other motives. That's a big reason why I thought what I thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    the "answers" I gave were more like hypothesis, albeit this was poorly explained.
    I see. I suppose I discounted the possibility that you genuinely did not know that it probably would not suck, for the reasons you stated, to be an SJ (since it seems painfully obvious to me.) That's why I deduced that, if you already knew the answer to your own question, you must have had other motivations for starting the thread. I guess I gave you too much credit.

    At any rate, as you've directly clarified your intentions in terms of what I was saying, I'll take your word for it and be off.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #77
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I see. I suppose I discounted the possibility that you genuinely did not know that it probably would not suck, for the reasons you stated, to be an SJ (since it seems painfully obvious to me.) That's why I deduced that, if you already knew the answer to your own question, you must have had other motivations for starting the thread. I guess I gave you too much credit.
    Hanlon's razor:

    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

    I think that might be the lesson to take away from this thread.

  8. #78
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I never said it wasn't.



    You're being dense. It's not because it was a rhetorical question that it's "offensive," it's what being a rhetorical question means in the context of a thread in which an answerable question was claimed to have been asked.



    I never said it wasn't allowed, I just said it was stupid. And again, his personal opinion of SJs (or their condition, or whatever the hell he is talking about) was never my direct point of concern.



    No, it's pretty much direct. He said he would die if he, an ENFP, were an SJ because, unlike ENFPs, SJs have a little Si voice in their heads telling them, "'you're supposed to do this' 'it's your duty to do that' 'RULES!!!'" He even later on admitted that he was talking about being an SJ from the perspective of being an ENFP (i.e., comparing.)



    Where did you get that I was proposing rules? Don't be histrionic.



    It does? If anything, it only sucks to be XXXX type if XXXX type finds itself in circumstances unbefitting to its way of being, in which case it doesn't so much suck to be XXXX type as it sucks to be in that situation as an XXXX type. And if it does feel like it sucks to be XXXX type regardless of circumstances, then it probably has more to do with the mental health of the individual than it does with the type. Hence why it would only suck to be SJ (especially for the reasons listed in the OP) if you were an ENFP (or some other type) projecting your prejudicial understanding of SJs onto SJs themselves (or if you were a self-hating SJ.)



    That's fine for you.
    You sure your not INTP? (dont answer...its a rhetorical question[and not poking fun at the OPs rhetorical question or anything else in this discussion in regard to rhetorical questions{I cant think of any other warnings...oh...let me highlight in green])

  9. #79
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    I don't believe we ever agreed that the safe color would be green, dammit.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #80
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I don't believe we ever agreed that the safe color would be green, dammit.
    but I chiseled it in stone already

Similar Threads

  1. Does it suck not being me?
    By prplchknz in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-13-2011, 04:04 PM
  2. [SJ] If you had to be an SJ, which type would you be and why?
    By Moiety in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 107
    Last Post: 09-12-2010, 08:59 PM
  3. [INFJ] To Other Types: How does it feel when an INFJ gives you the (super) cold shoulder?
    By fill in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 10-03-2009, 06:23 AM
  4. [NF] NFs (or anyone who wants to answer, it will be an advice party, wee champagne!)
    By prplchknz in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-05-2008, 02:28 PM
  5. [SJ] Being an SJ teen
    By Ezra in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 08-29-2008, 06:51 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO