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  1. #41
    Senior Member uberrogo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    Does it ever get hard having that Si voice in your head constantly being like "you're supposed to do this" "it's your duty to do that" "RULES!!!".
    The only time it sucks to not enjoy the structure of rules that I can think of at the moment is: when I do not like the rule, or if the rule was changed in a way beyond my control. Like if I was going to a party and it turned into a costume party as I was driving there and I couldn't get a costume in time. Something along those lines.
    If Men's Health magazine was true, you would never need to buy more than one issue.

  2. #42
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    No, I read all of your posts very thoroughly. Nothing I've said is as a result of not having read or comprehended your words. To comment on intentions is not literally to repeat back what someone says, but rather to "read between the lines." Isn't that something you, as an NF, should know?
    Sure, you've said the words "I don't mean to offend," or "I'm not trying to be derogatory," but as Emectar pointed out, your original post was senseless because it would only "suck to be an SJ" if you were viewing it through an NF lens. Therefore, your intention couldn't possibly have been to actually find anything out, since you've already assumed from the start what it's like to have Si in the first or second position, and explained exactly why that would suck. Why, if you were genuinely interested in knowing about what Si is like, would you already presume that it sucks, or that it's stressful? In the first place, how would you know, other than by projecting onto Si traits that you see as undesirable? And if you did know, then why even ask the question? That leads me to suspicion that you really just wanted another opportunity to rail on about how great your own type is by comparison, because you're not similarly constrained by "rules" and "duty" (even though the rules thing is more Te than Si, if anything, but I digress) and it gives you a sense of superiority to point that out (since that is something you clearly value about yourself.)
    As another poster pointed out, it's like going to an NAACP convention, asking "doesn't it suck to be black?" and then, after being called out on it, rationalizing by saying "well, I didn't mean for it to be offensive." It doesn't matter what you say after that because no amount of rationalizing is going to make the inherent offensiveness of what you said disappear.
    1st bold: it's wonderful you want to excercise your NF side and read between the lines, but please do so correctly if you're intending on doing so, especially when you are using it to accuse someone.
    2nd bold: that's exactly right, having Si as a primary of second function LOOKS like it would suck to me because I've been viewing it through the lense of an ENFP. I know now that most people who are SJ don't seem to think so, and that's the kind of answer I was looking for.
    3rd bold: I haven't assumed anything. that's why the title of this thread is a question and not a statement. I simply stated how SJs appeared to me and asked if people who actually are SJs feel the same way. they apparently don't, I have learned what I set to learn from this thread.
    4th bold: "leads me to the suspicion". that is completely different from what you said in your first post. acusing someone's integrity based on a "suspicion" is extremely irresponsible.
    5th bold: derailing people DETRACTS from superiority. it doesn't add to it. superiority is all about inegrity. you are correct, superiority is extremely important to me, hence why my incentive is against derailing people and not for it.
    6th bold: I am not rationalizing. I'm telling the truth. and if someone is irationally offended by me asking an honest question and telling the truth, they need to work on being more open minded, more understanding and less judgemental

  3. #43
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    That leads me to suspicion that you really just wanted another opportunity to rail on about how great your own type is by comparison, because you're not similarly constrained by "rules" and "duty" (even though the rules thing is more Te than Si, if anything, but I digress) and it gives you a sense of superiority to point that out (since that is something you clearly value about yourself.)
    so this was your intention. it has nothing to do with this thread. you seem to believe (please correct me if I'm wrong, but my gut is very strong on this one) that I'm arrogant and that I think other people are beneath me. if that's the case and you are trully and ISTP, it seems clear that you are resorting to character assassination via the negative form of Fe that comes out when TP types are under stress.

  4. #44
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    6th bold: I am not rationalizing. I'm telling the truth. and if someone is irationally offended by me asking an honest question and telling the truth, they need to work on being more open minded, more understanding and less judgemental
    Really? Really? Telling SJs suck to their face and them getting offended has nothing to do with the fact you told them they suck? It has everything to do with them not being open minded. Give me a break
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  5. #45
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    Really? Really? Telling SJs suck to their face and them getting offended has nothing to do with the fact you told them they suck? It has everything to do with them not being open minded. Give me a break
    I didn't say they sucked. I was under the (now I know false) impression that it sucked to be one. this is not the same thing. perhaps this medaphor will help you understand what I mean

    Do black people who lived during the Southern Reconstruction suck?
    Obvious answer: no, they were just as intelligent and good natured people as their white bretheren

    HOWEVER

    Would it suck to be a black person during this period?
    probable answer: yes. immensly so people pushed them into the dirt, they had no rights, people didn't respect them, and they had the constant fear of being lynched hanging over their head. it has nothing to do with them as people, but being black in those circumstances would almost certainly stuck.

    this is an incredibly extreme example, but it gets the point across. I was under the (again, quite false) impression that life was a lot harder for SJs, so I asked if they felt the same way, which they apparently don't.

  6. #46
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I'm not the biggest Keirsey fan, but he certainly titled his book right. "Please Understand Me"

    And Myer's is similar.. "Gifts Differing".

    Typology was never meant to give anyone the excuse of being exclusive or merely to understand themselves. Once you find out your type (more or less), it's assumed that you're going to read of the "rest of the book". And not just read one chapter, walk away, and think other types are equal to death.

  7. #47
    Junior Member Jem11899's Avatar
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    First off, I love being an SJ. I love caring about people and knowing that by doing my best every day I will help others. I love being a guardian. That's why I am one! I am who I want to be, and I'm getting better at it every day.
    Now, I know that there are weaknesses to every type. I know that people push me around sometimes. I know that I'm uptight sometimes. I know that I'm a stick in the mud sometimes. But, THAT'S OKAY. I love to care. I love to protect. I love being an SJ!
    I think that sometimes we can get a little confused how some people can have different perspectives. I know a lot of rationalist (NTs) that think that I'm a little dumb because I take some crap from people. I know a lot of idealist (NFs), who think I'm a little tense because I care about rules, grades and other people's opinions.( I mean, I know that idealist care about that kind of stuff too, but, I think that SJs care to the point that it stresses them out a lot more than NFs.)
    I know that it can be difficult to understand how we LIKE rules and standards to guide our lives. Or how we LIKE to be by ourselves sometimes. Or how we DON'T like conflict. Other types of course don't like conflict, for some reason or another. However, ISFJs don't like it to the extent that they take some crap to avoid confrontation or contention. Taking responsibility and holding to obligations, while still caring deeply, these are just some examples of what ISFJs do.
    In your opinion, yes. It would be a living nightmare to wake up an ISFJ. Because its not you. But, we LIKE it. So, I can say, sometimes, it SUCKS to be anyone. Everyone has weaknesses because of "just the way they are".
    For example, I think ENFPs are awesome (they're just so nice and relatable). However, It would SUCK to be you (no offense).
    To me, and to my imagination hopefully many people on this forum, are PROUD and HAPPY to be a guardian to our family, friends and to society.
    Hurrah for differences! Hurrah for types! Hurrah for individuality! Hurrah for Guardians! Hurrah for Artisans! Hurrah for Rationalists! Hurrah for Idealists!

  8. #48
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    I can't say what its like being an SJ, but I can say with certainty that my life would sure be sucky were I not lucky enough to know the amazing SJs that I do.
    the formless thing which gives things form!
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  9. #49
    don't fence me in sui generis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    my general point being, that it would suck for an NP to be an SJ. good thing we're not.

    we should leave that to the experts
    I think that NFPs are awesome, and they're great friends, but I wouldn't trade personalities with any of y'all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    Doesn't it suck being an NF who is constantly ruled by your own emotions and has no rhyme or reason to any of their actions?

    Oh look. I can use extreme typology stereotypes, too.


    No. It doesn't suck being an SJ.


    Yeah, doesn't it suck to be flighty and not dependable and emotionally labile? Works both ways.


    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Elfboy, it is plainly obvious that the ONLY motivation you could have had when making this thread was to flatter yourself. You are not interested in finding out the differences between types, but rather you simply wanted to use this as an excuse to point out how awesome you are in comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Being an SJ doesn't make you automatically popular, well-adjusted or conformist (or "normal"). Depression happens in SJs, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emectar View Post
    SJ's probably feel as though theyd go crazy from lack of order if they had to be an ENFP
    QFT

    I love it when other people get to the thread first and say smart things, and all I have to do is quote them.
    Murphy Brown: What is it with us? Why can't we take the easy road once in awhile?
    Avery Brown: Because it's boring and dishonest and uncomfortable, like wearing a pair of shoes all day that pinch your feet.

    approx 55% ES, 90% TJ

  10. #50
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Orangey, while I agree that the social filters of Elfboy need adjusting, your intuiting of his motivations isn't exactly very politically correct either. He's said that that is hardly his intention, and it would be decent of you to accept that statement as the truth unless you have some irrefutable proof of the opposite.
    I've provided my argument, and I've stated why it doesn't really matter what he says his intentions were. If he was not intentionally seeking to do what I've characterized him as doing, so much the worse for him. It just means he was unintentionally being obtuse. All that aside, though, I do not believe that I owe him any special consideration because, according to you, he's some excitable, socially 'tarded ENFP releasing his burning curiosity. Or are you really suggesting that I lay off because you think you can relate to him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    1st bold: it's wonderful you want to excercise your NF side and read between the lines, but please do so correctly if you're intending on doing so, especially when you are using it to accuse someone.
    When I said "isn't that something you, as an NF, should know?" I was making fun of you, not really suggesting that reading between the lines is an NF thing to do. Oh dear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    2nd bold: that's exactly right, having Si as a primary of second function LOOKS like it would suck to me because I've been viewing it through the lense of an ENFP. I know now that most people who are SJ don't seem to think so, and that's the kind of answer I was looking for.
    In the first place, I don't know why, from the perspective of ANY type, you would think that it would suck to be an SJ. Second, if you knew that SJs would probably not think that it sucks to be them, then why would you ask? You make so little sense it confounds me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    3rd bold: I haven't assumed anything. that's why the title of this thread is a question and not a statement. I simply stated how SJs appeared to me and asked if people who actually are SJs feel the same way. they apparently don't, I have learned what I set to learn from this thread.
    First you asked if it sucks being an SJ. Then you said, "does it ever get hard having that Si voice in your head constantly being like 'you're supposed to do this' 'it's your duty to do that' 'RULES!!!,' stating directly the reasons that you already believed would make it difficult being an SJ. Then you turned around, despite having already answered your own question, and asked "what's it like to have Si as your first or second function?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    4th bold: "leads me to the suspicion". that is completely different from what you said in your first post. acusing someone's integrity based on a "suspicion" is extremely irresponsible.
    Not really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    5th bold: derailing people DETRACTS from superiority. it doesn't add to it. superiority is all about inegrity. you are correct, superiority is extremely important to me, hence why my incentive is against derailing people and not for it.
    Derailing? What are you talking about? I said "rail." Also, superiority is all about integrity? Your "incentive" is against derailing people? Hold it...are you a native English speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    6th bold: I am not rationalizing. I'm telling the truth. and if someone is irationally offended by me asking an honest question and telling the truth, they need to work on being more open minded, more understanding and less judgemental
    If you're being honest, then what you said in the OP was honestly stupid. It really doesn't matter either way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I didn't say they sucked. I was under the (now I know false) impression that it sucked to be one. this is not the same thing. perhaps this medaphor will help you understand what I mean

    Do black people who lived during the Southern Reconstruction suck?
    Obvious answer: no, they were just as intelligent and good natured people as their white bretheren

    HOWEVER

    Would it suck to be a black person during this period?
    probable answer: yes. immensly so people pushed them into the dirt, they had no rights, people didn't respect them, and they had the constant fear of being lynched hanging over their head. it has nothing to do with them as people, but being black in those circumstances would almost certainly stuck.

    this is an incredibly extreme example, but it gets the point across. I was under the (again, quite false) impression that life was a lot harder for SJs, so I asked if they felt the same way, which they apparently don't.
    Oh boy. Where to start. First off, it wouldn't be a "medaphor," it would be an analogy. Second, the analogy is a bad one. To say that "it would suck to be black during the reconstruction" is different than saying "it would suck to be SJ" because, for the former, the reason it would suck is because of external circumstances, while for the latter, it would suck because that's who they are. The statement "it would suck to be black during the reconstruction" is more analogous to "it would suck to be SJ in an NF environment," or something to that effect. So...wrong, wrong, wrong.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

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